Received an email about the new "Heritage Classic" class from SCCA for all of us guys running "old" cars that can't compete with the more modern cars of today.

I always thought it was a bunch of BS that SCCA had this rule if the car was over 30yrs old it was automatically put in a prepared class even if it was stock. This now give guys with more stock 914's (and other vintage stock) a chance to compete against equal cars. EDIT reading the rules there is A LOT you can do to your 914 and still run in this class. Looks to be a few different levels to the Heritage Classic class

Below is the email I received:

As of March 19th, a new supplemental solo class has been formed - Heritage Classic. The intent of this class is to provide a place for older technology cars to compete without the fear of being overrun by the new, high tech offerings that often exceed what was possible 40 or more years ago. Many names were considered but the final decision by Howard Duncan was to call it "Heritage Classic". This name is consistent with the theme and intent of the class and the recently formed "Classic American Muscle" category. While there has been a list of cars established the committee is interested in hearing requests for cars not on the list that would like to be included.

For more details go to the Solo section and look in "Cars and Rules". If you don't see a car on the list that you think should be included and want to come and play, let Howard or Doug Gill know through the SCCA web site. Preparation rules are also listed.

If you think it would be of interest to someone you know please spread the word.

Rationale: The purpose of Heritage Classic (HC) is to enable enthusiasts of sports cars and sedans from the early years of the SCCA to participate at SCCA Solo events with cars of similar technology. This participation can range from those wanting to see these cars in a competition setting, to those just wanting to drive their classic car aggressively, to those seeking serious competition. The core objective is to provide a fun experience for Heritage Classic car enthusiasts.

Background: These cars from the 1940’s through the 1970’s are an important part of the history of not only the SCCA, but of the American automotive scene and are worthy of being a part of the SCCA today so this history is not forgotten. The Heritage Classic class is intended to encourage the use and enjoyment of these cars by their owners and other event attendees. As such, the rules represent a level of car preparation that reflects the halcyon competitive days of these cars ‐ the mid‐1970s. This rule set time frame has been purposely selected to attract Production cars and Sedans of this era, as currently no other national organization offers an opportunity for these cars to compete in this configuration as typically the rules are either limited to 1972 and earlier versions OR these heritage vehicles must compete against more modern technology vehicles.

Invitation: SCCA Regions are encouraged to offer the Heritage Classic class as a way to entice avid enthusiasts who still have, or wish to build, race prepared cars of this era to bring their cars to your autocross site. This will provide an opportunity for members of the SCCA, auto enthusiasts, and the general public to enjoy watching and/or driving these foundational cars and join the fun at your SCCA Solo® events!

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing, Garold.

Maybe my car will be competitive again.

Hummm.....
When the National Tour came to the PNW every year, we would wait to see where the most competiton was at in XP or E-Mod.....then enter in the most competitive class.

Fun is where you find it.

I was looking into this. Looks like big bore or stroker cranks are out.

right this is after most of us have modded the snot out of the poor old 914 to play in Prepared of mod classes. Now we still can't play because ............ stockish 914's are getting rare.
Ah screw it. I am getting another shifter kart.

A stock motor wouldn't be competitive in this class. You would have to modify the crap out of a stock displacement with an overbore. Camshaft, compression, and induction are unlimited if I recall correctly. I think there were some camshaft and head porting limitations in L2 prep.

Welcome to vintage racing!

The appendix doesn't list the 2.0L, only the 1.7 & 1.8. Also, looks like maximum carb size is 40. Otherwise, the rules for Heritage Classic Prepared mimic D Prepared pretty close. I'm going to email Howard to see why the 2.0L was excluded.

I've lobbied for 2.0L inclusion into this class. In addition to the smaller carbs, the maximum wheel width of 8" will define these cars from D Prepared. Still, it would not a huge hurdle to de-prep for Heritage Classic.

Reno SCCA has had a vintage class for years. Most of the locals run newish cars. There are a half dozen or so of what I would call Vintage Classic cars. I have run my 240z against them and done well, I suspect the 914 would do better as the suspension is much more highly developed.

Here's version 2 of the proposed rules set for SCCA Solo Heritage Classic...

