I've been searching through info on the red and black keys to determine which key should do what. It seems that the black key should work all locks and that the red key should work the ignition and the doors but not the glove box or either trunk. Sound right?

I have spent a bit of time rekeying the locks for my car-But still not done . I've gotten pretty familiar with the 5 different wafers. I first thought that there were only 4 wafers, 1-4. But, noticed that there is a 5th wafer. I think that this wafer (along with the key blank configuration) is what makes the red-valet key work as it does.

Is the wafer on the left the one that allows the valet key to work???

The keys aren't supposed to work.


M

QUOTE

The keys aren't supposed to work.

That would have been too easy

And then I wouldn't have found out what a PITA rekeying the ignition is The little roll pins are difficult!!! I got lucky and was able to get the roll pins out cleanly on one lock. And I think that a 5/64 3/8" roll key will work as a replacement. I'll know for sure after I get a black key cut and reassemble the ignition lock - after testing with the new key!!

QUOTE (Doug Leggins @ Feb 14 2005, 07:53 PM)

QUOTE The keys aren't supposed to work. That would have been too easy And then I wouldn't have found out what a PITA rekeying the ignition is The little roll pins are difficult!!! I got lucky and was able to get the roll pins out cleanly on one lock. And I think that a 5/64 3/8" roll key will work as a replacement. I'll know for sure after I get a black key cut and reassemble the ignition lock - after testing with the new key!!

Whatcha use? a nail for a drift. Mine came out easily with the proper size pin punch.

Perhaps I am mistaking (but I think not), but the red and black keys are cut exactly the same. The "difference" between the red and black keys is the grooves in the sides of the key.

If I'm not wrong here, the "red" key has an extra groove (on both sides) where the keys are cut, while the black keys have a groove only on one side.

This would validate your finding with the "offset" in the "wafer" that you show. If all this is correct, the Black key would be the "master" key while the Red key is the Vallet key. The "cut" portions of the Red keys are nearly centered on the key while the "cut" portions of the Black keys are set to one side. The Red key with it's cut centered would "lift" the "wafer" too high and not allow the lock to turn.

This seems logical as the Black key on my Turbo is the one with the light (master), and the Red one is the same as the 914 Red key.

So to make a long story short....

I'd like to hear more opinions/facts about this one. Anyone else?

you are partly correct, but the only places the valet waffers should be are in the trunk lock, glove lock and hood lock. also the black key has an extra tumbler that the red key does not ( i tried to take a pic but it would not work ) and the only places the extra tumbler works is the trunks and glove. basicly they provided 2 types of security, one the tummblers 2 the extra tumbler. now when most places cut a spare key from a black key it will produce the extra tumbler, so thats when the valet tumbler comes in.

BTW even the locks that dont open with the valet key only have 2 of the notched tumblers, or they did from the factory. anything else has been rekeyed. if you ask how i know this i have rekeyed quite a few locks, even a NOS trunk lock and they all except one only had 2 of them.now some people i have seen have taken a trunk lock cylinder and put it in a door handle, will work fine till you try the valet key

Great info! Thanks, guys. Now I gotta clean up all my wafers & find the notched ones. I guess that means I take my reading glasses to the shop tomorrow.

QUOTE

Whatcha use? a nail for a drift. Mine came out easily with the proper size pin punch.

Yes I used a nail for a drift. Not a great idea, but I couldn't find a small enough punch so I cut off a nail, filed the end and used it. It actually worked fairly well on the first lock. The second lock didn't go so well. Now I've got mangled roll pins stuck in the tumbler. It was a spare so not a big deal.

QUOTE

also the black key has an extra tumbler that the red key does not

Please try to explain this extra tumbler.

QUOTE (Doug Leggins @ Feb 15 2005, 02:06 PM)

QUOTE also the black key has an extra tumbler that the red key does not Please try to explain this extra tumbler.

Please explain, I'm lost now. Both my Master and Valet key are cut the same, just on different blanks.

Hmm, I have a 914 at home that has working red and black keys. I could take a look, snap some pics?

okay here is a pic of a valet and a regular key not from the same car. but the line shows the shoulder and you can see a longer shoulder on the valet key

Doug,

Those wafers look D-I-R-T-Y. WTF Over?

Get on it would ya?

QUOTE

Those wafers look D-I-R-T-Y. WTF Over?

That must be the before cleaning pic -LOL!

Scott - I'm trying to follow what you're saying but not quite there yet. Once I get my black key blank and take another look maybe I'll understand.

Can someone post a side by side pic of a red and black key set that work properly?

QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Feb 15 2005, 03:14 PM)

Hmm, I have a 914 at home that has working red and black keys. I could take a look, snap some pics?

Well, I forgot to take pic's but the one above shows the keys pretty well. I have them in hand and both apear to be cut the same. Even the "collar" or "shoulder" is the same. the only difference I can see is the red one has an extra "grove" on each side. My keys work like they should. Black does everything, red only doors and ign.

My factory original keys are cut the same. I have never had to re-key any of my silver cars' locks. There is no "extra" cut.

You must compare the black and red keys for the same car/lock cylinder. I don't know or recall how many of the wafers (tumblers) have the security groove and it does not really matter.

The black and red keys are cut IDENTICALLY. The only difference between the KEYS is what has already been pointed out (the offset of the cuts made on the key blanks).