Hi there,

I'm about to order parts for my engine rebuild.

The plan is to upgrade a 2.0 GA D-Jet engine as following:

2056cc
Stroke 71mm (stock)
CR 9:1
Raby 9590 cam
SSI Heatexchangers
Original Muffler

The only thing stoping me right now is that I need verify CO2 emissions every 2 years here in Germany.

My questions are now:
1. Does this set up idle well and stable at 900-950RPM
2. Does it reach the 3% CO2 spec. in idle

I know that a none stock cam should not idle so low, this will be just for the time of the measurement.
Without reaching this spec values I not able to register the car here in Germany :-(

Thanks and best Regards,
Frank

PM Jake Raby. He's the guy who made the cam.

Also, contact Type 4 store and see if they have any insight. Jake may not offer much support since he no longer sells those parts. I've got the same cam but am still building the engine so I can't offer advice. I do hear that the previous 9550 cam that Raby sold ran best at slightly higher idle RPM due to being slightly rich at idle. Don't know if the 9590 is better in that regard but it may be hard to get where you need to be to pass.

My 9550 cam idles good at 900-950 rpm.

My AFR at idle is usually around 13:1, with idle timing being about 14*BTDC

Hi guys,
thanks for your input!

Anybody else out there running that setup?

Thanks!
Frank

Idle speed of 1,000 is where I optimized the 9550. Lots of people run these in California and other states that require sniff tests without issue.

The trick is adjusting initial advance to 14* then limiting the full advance to 28-30*. If you must get a sniff test, run the lowest octane that you can find and get the engine hot just before the test.

The only 914s that require testing in CA any more are the 76es.

--DD

Hello Jake,
thanks for the advice.

Two questions I have.

1. Does that count also for the 9590?
2. What CR would you recommend for a street application, not looking for max.HP but a smooth and cool running engine which idles well (elevation is around 1000ft)?

Thanks again and best Regards,
Frank
P.S. Here the sniff test counts in from year 71 and officially no changes from stock are allowed :-(

Not sure how different the profile is on the 9590 … I have the 9580, and it's either 9:1 or 9.5:1 (I don't recall what CR Richard built it at).

He had me source a Bosch VJR 4 BR 8 (36HP bus/356 dizzy) to provide an optimum advance curve.

It idles fine at 900~1000, but I'm still getting a little bog-down at WOT. Need to analyze and re-jet for the new banana muffler

One thing's for sure - it wouldn't pass a smog test. Glad it's exempt

I've been running the 9550 for 4 years now and never knew this info.

I just happened to stumble across these settings when tuning MS.

This seemed to give the best MAP signal and throttle response.

Likewise, for about the last four years. I'd been messing with the mixture, trying to find the happy medium between head temps and fuel consumption (too fat)

Retarding the timing, and installing the aux oil cooler has it now at the point where I feel it's finally dialed in very closely. The last issue was the idle, I've now got it in the 950 range, and the car just feels better.

Drove it today, 75 degrees, and at highway speeds my oil doesn't go over 210, and head temps are right around 340. Under load, and pushed uphill, 375-380 is about where it peaks.

I'll check that idle timing, and see if I'm close to that 14 number. Then I'm gonna call it good...

You won't be able to get 14* with a stock dizzy. Your overall timing will be way too advanced.

I have a 36-1 trigger wheel so I can control all my advance areas

Ahh, ok. Yes, that would be too high at idle. I'll get the light on it over the weekend and see where I'm at at 3500 rpm.

Thanks

You mean that the poster is being tested in Germany not California?

I have the cam and compression numbers of the original poster in a 2056. Idle is generally smooth. My only problem has been trading fuel ratio with head temps. Needs to be awful rich to stay cool. I will try the timing suggested by Jake.
If I were to do it again I would have used a stock cam.

Btw, where can one obtain a stock grind on a new cam?? Of course auto correct is more interested in seafood and made it clam.

European Motor Works will get you any cam profile you want.

I found that you can run it on the leaner side and still be ok. But, it's a fine balance of timing and fuel

[/quote]
I have the cam and compression numbers of the original poster in a 2056. Idle is generally smooth. My only problem has been trading fuel ratio with head temps. Needs to be awful rich to stay cool. I will try the timing suggested by Jake.
If I were to do it again I would have used a stock cam.

Here in Germany everybody who knows the 914 well recommends to use nothing else than the stock cam if you want to stay with the D-Jet. Since there are so many conversions out there in the US and since what ever comment I read from Jake (all very valid and professional) I thought I should give it a trial. But if it doesn't work, I can't get my car registered and that a pretty high risk I have to take.

Why have you been happier with the stock cam?

Happier with a stock cam, no. A stock cam engine get max 95-100hp on a great day most don't even come close to that on a dyne.
The Raby cam wakes up the engine to 115-120hp and runs cooler. Yes, it takes time to tune the MPS and get the timing right but big deal. Oh and it idles at 1000rpms and sounds great.

Hi Geoff,
it looks like I'll oder a cam kit from TypeIVStore and use just the upper part of it with a stock cam in first place. If the car is once registered I can upgrade with the 9590 and the lower valve train plus springs...
Much easier to dial everything in if I can drive the car.

