I'm friggin' breaking my head over which shocks to use for my track car...

I want some kind of adjustable shock. I don't want (revalved) Bilsteins!

First choice was yellow Koni's, but... after inquiry, I was told these shocks are only good up to double the original springrate
Which is about 100# and means I could run springs up to about 200# max

I've been browsing the Koni sites till my eyes bled
www.truechoice.com
www.koni.com
www.koniracing.com

I want to convert the fronts to coilovers and raising the spindles (use either Koni or Bilstein struts)
And use spring rates somewhere between 300# and 450#
(starting at 300# but keeping my options open to go higher)

Is anyone here using the 8611 double adjustable dampers from Koni?
And if so, what are you using in the rear...

the www.koniracing.com site states that most Koni dampers can be changed to double adjustables and be custom valved
Anyone have experience with this?

Any other good options besides revalved Bilsteins or a mega-bucks-remote-canister-dampers (which I prolly won't be able to dail in anyway)

cheers,

Jeroen

Since Carrera is now gone I am looking at those as well. They are revalvable so don't worry about off the shelf valving. Kevin Groot is running these in his car. He seems happy with them.

I have Koni 3012's on the rear of my 911, they are 8 way adjustable... way more than I can deal with but they live in the school of lightweight ala Paul.

FWIW on my 914 I have 450# front and 350# rear springs. The shocks (bilstiens) were built with those spring rates, and my corner balance info. along with the HP of the car etc..

Talk to whomever is going to build your shocks, provide them the basic info about your car, and use the build they provide you as a benchmark.

Most of the big boy shock places like Bilstein/Koni/Truechoice can do a revalve with a few day turn around if your willing to pay some serious shipping fees....... but isnt Koni based in the netherlands?

Yep, Koni is in the Netherlands... 'bout 15 miles from where I live
I've tried calling them. Differs who you get on the phone
Some of the guys will spend some time with you and offer advice
Others think your the next rice boy, and they cut you short...
Just looking for more info before I call them again

The 3012's have eye's at the top, right? (not shafts)
How did you mount those, or did you fab new mounts on your chassis?

3012s are eye/eye shocks

The speedy parts sellers here make what they call "clevises" to adapt the top eye where a threaded rod used to be..

and Yes They say turn around and place your elbows on the table before they tell you the price

Kelly Moss sells a clevis. so does Racers Group, and a number of other ppl.

If you go with eye/eye shocks you need to have them built to length also.. remember to subtract the length of the adapter from the shock!!

As Brent said, I run the 8611s on the front of my car and I have some 30s on the way for the rear.

Given the rules for EP, I believe the 8611s to be the way to go, since we have to stay with a strut. One of the cool things about the 8611s that I'm using is that they are shorter than a "regular" 911/914 replacement strut cartridge. So, I cut out some of the strut tube and re-welded. And this allowed me to have more travel in the front without moving the knuckles... but, don't try this at home because your roll centers will go to sh%$. My 8611s are custom valved, but probably too stiff. I haven't played with the bump setting too much, yet. I was just trying to keep the car on the track.

TimT, I can't imagine what an 8-way adjustment on a Koni 30 is. Please enlighten me. do you mean 8-positions of rebound damping? That makes sense. BTW... Koni 30s are double-adjustable and the bump/compression adjustment cannot be done with the dampers installed. The most adjustments on a damper I've ever heard of is 4 (high and low speed, compression and rebound). But, hey, I don't know that much......

BTW.... Jeroen, I would be wary of an general estimate like "Koni yellows are only good for twice the original spring rate" Each one is different and that sounds like a good way to get a customer to spend more than they want.

I don't remember what the purpose of your car is. That will help you decide.... and your budget.

BTW... willy ou order from Koni direct?

Kevin,
Lots of questions here...

Which struts are you using on the front?
Which 8611's do you have? 8611-1256, 8611-1257 or 8611-1258
How's the front a-arm geometry with the shorter shocks?
Koni mentions you need to drill a 1/2" access hole in the bottom of the strut to get to the bump adjuster. Did that work ok?

For the rear, the 8211 makes sense in combination with the 8611
(stock yellows are 8641 and 8241 f/r)
Hopefully they are able to convert them from eye-mount to shaft mount on the top
Otherwise, I guess I'll have to change the chassis mount

I'm gonna dig a little deeper and see what I can find out and try calling Koni a little later this week...

Here's what I hope is possible (in order of preference):

Adjust the "stock" yellow 8641 and 8241's to double adjustables and revalve
or
Just revalve the yellows and leave them single adjustable
or
Get the 8611's for the front and see what sollution they have to offer for the rears

Thanks for your input all!
If I learn anything else, I'll keep you posted...

Actually, I don't recall what the second half of the number is. They're sealed up, but I'm taking them apart in the next few weeks. The a-arm geometry is dependent on the knuckle height, not the length of the strut. So, the normal rules apply.

There are two ways to deal with the bump adjuster. One, drill an access hole to get a screw driver in the bottom of the strut. The other is to have Koni (or whomever you buy the dampers from) switch the bottom adjuster to a pinwheel style (similar to the top of a Koni 30) and make a slot in the side of the strut. With the 914 setup and the first option, you'll have to remove the balljoint to adjust bump. With the second option you should be able to adjust bump without removing anything.

What did I do? Glad I asked. My balljoint setup is a little different, see pic. I actually drilled a hole in that bolt and then again through the bottom of the strut. So, I can get a screwdriver in from the bottom without removing any suspension components... but I do have to take a wheel off.

Don't worry about getting a matched set for the front and rear, but do make sure the damping is set right for your car. The rears are easy to find options that work, not so for the front, as you've found. I am changing my top and bottom mounts on the rear for the new dampers...... which I highly recommend. I've ranted about this before, but I'll go again...... The rear dampers on a 914 bind. It must be fixed. I have a set of Bilsteins with bent shafts because of this. There's a stupid rubber bushing at the trailing arm end that should be a rod end and a top mount that doesn't allow enough missalignment. Take a look at your rubber top mounts some day. I can almost gurantee that the damper shaft is trying to go to one side or the other and it's putting a side load on your damper shaft... BAD, BAD, BAD.



BTW..... I used Koni yellows in their original configuration on my ITB Rabbit for years. The spring rate in the front was 450 #/in and the stock rate was ~110#/in and they had no trouble providing enough damping for that spring rate. My experience has been that the Koni yellows are good for much more than 2x the stock spring rate. I'm not trying to talk you out of the 8611s, but I think you'll be fine with the Koni yellows. My recommendation is start with the yellows as is, rebuild/revalve them in ~2 years when they need to be freshened anyway.

Thanks a bunch Kevin,
Like you suggested, I'll just get a set of stock yellows and see from there
That would eliminate just another set of unknows that I don't have to deal with right now
This thing was drivin' me nuts over the past week or so... I should sleep better now

My Carreras are basically A stock car shock with a strut type mount on the top. Nice threaded body shock with 3 adjustment positions. They have a rod end on the trailing arm end. I really like them but I don't know much about them. They are rebuildable and revalvable by the manufacture. I don't know if QA-1 will rebuild them.

I think QA-1 owns Carrera now.

Yeah found that out after I tried to get the Carrera inserts for our cars. No more. I know PRO also does an aluminum shock that would work on our cars.

I almost bought these shocks for the rear of my 911, but opted for the Koni 3012... it the damn fronts that are the headache

I forgot about AFCO. Yeah too bad we are stuck with the front strut design.