My wife is looking for a car to replace the nun-mobile that we sort of inherited (1990 Toyota Camry). Our choices at the beginning were BMWs, Audis, and not much else. She really has her heart set on the TT, and I think a nice yellow one to match the 914 would be pretty sweet.

So the question is, why are used Audis so cheap? It seems like you can get a fairly early TT for $15-$18k if you shop around a bit. A4s can be had for around $10k or less. My wife doesn't care if it has Quattro or 250 HP, etc.

Is there something wrong with Audis? Do they break after X miles, is their some major flaw with them? I just can't understand why comparable BMWs go for so much more. In many cases its a LOT more.

-Tony

I think Audi's are not much more than priced up VWs. If you look at the various models they seem to be very similar?

They have reputation of low resale... maybe same reason as 914..

They are not all that popular, and some people remember the old ones.. the only cars (besides Citroen) that rust worse/faster than the heaps we love so much.

Other than that, they have never made, and pushed a car that just blew the public away, so you have bad marketing working in your favor.



M

I've been considering a 99 and up A6 Quattro for my wife also. I'm surprised at how cheap they are.

Any other theories?

Maybe they're cheap cause nobody will buy them?

I dont know about you more pedestrian modles but the S line seems to Hold thier value fairly well.

I always wondered why. Of course they have a following like our beloved 914's. I know some guys with 1,000s in turbos and other stuff in their cars.

I think the low prices are because they are VW based. I don't know of anyone who has had problems with them breaking (besides one guy who blew his turboed 1.8T, though he was draging)

Go for it.

Few banks will loan you money for a car that's more than 5 years old, so once a car is older than that, its price tends to fall off a cliff as too few people can cough up $20K or more in cash. Do searches on big classifieds databases (Craigslist is good for this) and you'll see lots of usually expensive cars selling for under $10K simply because they're 7-10 years old. Most of them are still excellent cars that would provide reliable service for another 5 years with nothing more than normal maintenance. This is even true for top-of-the-line cars like the M3 ('95 M3s can be had in the Bay Area for $10K pretty commonly).

I suppose there are still a reasonable number of people who remember the great Audi debacle of the mid-80s, but there are lots of younger buyers who don't know anything about that who associate Audi with their more recent cars. Audis are ranked right up there with BMW and Mercedes in Europe. VWs are also considered somewhat upmarket in Europe, though, so the VW/Audi relationship isn't so "damaging" there as here.

Most cars have been made so well for the last 10 years that buying a 10 year old car is a great bargain right now.

Its all about the marketing they are great cars. A4s A6s S4s even better S6 avant your wife will love that car , so will you.

The real reason is that Audi has a bad reputation, BMW does not have this though I believe they should. The quattros rock, and are well worth the few extra $$$ you will spend just in shear safety from stupidity and the unknown. Audi has had a rocky marketing plan being a step child in the US to Porsche and VW. They build great cars and yes VW share platforms with them. Other companies do also so why is this a bad thing. The S6 is a Porsche in station wagon clothes. I would buy an A4 before I buy a Passat, nicer trim, better options and priced right. they can be had for a steal, and most of the time they are well taken care of.

I am looking at used A4 quattros right now, but I really want a coupe.

____Any other theories?____

Aliens, from the planet Zoteph.

Audis are built with homing devices, so the Zotephians can find their owners. The Zotephians live only on the living brains of Audi owners.

They have a long proboscis, that they slurp only the frontal lobe, through the opposite ear, of the hand the owner favors with. This is where the reasoning goes awry.

The prices drop because the owners have tiny holes in their cash lobe.

M

What Are you smoking Miles?

Tylenol Flu...



M

Those of you who said "cost to maintain" are right...

Marketing isn't that big of a reason, cause Audi in the early 80's came out with the Ur Quattro that blew away a lot of the competetion. The all-wheel drive rally cars then were like the Mark Donahue 917, they won EVERYTHING. During the late 80's/early 90's they had a really hard hit from old, scenial, retarded automatic Audi owners before the brake/shift lock was introduced. What would happen is people would go to shift the car into reverse or drive, and instead of hitting the brake, they would slip and hit the gas, causeing the car to rev way up and once the gear engauged... they would run into whatever they were around. And since the old scenial retarded owners couldn't be at falt for doing such a stupid thing, Audi must have had a fault in the system that caused it. This is America, remember, the world leader in anti-responcibility/sue happy culture.