HERITAGE CLASSIC

Rationale: The purpose of Heritage Classic (HC) is to enable enthusiasts of sports cars, coupes, and sedans from the early years of the SCCA to participate at SCCA Solo events with cars of similar technology. This participation can range from those just wanting to drive these cars in a competition setting, to those wanting to drive their classic car aggressively for a trophy position. The core objective is to provide a fun experience at the local level for Heritage Classic car enthusiasts through SCCA Regions offering this opportunity using a common set of rules.
Background: These cars from the 1940s through the early 1970s are an important part of the history of not only the SCCA, but of the American automotive scene and are worthy of being a part of the SCCA today so this history is not forgotten. The Heritage Classic category is intended to encourage the use and enjoyment of these cars by their owners and other event attendees.
Eligible Vehicles: Vehicle must be from model year 1974 or older and not produced by a United States based manufacturer. Models newer than 1974, but of the same generation as the 1974 model, are allowed. EXAMPLE: a 1978 MGB would be eligible. Vehicle must pass the mandatory safety inspection (tech) and be in compliance with Section 3, of the current SCCA® National Solo® Rules
Classes: There are two classes; Heritage Classic Street (HCS) and Heritage Classic Race (HCR). HCS is for street legal vehicles to compete on street tires. HCR is for race prepared vehicles to compete on any tires. Additional safety requirements will apply to HCR.

Heritage Classic Street (HCS)
General Information
• Vehicle must be considered “street legal” with normal road touring equipment (lights, wipers, etc.) and capable of being licensed for normal road use in the United States.
• YET to be DONE: research Section 13 of the Solo Rules to determine what allowances could be condensed into simpler/shorter rule language in order to avoid issues later on small items.

Body Allowances
• Body panels may be replaced with an OE equivalent and fenders may be flared.
• Interior panels (door panels, kick panels, etc.) and headliner may be replaced with an OE equivalent and must cover any opening(s) the original panel(s) concealed.
• Dash may be modified to accommodate alternate or additional gauges and switches, but must be complete and cover the original area.
• Front splitter, air dam, and/or spoiler may be added below the bumper, but must not extend past the perimeter of the body.

Wheel and Tire Allowances
• Any metallic wheels are allowed. Wheel width is limited to a maximum of 8”.
• Any DOT‐approved tires with a UTQG Treadwear Grade of 200 or higher are permitted. Tires must also meet other requirements in Section 13.3 of the Solo rules.

Body Electrical System Allowances
• Components and wiring are unrestricted.

Brake System Allowances
• Components, lines and hoses are unrestricted except that rotors and drums must remain in original position (outboard vs. inboard) and be of ferrous metal.

Suspension and Steering Allowances
• Alternate springs are allowed, but must be of the same type as OE and attach at original locations.
• Lever shock absorbers may be modified or replaced with tube shocks unless they also serve as suspension component such as a control arm (Example; front shocks on an MGB).
• Alternate bushings may be used in original location.

Engine and Drive Train Allowances
• Engine may be updated to any available from the manufacturer for that model through its generations. EXAMPLE: a 1275 cc engine from a late model Sprite/Midget may be used in a Bugeye Sprite, however, a Spitfire or MGB motor would NOT be allowed
• Engine must be externally stock appearing.
• Engine internals are free. Intake system must be same type as OE (fuel injection or carbs) Any carb or intake manifold maybe used. Any fuel injection system can be used. Modern electronic ignitions are allowed, provided they are timed by the distributor. (No crank fire ignition)
• Rocker arms must remain stock ratio. Aftermarket roller or ratio rockers are not allowed.
• Exhaust manifold and exhaust system may be replaced with alternate components
• Original drivetrain layout must be preserved.


Heritage Classic Race (HCR)
General Information
• Unless authorized in the HCS rules above or by the allowances below for HCR, the vehicle must be
unmodified from original configuration.