Are you running the original distributor with a limitation on centrifugal?

Best Regards,
Frank

No, I mean that the CA guys don't actually have much experience with getting the 9500-series cams past the sniffer test. Because very few 914s actually have to pass those.

--DD

Ok, now your post makes sense. You could have said that the first time around ...

To get the recommended 14 degrees BTDC at idle is there a recommended distributor or modification?

The best I can do is 6 degrees BTDC at idle with a maximum advance of 30 degrees at 3500+ rpm.

I'm sure there are some really knowledgeable gear heads here that could answer the question, but I'd also post it on the ShopTalk forum.

My 2056 with a 9580 cam is running a VJR-4-BR-8 from a 36HP VW Bus

Click to view attachment


Bus & Pickup Mar 1955-1959 * 36HP

Distributor: VW 211-905-205E, Bosch VJR 4 BR 8/1 (0231 129 019)
Can Use:
Points: 01 001
Condenser: 02 170
Rotor: 1237 332 072 (NLA) - Can use 04 008
Cap: 03 019
Coil: 00 001 (Blue Coil: 00 016)
Vacuum Can: None
Ignition Wires: 09 001
Spark Plug: W8AC
Timing Set At:: 7.5° BTDC Static
Advance/Retard Range: 27° @3400 RPM See diagram (Glenn, the ultimate dizzy guru, says the spring rates and weights are the same as the VJU-4-BR-8 and the VJU-BR-8 shown)

Click to view attachment


You might want to contact him too: Link to Glenn's site

Then your dizzy has too much built in advance. This must be limited to around 16 degrees, so you can achieve 12-14* at idle, and 28-30* degrees at full advance.

This makes a world of difference in idle quality, as well as all around performance, and fuel economy, not to mention CHT and OT control.

Since we're on this subject( and a slight hijack).....

Jake, do you have a suggested timing curve you can post for these cams?

I've been tuning and things are going good but one thing that has me stuck is the correct timing at different RPM's.

BTW...I went in to adjust my rockers this w/e and after about 3500 miles, it was not needed. Been running B.P. oil and it's been working great!

Can someone tell me the solution to limiting the advance on my distributor?

I'm not sure how to proceed to solve the problem.

Is everyone else running a programmable ignition controller when using the rat 9590 with d-jet?

Would I need to purchase something like an MSD 6A to use a RAT 9590 cam?

Absolutely not. Most have stock distributors, set up as factory, or with DIY modified advance limitations.

I know of no one using an external gadget like you mention with the 9590, or the 9550 camshafts.

The type IV Store does not offer the 9550.

Am I missing something?

The 9550 is an earlier version of the 9590.

The 9550 isn't offered anymore. I have one in my car. Not a "power cam" but I am getting 39mpg out of the 1.7.

I'd like to see how the 1.7 would perform with the 9590 but I don't think it would get the MPG's.

The intake profile of each is exactly the same between 9550 and 9590. The exhaust profile slightly changed to be more compliant with ethanol and oxygenated fuels.

I've been doing a lot of tuning lately and it seems like the cam likes a lot of timing on rpm ramp up.

My idle timing is 14*, by 2200 rpm I'm already at 24*, 28-29* at 3500. No ping lots of power and 15:1 Afr on light throttle( around town driving).
Freeway I can cruise around 70 with good MAP and about 14.5:1 AFR.

Now THAT'S useful information.

I'm running megasquirt so I can control the Timing and fueling.

I am just now starting to realize how much of a benefit this is for these engines.unfortunately my poor little 1.7 has been the abused sacrifice of my FI learning curve.

I am more in line with the original post.

I have been looking at this cam for a while for a 2056 with stock injection.

Geoff (Bleyseng) says it requires some adjustment of the MPS. I'll assume he is running a stock distributor.

His feedback is very positive. I think it is almost mandatory to have a CHT gauge and AFR gauge or instrumentation for tuning.

All I have left to do is choose the cam.

The cam ( IIRC) was designed for stock FI.

If you had an AFR gauge there is not much adjustment that can be made.

CHT...IMHO is a must, just to know when the temps start to rise you can back off or pull over and let it cool. don't scrimp, spend the money and get the Dakota digital

I've ordered all the parts I need for the rebuild and the last open question I have is:
What is the optimum CR for 9590 if I build up the 2056 from 2.0 D-Jet for a 914.
Once Jake reported very good results with a 9560 cam and a CR of 8.8 : 1 and I'm not sure if I should go for CR of 9 : 1 with my build.
Any recommendations?
Thanks,
Frank

In for an answer also.....I will be doing a build in a few months and 9:1 comp is what I'd like to run

I think Bleyseng (Geoff) also posted that it was optimum just below 9:1.

I too...am interested in that info as well.

For sea level operation the 9550 and 9590 should be kept to 8.5:1 max static CR. I have ran them at higher elevations with as much as 9:1, but never more than that.

Thanks Jake....that's the way it will roll then.

Thanks Jake

Thanks Jake,
that was the last piece of info needed!