I have a 1974 914 1.8ltr and it drives smooth at speeds below 55 mph but up around 65 - 85 mph the steering wheel begins to shake violently. If I continue to accelerate it mellows out around 90 mph+. Have already rotated tires front to back w/o change. Tire pressures are good although the tires are showing some feathering. I am not sure if this is the chicken or the egg? short of doing a suspension over haul of all components

does any one have a more isolated idea?
thanks a bunch ,
Pete

tire balance

Mine did that. Front end was lowered by PO. I replaced the tie-rods (turbos) and added a bump steer kit (thick washers) and just about cured it.

My nut that holds on my aftermarket steering wheel also comes a little loose from time to time. It exacerbates any kickback that I feel.

Hope it helps.

- Joe

QUOTE (vsg914 @ Feb 17 2005, 04:49 PM)

tire balance

my wifes car did the same thing...a new set of tires cured it....I think it was more of a tire-imbalance than the tires being shot....

Bushings/bearings in the steering column, and check to see if all the bolts are there that hold the column to the tub... But I suspect as others - tire balance.

You may be about to lose a tire. Careful.


M

QUOTE (redshift @ Feb 17 2005, 05:08 PM)

You may be about to lose a tire. Careful. M

last weekend I almost lost a wheel on my 914....I forgot to tighten the drivers side front wheel from a few days earlier...I drove down the street and felt it...I had no tools and had to "limp" home at 3mph....luckly I have my crappy steel rims on the car and not the 17" alloys.....

QUOTE (vsg914 @ Feb 17 2005, 03:49 PM)

tire balance

Mine did that on my first teener.

QUOTE

QUOTE (vsg914 @ Feb 17 2005, 04:49 PM) tire balance   my wifes car did the same thing...a new set of tires cured it....I think it was more of a tire-imbalance than the tires being shot....

When I bought my 6 it had been sitting for over a year and the tires were no longer round!

Jeff

I'll add to my earlier post. An out of round tire can cause the same effect, or very worn out tie rod ends can cause the same, but balance them first.

Thanks all!
Is out of round a permanent issue or can you break them back in again to round after sitting??? etc.
I purchased a set of turbo tie rods and was planning on installing them with a new set of tires in 2 or 3 months (financial issues)
I was also considering changing the balljoints then too. being that I would be in need of an alignment then
from all of the picks that I've seen of the ball joints they look threaded and I don't have a specialty tool for it.
As always.
Advice appreciated.

tire imbalance is probably causing the shaking but minor imbalance should cause minor shaking, and major imbalance would be felt at a wider range of speeds.

easy thing to check/correct: loose wheel bearings. slop in the bearings will make any wobble feel worse. then: tie rods. worn tie rods allow the wheels to "flutter" and will cause more noticeable shaking in the wheel than simple imbalance. if it's been a while, check ball joints.

the feathering is also a classic symptom of worn dampers, which will also make the shaking worse.

it shouldn't do that, it's not safe, and it won't get better on its own.

the upside is: if the ball joints, tie rods, and dampers are worn out, you will not believe how much better the car will handle after you fix that stuff !

tire balance

One other thing to check that is tire related. Make sure the tire is inflated properly and look at it straight on to see if it is cupped in the center. If it is, the tire is actually pulling apart. YES they do this, what happens is the center tread will begin to seperate causing the cupping and a bad vibration. I had that problem on my CJ-7 a few years ago.

Maybe it's just scared

Of all of the advise that I have been given finally someone that seems to understand the situation.


YES, I DO BELIEVE THAT MY CAR IS SCARED OF ME!

if it doesn't tell me to slow down I'll redline that little silver SOB and see what she'll do. She is probably scared of that

QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Feb 17 2005, 05:51 PM)

Maybe it's just scared

Wouldnt you be too? That speed, running down the freeway at your age?

On a more serious note, I have that problem with the 74, I feel every bump in the steering wheel, I am going to just replace all the components, tie rods, bearings, control arm bushings, ball joints and struts, I will feel safer and I know it will ride nicer. Also, have your alignment checked as well, Balance is usually felt at most speeds, alignment is only felt at certain speeds, usually the 50 to 65 MPH range. It will smooth out as you go faster.

Welcome to the club BTW

X-Chicagoian here. 6033 N. Sheridan

Hey... Blister-Boy, are you making a crack at my age??

Hey, 2 things, one, I am almost all healed up!!! Second, I think I am older than you anyway which gives me that right!