Its easy to say Audi (and Porsche too) isn't noticable because if you arn't that big of a fan and don't pay attention to them, you'll miss it. Ford, GM, Honda, Toyata and BMW on the other hand blind you with their marketing.

Yup, better trim than the Passat but they cost more for basically the same car.
I got a 2003 GLS 1.8T 5 speed with leather for Monique for $16k only 28kmiles, even looking around hard I has finding 2001 A4 1.8T's for that price with 45k miles. Lots of improvements between the 2001 and the 2003 so I went for the Passat.
Now to chip it!

Geoff

Hey 914forme, my buddie has a 92 coupe thats the pearl/white. That car is awesome! He's on his 3rd motor, projected HP is 550!

Average Jane doesn't gib a crap about a Ur Quattro that 'blew away a lot of the competetion'.

If they sold 10 million of 'em, we'd be stepping over cheap parts.




M

QUOTE (BigD9146gt @ Feb 14 2005, 05:26 PM)

Hey 914forme, my buddie has a 92 coupe thats the pearl/white. That car is awesome! He's on his 3rd motor, projected HP is 550!

Damn, I have a friend that would die for one. He has a really old quatro, and it pushes 320hp. The car is wicked heavy, and still runs high 11s. Hes always wanted a quatro coupe, their so much lighter. If only they had made more,

There was an Audi dealership in Redlands Ca. (Just closed down recently) that I visited in Feb of 2004, that had six or seven brand new Audi TT's 2002 models that had never sold.They were offering some great prices for them and they still could'nt sell them, I wondered how they would be able to finance them as new cars.

QUOTE (rdauenhauer @ Feb 14 2005, 05:04 PM)

I dont know about you more pedestrian modles but the S line seems to Hold thier value fairly well.

No kidding. I was shopping for an S4 and finally gave up. They all had 100k miles and were priced at $20,000. I ended up getting a simmilar-year low-miles (50k) M3 for less money. I still like the S4 though...

-Ben M.

I've got a 97 A6 Quattro. Awesome car in the snow. I now love it when it snows. Used to work from home when snowing, now I can't wait to get on the road.

I've owned 2 86 5000s (equivalent to A6), an 87 4000 (equivalent to A4), and my current A6. The 87 was bought new, the 5000s and A6 were used. This is the only way to buy an Audi - used. I bought my $39K (new) A6 when it was 2 years old with 35K miles for $22K. Its worth about $7-8K now. It is in excellent shape and I hope to keep it for some time.

Recall back in 1984-85 the 5000 had the reputation of killer cars, since they apparently had unintended acceleration. One woman pinned her kid in the garage when the car wouldn't stop. Prices for used 5000's then went through the floor. That's when I bought my first 5000. Turns out the problem was pedal placement as the brake pedal was too far to the left and people thought they were hitting the brakes when in fact, they were nailing the gas pedal.

Anyways, Audi's are good cars only if you can work on them yourself. The parts and labor cost a fortune and everything breaks. Right now, my "check engine" light is on and the "brake" light sometimes comes on. They have so many bells and whistles that are cool at first then suck when they break or stop working.

When I first bought my A6, the rear tranny seal was leaking and it cost $400 to repair (the dealer picked up that one). Even with all my complaining about the Audi, I might buy another one if I need a new car. My A6 is an excellent highway cruiser. A buddy and I went to NC from PA and for a while, we were traveling 95-100MPH with ease. Also, Audi's are known to go for 100s of thousands of miles when kept up. Mine has 110K now and is going strong.

Oh yeah, by the way, my water pump is leaking, and I just replaced all 4 brake rotors and pads ($500 in parts, I did the work myself). Boy do I love my Audi...

Spoke

QUOTE (redshift @ Feb 14 2005, 05:27 PM)

Average Jane doesn't gib a crap about a Ur Quattro that 'blew away a lot of the competetion'. If they sold 10 million of 'em, we'd be stepping over cheap parts. M

one of my passions is audis...that said i have owned several Ur Q's.....you have to look at them in the context of the era it was made, they were faster than 911sc's and had a REAL race heratige that others(save the sc)could only pretend to have. great car. modern Audis are awesome cars, the reason they are cheap relative to era BMW's is they were cheaper new and sold in copious amounts....ie shit loads. they have some inherent problems(early a4's have sqeaky a arms) but parts are generally cheap and very available in the aftermarket. if you live anywhere where awd is a benefit, buy one, you will not know why you didn't sooner. To answer the upped up vw comment, sorry the vw is a vw there in this situation....audi developed the platforms, vw shared it. kinda like the lincoln ls/volvo/jaguar platforms. sure they are pretty close and have parts that interchange, but they are different cars. I would suggest you have your wife drive one, the 99 1/2 up a6's are so nice......I have a hard time seeing a dealer with new 02 tt's on the lot, in this area, they sell everyone before it get's close to the country, much less on the lot