Body and Chassis Allowances
• All interior trim, dash boards, gauges, floor covering, carpet, upholstery panels, and similar non‐performance comfort or convenience items may be removed or replaced.
• All windows may be replaced with polycarbonate material. Polycarbonate windshields must have a
minimum thickness of 0.125”. All window channels and window winding mechanisms may be
removed. Windshield wipers and washers may be removed.
• On open cars windshields and windshield frames may be removed. On closed cars all side windows may
be removed.
• Headlights, mirrors, exterior lights and trim, grills and bumpers may be removed.
• Driver’s seat may be replaced or relocated within 12” of the stock location, other seats may be removed.
• Body must maintain recognizable external features of the manufacturer’s make and model.
• Chassis, frame, or subframe may be reinforced or notched.
• Inner fender panels and trunk floors may be removed.
• Fuel tank/cell may be modified, replaced or relocated and must be separated from the driver/passengers as originally manufactured or by a metal panel/bulkhead.
• Fuel must not vent into the driver/passenger compartment directly or indirectly.
• Rear spoiler may be added, but may extend no more than 8” from the original body or past the perimeter of the body. No rear wings may be added except OE or equivalent.
• All open cars on racing slicks will at a minimum be required to have a roll bar installed meeting the requirements of Appendix C of the Solo Rules. GCR legal roll cages are allowed.

Wheel and Tire Allowances
• Wheel width is limited to a maximum of 8”. (Unnecessary if HCS wheels are similarly restricted.)
• Non DOT approved tires are allowed.

Suspension and Steering Allowances
• Components and method of attachment are unrestricted.

Brake System Allowances
• Components, lines and hoses are unrestricted except that rotors and drums must remain in original position (outboard vs. inboard) and be of ferrous metal. (Unnecessary if HCS brakes are similarly restricted.)



Engine Allowances
• Same engine rules as HCS, except for the following.
• Engines must be of the original type; size and design as originally provided by the manufacturer and mounts must remain in the correct location. Blocks and heads must be of the same material and design as provided by the manufacturer. Modern aftermarket blocks and heads are prohibited unless they are identical (material and design) to the originals.
• The standard stroke must be retained.
• The block may be rebored no more than 0.0472” (1.2 mm) over standard.  The resultant displacement
increase shall not be included in the weight calculation for the car.
• Aftermarket roller or ratio rockers are allowed.
• Cooling system components may be modified or replaced.
• Emission control components and systems may be removed.
• Alternators/generators may be modified or removed.
• Battery may be modified or relocated.
• Any ignition system may be used.
• Wet sump may not be converted to dry sump. Any accumulator (Accusump) may be used.

Drive Train Allowances
• Same rules as HCS, except for the following.
• Transmission/transaxle, mounts, clutch and clutch housing, driveshaft(s), joints, rear axle and final
drives may be modified or replaced.

Minimum Weights
Engine displacement of 900-1050 cc: 1.35 lbs/cc
Engine displacement of 1051-1450 cc: 1.20 lbs/cc
Engine displacement of 1451-1900 cc: 1.05 lbs/cc
Engine displacement of 1901 cc and up: 1.00 lbs/cc

Weight Adjustments (lbs):
Front wheel drive: -50

NOTE: These weight formulas are subject to revision within or at the conclusion of each year.

Additional Vehicles
A GCR-legal Formula Vee is eligible to compete in the Heritage Classic Race (HCR) class.

Excluded Vehicles
The following Makes/Models are not eligible to compete in the Heritage Classic Race (HCR) class:


Elva
Courier all
Lotus
Elan all
Europa all
Super 7 all
Turner
950S and 1500
TVR
1800
V8

Great. Looks like I will be moving over HCR for 2016.

V2 does look better. The issues with my car will be wheel width (10" rears), weight and displacement. DP allows 10% bore increase in 4-valve per cylinder cars and it would have been nice to carry that over to HCR. I'm really liking my 2056 and not wanting to do another build to make class.

Update -

The Dixie Region SCCA has activated HC for the Dixie Championship Tour with the understanding that there's a minimum of three entries for trophies.

Brian Hamer at the SCCA basically said that if you don't see HC (or HCS or HCR later) available at registration, go to the event officials and make a request. Which is exactly what I did with the Dixie Region.

I've had several conversations with Craig Way who has been instrumental in forming these classes. The version 2 rules set which stipulates HC Street and HC Race has not been accepted at this time. I'll participate in HC with my current set-up and let other participants know of my non-compliance. If they have issues, I'll move to XP for that event. Once version 2 rules are instituted, I'll be able make the changes needed to be compliant. It just takes some time and $$$.