And yes, like he said, welcome to the club.

QUOTE (skline @ Feb 17 2005, 09:05 PM)

On a more serious note, I have that problem with the 74, I feel every bump in the steering wheel, I am going to just replace all the components, tie rods, bearings, control arm bushings, ball joints and struts

Check your front axle hight, it may be set to low. This will cause the exact situation your are experiencing.

I'm gonna wave the 'tire balance' flag - I have cookie cutters on mine, and the stupid stick-on weights keep falling off. Around 65mph it gets a little vibration through the steering wheel, but past that it's fine (so I drive 90 everywhere ).

I get 'em balanced, and all is smooth as silk until hitting a bump, and the weights fall off again. Hafta do something about that before spring gets here however......

9 times out of 10- tires need to be balanced.

1) Tire Balance
2) Tire Tread separation or tire blisters( Watch out)
3) Bent Wheel
4) Wheel not centered on the hub. Mainly a problem with aftermarket wheels that are not hub-centric. (If this is the problem, then the problem can change every time you remount the wheel.)
Note this problem can lead to loose lug nuts too. Also use of wrong lug nuts for your type of wheels. I worked on one car where the lug nuts were too long. The nuts were tight AND the wheels were loose.
5) Mechanical issues such as worn shocks, bearings, worn tie rod ends
6) A tire that is not properly seated on the wheel. (The tire bead is not fully seated against the wheel rim on some part of the wheel). Some tires such as Michilins fit very tightly and are more prone to this problem. Don't get me wrong, I love Michilins.
7) Loose lug nuts(If this was the cause you would have known it by now, 3 wheels at 90mph, wow!)
8) Badly worn tires due to alignment issues. This would be obvious.
A good tire shop can check for #1,2,3,6 and 8 in just few minutes. You can check #4 and #7.
Lyle

It's been said many times... tires...

But, Lyle makes a good point about the bent wheel and bead seating. Jack the front end and spin the wheel to look for any major distortion. While it's up, see if there's any play in the wheel, then find what's moving. Do the same for all 4 wheels. If you find nothing, it's the tires.

BTW Do you feel the shaking anywhere else beside the steering wheel? Put your hand on a metal part to see if it's more than just the steering wheel.

Anyway, a little sidebar on tires.....
There's a disturbing difference between the tires OEMs get a the assembly plants and the ones consumers buy. The consumer's get the tires that don't meet the OEM specifications for R1H (radial first harmonic), R2H (2nd), conicity, etc.

QUOTE

I am almost all healed up!!!

That's not what Matt said...

He said you were still cry'n and it was a major crimp in the garage you guys had going on...

I had a front shock come apart on my car one time. The threaded collar had come loose and the shock would shake back and forth. This happened at lower speeds than your talking about.

On my car the PO had stored it for about 15yrs on new tires, one of the belts shifted shortly after I got it.

Look for an uneven wear spot on one of the front tires.

QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Feb 18 2005, 03:22 PM)

He said you were still cry'n and it was a major crimp in the garage you guys had going on...

You should also check the play in the steering shaft U joints.
I have had to replace those a few times over the years.

One other thing that will happen is that the spot weld that holds the spindle on to the strut housing can break allowing the spindle to move slightly on the housing.

Start drinking again and the DTs will go away!

when I've sobered up I'll stumble back to the computer and check responses to this one.

Gardner mentioned axle height.
Does anyone know good specs for it?

I know how to adjust the front axle height as I have installed torsions before but I don't know what it should be set to? I thought that it was drivers preference and afterwards would need to be aligned?

info. please.. recommended height and as measured from where?

thanks

QUOTE (groot @ Feb 18 2005, 12:04 PM)

There's a disturbing difference between the tires OEMs get a the assembly plants and the ones consumers buy. The consumer's get the tires that don't meet the OEM specifications for R1H (radial first harmonic), R2H (2nd), conicity, etc.

this deserves further exploration...

what is your basis for this fairly astonishing statement?

you seem to be saying that ALL the tire manufacturers' production would go to car makers except for the "seconds" ... and that only those "seconds" are available to end-user purchasers?

what about the tires that are OEM on no cars? e.g. Falken Azenis, Yokohama ES-100.

i am just a little skeptical that 100% of the end-user supply chain is composed of carmaker rejects.