The biggest problem with used Audi's is the cost to maintain them. (The same is true with BMW and Mercedes.) If you can do your own mechanical work they are no worse than most other cars.

I had the problem child Audi 5000, but didn't have any more repairs than your typical 16 year old car problems. Though I did have a manual transmission.

The Audi TT uses the VW Golf IV platform, with minor changes to the suspension. VW Golf owners like to swap the front suspension pieces to get better camber characteristics

You can check out Audi and VW problems by visiting VW Vortex

I have owned at least 8 Audis over the years. Bought all of them used because they are a great value. I like them better than the BMW and Mercedes I have owned. Currently have a 99 A6Q and love it. Buy a low mile used one from a private party with good maintenance records. They can be expensive to repair but so are the other German cars.

just to clarify my post
vw platform cars
tt/golf/jetta/beetle

audi platform
a6/a4/passat/a8/phaeaton


vw platform
taureg/cayanne

QUOTE (redshift Posted: Feb 14 2005 @ 06:09 PM)

QUOTE ____Any other theories?____ Aliens, from the planet Zoteph.

I knew I should have qualified that statement. Of course I meant "practical" theories. Which would automatically disqualify Miles.

Thanks for the replies all.

Funny thing, I jusat p/u a new 04 S/4 Advant.
I owned an 86 CS 400 years ago..no problem at all.
Then some had many concerns.

The new S/4 has a V/8 340 hp...is faster than most so call
sports cars out there.

Yea, I could have bought another Benz..but considering I've
always like their Q system why not.
I'm also a skier too, mybe that's another reason why
I like Audis.. For me, why settle for the wanta be in four wheel
drive when you can afford the best.

I look at it his way, would you want the four wheels to 'kick'in when your about to kiss the side of the mt..

Or would you want FULL time all wheel drive.

So, what's your rear worth?

Used Audis for the most part are a steal

I for one love Audi's. I drive a 98 a4 2.8 quattro every day and it is a realy nice car. In my opinion they look great (especially when lowered with 18's on it) and the interiors are stylish.

Audi has a repution for being one of the safest cars you can buy, which is complety true. The car doesnt lose control. Even in a couple inches of snow and low profile street tyres it doesnt slip at all.

The maintenence isnt all that bad. Despite what most people think, they arent too hard to work on either. If a problem arises that you cant fix then you can just take it to a modern VW technician and the can do it. The rediculous price is if you take it to an Audi delearship, they try to screw you.

Wow. I had this conversation yesterday with a mechanic as I am interested in picking up a used Audi. He took several classes to work on the Audi/VW's and the classes just for the 1.8 Turbos. He said much the same as a lot of you. He loves the cars but says doesn't suggest them to others because he works on so many of them and they can be expensive to keep.

I'm sure its safer for him to suggest Hondas and Toyotas so it doesn't come back at him. That said...he didn't convince me not to pick up a nice used one if the price was right so I'm still looking.

Maybe Cap'n Krusty will chime in. I believe he's an Audi expert and IIRC a big fan.

Sorry to swerve off towards another brand... has enyone else compared '04 MBs, to '05 MBs?

Goodbye Benz. They are shat, and I am talking 600 vs 600... top of the heap, bottom of the bucket.


M

QUOTE (Paul Heery @ Feb 14 2005, 09:02 PM)

Yep. Real simple. They cost a small fortune to maintain. Timing belts, control arms, etc. The parts alone cost a lot. and, you are going to need to replace them.

I hate working on them, biggest pain in the ass cars made. Too many damn sensors to go bad and cost a kings ransom to replace. I'm suprised that they don't have an electric ass wiper sensor onboard the cars, they have one for everything else. Run Forest RUN!

OK belay my last. They aren't that big of a pain in the ass to work on. I still hate the sensor BS tho.

redshift, so what's the definition of "Average Jane"?