Looks like HCR may be the place for my car should I ever manage to breathe life back into it! Very encouraging!



-Josh

Actually, HCS seems the best playground. SP/ST suspension, Prod motor internals with SP/ST like induction.

The 8" wheel width on 200 rated tires means the high power cars won't be able to put it down. Seems a good fit for the teener!

-Josh

It's a done deal. HCS and HCR rules set are official

Heritage Classic SCCA Solo rules 2016

WooHoo!

So I talked to Howard this morning, and the class was modeled a lot in the same way CAMS was. The engine allowance is the one that looked like a slippery slope. Engine must look original, but can have any intake or exhaust (no turbos). So the way I read it, I can build a bored out, big valve, high compressing monster with ITB fuel injection, as long as I don't modify the cooling tins or the external case/heads. That being said, there is a definite limit to what kind of motor is reasonable in the class, given the 8" max wheel width and 200 treadwear minimum.... How much power can one use on 225 width 200 UTOG tires? Probably not too terribly much.

So the question I pose here is... What would an appropriate motor be given the tire/wheel restrictions?

Thoughts? Ideas?

I imagine more than a mildly warmed over 2056, but how much more?

As far I read the rules, a 914 built to SP allowances with an HCS motor would be spectacular. And with 225 width 200 UTOG tires, less risk of tearing the rear suspension mounts...

-Josh

HCS the engine must have induction the same as OE (carbs or fuel injection). HCR same but over-bore allowed up to 1.2mm. That doesn't seem right as most everyone replaces the FI with carbs for racing. The 1.2mm over-bore would disqualify 96 mm jugs. You'd have to use 95 mm. Basically I'm bringing my 2056 FAT Performance build 44 Webers and larger intake valves. It's 140 HP @ 6500 rpm. I think this rules set will need some tweeking moving forward.

Regarding tires in HCS. I'd recommend stuffing the widest 200 UTOG you can on those 8" wheels (depending on flairs or lack there-of) and being mindful of tire pinch. I'm planning on running the 275 x 15 Hoosiers rears I've got on my 10" wheels on the 8" rears. I know they'll fit because I've had that 275 on my 8" fronts already. The guys at the tire shop weren't very happy but they'll get over it

I respectfully disagree. I've played the shoehorn game of pinching the widest tire onto an allowed rim. The only reason people do it in the stock categories is they're camber limited, and the de-cambering in a turn from a softly sprung stock class car can make use of that otherwise unused contact patch. But for a car where you can have a lot of allowance to optimize caster, camber, roll stiffness, etc., you're wasting tire and money by overstuffing big fat tires onto 8" wheels. Most of that additional tire width will never touch the ground. A 225 on an 8" rim is using the most of the tire and providing the best response. A 275 pinched onto an 8" rim will gain you almost nothing in contact patch (the rest will be pulled away from the contact surface as the sidewall is pulled inward to meet the rim), and the response of the tire will decrease significantly. I've experimented with identical size tires on different size rims, and the difference is night and day. Pinching a tire onto an undersize rim is a desperate compromise you strike when you can't fix camber, caster, and roll stiffness. Once fixed, optimize the tire/wheel combination.

- You mention running 275 Hoosiers on 8" wheels though. Those tires wouldn't qualify anyway as their treadwear rating is too low.

The way I read the rules allowance, as long as a fuel injected car remain fuel injected, you can run any FI you want. " Engine internals are free. Intake system must be same type as OE (fuel injection or carbs) Any carb or intake manifold maybe used. Any fuel injection system can be used. Modern electronic ignitions are allowed, provided they are timed by the distributor. (No crank fire ignition) ".

So as long as keep the dizzy, I can run any ITB programmable fuel injection system I want.

Now, this is interpreting the rules are they are -written-, but the HCR rules reference the HCS rules as a starting point, not the other way around. So I would read that as indicating that "Engine internals are free" period. Go nuts. Go broke. The HCR engine rules say "Same engine rules as HCS, except for the following... "

I read that as you can have pretty much any Type IV motor you want provided the block, heads and shrouds are unmolested...