QUOTE (pnewman @ Feb 19 2005, 01:32 PM)

when I've sobered up I'll stumble back to the computer and check responses to this one. Gardner mentioned axle height. Does anyone know good specs for it? I know how to adjust the front axle height as I have installed torsions before but I don't know what it should be set to? I thought that it was drivers preference and afterwards would need to be aligned? info. please.. recommended height and as measured from where? thanks

This is the first step in alignment.
Garland

More....

Do a quick test. Jack up the front end so that a front tire is just barely clear of the ground. Now rotate it and watch the gap between the tire and the ground. It shouldn't change. I'm guessing you'll see it widen and narrow as the tire rotates. (I think your tires are out of round as a result of bad allignment or balance - I'm thinking allignment) In and extreem case the tire might get half way around then wedge against the ground. Check them both and if they are out of round you have your answer. If not, then you can check one thing off your list.

You said the tires are feathered - Irregular wear is usually a result of out-of-ballance or bad allignment. Regardless of which condition caused the irregular wear, once the wear is so bad that it's visible the tire is probably junk. Sorry.

-Ben M.

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Feb 19 2005, 10:48 AM)

QUOTE (groot @ Feb 18 2005, 12:04 PM) There's a disturbing difference between the tires OEMs get a the assembly plants and the ones consumers buy. The consumer's get the tires that don't meet the OEM specifications for R1H (radial first harmonic), R2H (2nd), conicity, etc. this deserves further exploration... what is your basis for this fairly astonishing statement? you seem to be saying that ALL the tire manufacturers' production would go to car makers except for the "seconds" ... and that only those "seconds" are available to end-user purchasers? what about the tires that are OEM on no cars? e.g. Falken Azenis, Yokohama ES-100. i am just a little skeptical that 100% of the end-user supply chain is composed of carmaker rejects.

Sorry I lost this thread over the weekend.

You're right, I am talking about tires that are used for OEM applications and then only in the sizes that are used in OEM applications. (If I implied 100%, I apologize, that was not my intent)

My basis for making this statement is all the work we do here at Ford to chase vibration out of our vehicles. Many times it comes down to tightening a spec on the tires and that leads to a higher sort rate.... which means more rejections and those tires are sold to consumers because those specs don't apply to consumer tires.

The point is a tire company can sell you any tire that fits, but no other specs to define the tire and that can lead to issues. The tires you buy at Discount may or may not be good, it's a crap shoot. Vehicles today are very sensitive to tires.

I replaced the tires on my Focus SVT with some Goodyear F1 GSC tires, which had outstanding dry grip on warm days, but the noise from the tires was much higher than the stock Continentals. Vehicles, today, are tuned for their tires. So, replacing tires is a crap shoot. Most likely you will gain on some attributes and lose on some others.


Anyway... rant over.

ok - that all makes perfect sense, and i thought there must have been some detail to the original statement that i was just missing.

this effect, BTW - is what's behind Porsche's "N-numbered" replacement tires; it's Porsche's way of telling the consumer how to get a tire that matches the suspension tuning...

Now that's the right way to do it.

When we order tires for our development vehicles we use the batch and date codes to make sure they are "OEM" quality.

Sometimes we deliberately ask for "creampuff" tires to use as master (reference) tires.

IMHO it ain't tires. If you rotated them with no change then move on. I am dealing with the same issue on my 72,only I wouldn't describe the shaking violent ,just extremely annoying. First I replaced my front wheel bearings as they were bad.( shop that replaced them kinda threw some grease on them and called it good. ) That helped. Then I discovered the right tie rod end was bad and replaced that. That helped some more . Upon further inspection I found the left tie rod is bad too . Haven't replaced that yet as it has other issues too ,like a bad rear wheel bearing,but I expect that to remedy the situation.
Get a friend, jack the front up and put it on stands ,then go around and shake ,shove and move everything up front . Watch for loose stuff. Bearings you can feel. Ball joints and tie rods you can see. On a 30 year old rig all this stuff will be wearing out ,maybe the second time .
Do a little investigative work before you spend your hard earned cash. It could be your tires but what are the chances of having 2 or 3 bad if you rotated them already and it didn't cure the problem? Just my nickels worth. (Inflation)

As anyone else done this—or seen a more in-depth thread on this? My steering column has developed the shakes, and I did the press-in bushing years ago (which felt like cheating). Steering column feels like it is moving in its housing from time to time with certain kinds of bumps. Not a great feeling or sound...

Replaced the tie rods with Turbo tie rods recently, which may have exacerbated the problem, but everything under the car looked good during that repair and in the subsequent alignment—and the wheels/tires are balanced.

Thanks!

LOL