Cause if i had to guess, it wouldn't be someone who bought a german performance car like an Audi, it would be a Honda, VW, or one of the small engine 3 series BMW... basically what Average Jane's little snobby friends are wining to daddy for.

Now the "Above Average Jane", gets the A4, Boxster, 330Csi, C320, etc. And i will agree that she cares nothing about the Ur Quattro, but then again, who cares about the 914... We do now obviously, but back in the day, it was a popular car.

So in conclusion, Audi has had its ups and downs, but its never going to be an "Average Owner" car. If they were selling to the "Average Market", then they would be their parent company, which isn't the image. If you don't know what the image of Audi is, do a little research. Make sure you don't over look the past 10 years at Le Mans either....

If I may generalize a bit, I think if a person is interested in economical, reliable transportation, they should look to a Toyota/Honda/Nissan.
The Audi and other German cars, including Passat VW, are all going to cost more to buy and repair. We buy them to get the engineering, build quality and other characteristics they have. They are called luxury cars for a reason.

I just picked up a 2000 A6 4.2 V8 44,000 miles for $20K last week. I'm not sure I'd call that cheap. I think $18K or $19K might have been more in line with the market but the PO had been anal with upkeep and records as well as upgraded the suspension and wheels. I drove it home from New Jersey to Gerogia and never had such an easy/fun road trip. This V8 does really well from 60 - 110 MPH. Awesome.

I thought long and hard about the TT, the S4 and the new A4. The TT was out because I can't afford to have another 2 seater. I found a handful of S4s from 2000 and 2001 that could be had for $22K and that 's with 45,000 miles on them but I remember how cramped the back seat was on my old A4. I was also honestly concerned about the turbo problems that the 1.8t is giving new Audis and VWs and I couldn't afford a new V6 A4. The A6 turned out the be the best option. I added a $1500 after market warranty to the deal to lessen the pain in the event something goes really wrong.

I've owned an A4 V6 and a wierd 1990 V8 Quattro (wierd because it has no number designation - it's just called the V8 Quattro) that I guess turned into the A8 in later incarnations. All have been very nice cars. The V8 Quattro is kind of a pill becuase it is 15 years old and has over 100K miles on it but I only paid $5K so it has served its purpose for the last 2.5 years. I'm sure any $5000 15 year old car would give about the same level of aggrivation and expense.

My father owns a loaded BMW 540 and I think it's a 1998 or 1999 and he thought it was only worth $17K. So are Audis really that far off on holding their value?

My family has had several audi's - the only problem car was an 85 5000s that had a rediculously expensive hydraulic failure. After that, every car went WAY over 150k miles. Currently mom drives the TT, dad has the A6 (soon to be replaced with a used A8) and bro drives the original big bodied S4. The only issues on the recent group are the a-arm bushings on the 6 (under warranty), lost the headlight bulbs VERY quickly in the 6 (in the first year) and the TT has gone through two radios (also under warranty).

All in all every car but one has been pretty painless. Prior to the TT mom had a Jetta III - it literally fell apart around her. My bro did a two year lease on a new beetle as they were inexpensive and he was recently out of school. As well, the car was total garbage.

Some day I will buy an Ur Quattro coupe - it was my dream car back in high school. I watched two of them playing cat and mouse on I-70 going up into the mountains - it was awesome. Love those cars.

'nother Audi nut weighing in. We have had 5 cylinder audis in the family for the last 6 years and love the quattros. My local mechanic had some wisdom when I considered one. Audis will always have something broken but always get you where you need to go. 'nuff said.
Check out Audifans.com marketplace for deals. They also have an awesome support group.

My current 80 quattro turbo is so much fun I am considering selling the 914. A rustproof 4 door 4wd with 250 HP and 15 PSI. If only the sunroof were bigger....

I have a 94 S4, and I love it. Every time I drive it, it puts a smile on my face. Although, repairing it is damn expensive. After I bought it, I put about $2000 worth of work into it, although I knew that when I bought it, and the price reflected it.

For the size, it's a darn fast car, and it handles pretty good. It'll cruise at 200km/h all day long, and it's one of the most comfortable cars I've ever driven. I can drive it for hours on end with no problems. All wheel drive is also great around here. I've got a good set of winter tires, and the thing is a tank in the snow. The only problem is that it has been lowered, so clearance can be abit of a problem.

All in all, great cars, just expensive to fix.