So... back to the original question... How much is too much?

-Josh

[quote name='jhadler' date='Feb 23 2016, 04:47 PM' post='2306966']
I respectfully disagree. I've played the shoehorn game of pinching the widest tire onto an allowed rim. The only reason people do it in the stock categories is they're camber limited, and the de-cambering in a turn from a softly sprung stock class car can make use of that otherwise unused contact patch. But for a car where you can have a lot of allowance to optimize caster, camber, roll stiffness, etc., you're wasting tire and money by overstuffing big fat tires onto 8" wheels. Most of that additional tire width will never touch the ground. A 225 on an 8" rim is using the most of the tire and providing the best response. A 275 pinched onto an 8" rim will gain you almost nothing in contact patch (the rest will be pulled away from the contact surface as the sidewall is pulled inward to meet the rim), and the response of the tire will decrease significantly. I've experimented with identical size tires on different size rims, and the difference is night and day. Pinching a tire onto an undersize rim is a desperate compromise you strike when you can't fix camber, caster, and roll stiffness. Once fixed, optimize the tire/wheel combination.

- You mention running 275 Hoosiers on 8" wheels though. Those tires wouldn't qualify anyway as their treadwear rating is too low.

The way I read the rules allowance, as long as a fuel injected car remain fuel injected, you can run any FI you want. " Engine internals are free. Intake system must be same type as OE (fuel injection or carbs) Any carb or intake manifold maybe used. Any fuel injection system can be used. Modern electronic ignitions are allowed, provided they are timed by the distributor. (No crank fire ignition) ".

So as long as keep the dizzy, I can run any ITB programmable fuel injection system I want.

Now, this is interpreting the rules are they are -written-, but the HCR rules reference the HCS rules as a starting point, not the other way around. So I would read that as indicating that "Engine internals are free" period. Go nuts. Go broke. The HCR engine rules say "Same engine rules as HCS, except for the following... "

I read that as you can have pretty much any Type IV motor you want provided the block, heads and shrouds are unmolested...

So... back to the original question... How much is too much?

-Josh


[quote name='Han Solo' post='2306949' date='Feb 23 2016, 01:57 PM']
[quote name='jhadler' post='2306924' date='Feb 23 2016, 02:34 PM']
So I talked to Howard this morning, and the class was modeled a lot in the same way CAMS was. The engine allowance is the one that looked like a slippery slope. Engine must look original, but can have any intake or exhaust (no turbos). So the way I read it, I can build a bored out, big valve, high compressing monster with ITB fuel injection, as long as I don't modify the cooling tins or the external case/heads. That being said, there is a definite limit to what kind of motor is reasonable in the class, given the 8" max wheel width and 200 treadwear minimum.... How much power can one use on 225 width 200 UTOG tires? Probably not too terribly much.

So the question I pose here is... What would an appropriate motor be given the tire/wheel restrictions?

Thoughts? Ideas?

I imagine more than a mildly warmed over 2056, but how much more?

As far I read the rules, a 914 built to SP allowances with an HCS motor would be spectacular. And with 225 width 200 UTOG tires, less risk of tearing the rear suspension mounts...

-Josh
[/quote]

I'll be competing in HCR so R-comps would be the correct tire I'll assume. With that in mind, I typically run 26 PSI front and 24 PSI rear with excellent contact. I hear you and others regarding pinching tires down to smaller wheels but lap results will tell the story. There are other factors involved in my decision like utilizing tires from last season, cost, etc. So if pinching them doesn't work well, I'll go down a size on the rears on the next set. I like to win as much as the next guy, but budget and my time have a great influence on how I go about enjoying autocross. For me, it's mostly about having a good time at the events in a car that I'm not having to spend 50% of our disposable income on. Besides, I've also got a 931 that needs parts, body work, paint, etc. etc. etc.

Budget rules all in this arena, I totally understand making do with what you've got. Been there more times than I care to count. Still there actually. I was just hoping to head you off in case you were investing afresh, save you some coin... Many of us have done the testing and the comparisons, and pinched tires are always a compromise at best. Usually only worth it, like I mentioned, when you're very limited in suspension optimization (alignment and spring/sway rates). Otherwise, stretching a tire to as wide a rim as you can manage will -always- yield better performance, even if the tire is narrower. Plus, a 225 weighs less than a 275.

Either way, have fun! I'm more and more encouraged by the concept of HCS, and may in fact revive the car because of it!

-Josh

Update on the Heritage Classic classes...

After competing at the Dixie Championship Tour I took the 914 out of service to complete my prep for HCR and be rules compliant. Bogart Racing made smaller outer rings for the 10" Dura Lite rear wheels to get those down to 8" and a new set of A7s. I competed at a TRSCCA regional and didn't miss the extra rear contact patch at all. Then I took delivery on a Tangerine Racing racing cage and worked with a friend to get that installed. Before putting the seats and harnesses in, I added most of the weight to get to the 2056 lb. min.

Meanwhile, 3 months ago, I made a request on the SCCA Solo Nationals page requesting that the HC classes be added to the competing classes. The reply from Brian Hammer was...

"There are no plans to offer those classes at Solo Nationals. HCR and HCS were created to help region's give a class to folks with those cars at regional events."

Solo Nations 2016 comments page

Now that's pretty discouraging. If you'll go to that page you'll also notice a comment from Rocky Entriken comparing last year's National CAM attendance to the "renegade" HC's (in DM). There's some folks that have worked really hard to get these classes set up and the SCCA is basically pulling the rug from under us.

Your thoughts gentlemen?

I can see both sides... you have a 40+ year old car and want a place to play.. SCCA wants to cater to NEW folks and the tuner crowd in many ways... The balance is tough.

I wonder, nationally, how many local regions have an HC/HCR class and what the participation numbers look like and how many of those would then make a trip to Nationals?

Slice the pie so narrow everyone gets a prize?

Our region is a small region (INR 075) with about ~120 members. At any one event we will have 45 - 75 drivers. We compete with getting drivers from Chicago and South Bend Indiana regions. Up to about 2 yrs ago we would have about 7 - 10 cars that would fall into the HC rules. Now it is just me and one other guy. The others have moved on to run just PCA events or just plain quit.

I understand where SCCA national is coming from, but then what is the point of having the class if you can't run at National's? I don't have the time or $$ to run at a National event, but if your goal with HC is to get people with older cars to come out and run then you should offer up a chance to run AND be competitive at a National level.

If you don't offer the class at a National level then you will never really know how many would make the trip, yes?

Anyway that's my 2cents.

Oh and my HCR 73 914

I would think some of the class rules are "grassroots" movements. Area "X" wants a class to run certain types of cars that National doesn't otherwise classify or allow. National says .. ok.. build a class and lets wait and see on how the class works out.

Its conceivable it could grow to a national class.. but nationals already has how many classes? and how many drivers? seems like Hundreds of participants already. Logistically, they would have to consider expanding the event or cutting other classes. Plus many of the national classes are full of 30+ year old cars.. just built up to a "faster" standard.

I recall reading in the past that there are many local classes (say, IT classes) that are regional only.. They meet the need of a part of the club.

The IT classes for road racing has always been at the region level. I have only been a SCCA member for 13yrs, but it was explained to me that IT was from the beginning for regional level racing only. I think the disconnect here is maybe the fact that no where in the class rules it said the HCS or HCR would or would not be a National level class?

I've got several SCCA class, yearly, trophies taking up space in my shop.....earned the old way.( which the 914 is certainly capable of). Ya just gotta work at it.
If you need one I'll send one to ya.

Needless to say, I find this whole thread ludicrous.

Well then I guess I will bow to your greatness

The intent of this class is to provide a place for older technology cars to compete without the fear of being overrun by the new, high tech offerings that often exceed what was possible 40 or more years ago

Not everyone wants to modify their stock 914 or has the $$ to mod it to the point it is a XP car that can't be driven on the street.

Dude, I've heard all the standard lines from underachievers.

Well then, once again I bow in your greatness You can talk all the smack you want, but running a stock 914 against a full prepped car

Thank you Garold, JP and Racer for your comments. At this time it appears the HCS and HCR guys are going to participate in DM again at Nationals. I joined the forum on Grassroots Motorsports trying to drum up some support for the classes. Could be a tough row to hoe