Now that I have the 2.0 running adequately its time to tackle the rust issues...

When I first looked this car over I was so excited about getting it I didn't look as thoroughly as I should have. The cost of excitement I suppose...

Although what I am about to show you isn't nearly as bad as some of the amazing restorations I have seen on this site, I still feel it is necessary to show you what I am dealing with! My hopes are that I can be pointed in the right direction.

I am partially embarrassed to even show these pictures as the rot is minimal by comparison to what I've seen some members work with...

here goes nothing...

all the interior removed:









seat mount is completely gone:



Just behind the passenger seat... directly over the jack mount area:



Same area as from the previous pictures only look from under:



nearly completely separated from the top of the tunnel:




Nemi

Under the car looking towards the front: Tunnel is in rough shape







This gives a basic of what I'm dealing with.

Oddly, there is No rust in the "hell hole"... at least none that I can clearly see. The battery moved to the rear of the car and that might have saved this area...

Anyhow, this is what I have to work with. Overall not terrible, but certainly more than I had hoped for in wanting a drive-able project.

Comments welcome.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers

I don't think your rot will be minimal. Pull the rocker covers and poke around some more. Our cars have spot welded seams that allow moisture to enter into the body cavities. So they literally rust from the inside out. Check out the passenger suspension console, the pedal box reinforcement, the rear trunk, and the area where the bumpers are bolted in. As you remove paint, undercoating and seam sealer, you will find more rust. It can all be fixed.

I would also buy some stainless steel fuel lines from tangerine racing.

Rust never sleeps.....ask us how we know!

Looks like the car was POR-15'd at some point in its life. There's going to be a lot of rust to fix. You can get many of these parts from Restoration Design.

1. Drivers and pasenger floor pans http://www.restoration-design.com/store/product/PP344 and P345

2. Probably both trunks (or at least partial pieces in both trunks).

3. Suspension consoles

You need to get a look at those longs with the rockers off and starting poking with a big screwdriver.

I hope it works out for you. Of course, fixing this car all depends on your wallet and/or your welding skills and/or your personal connection to the car (ie. it belonged to a family member). Best of luck.

That looks pretty bad and be assured, there is more hiding. I hope you're good with a welder!


Most parts you will need are available from RD:
http://www.restoration-design.com/


What's the VIN? A black '74 always makes me suspicious ...

I was hopping for a different response but kept in the back of my mind I'd get this.

I except the challenge but am overwhelmed at this point...

Car has no connection other than I like 914s. My goal was to find something I could drive and work on... doesn't look like the case here.

The vin for the car is:

4742903791

and here is the stamp for the color code:



Unless I am mistaken this is an original black 914.

I wont give up just yet. But it does look like I need to focus on finding the rust issues and start making a list of what I am going to need.

Someone asked if I can weld.... can't say that I am the best, but I have welded a time or two.

appreciate the feedback.

Cheers

Nem

Excuse my ignorance, but what does this mean?

It's a rust inhibitor paint. Problem is that if the car is already rusting, it continues to rust from the inside out. Note: Our cars rust from the inside out already.

http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Rust-Preventive-Coating_p_8.html

This isn't my car, but here is a sample of the type of work you are looking at:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...;hl=fixing+rust

I'm not trying to be a downer. It all depends on your skill set. If you are a person with good welding skills, a shop (barn garage) to work in and have time then you could/should tackle the project. But from a safety standpoint, I wouldn't drive it especially with the seat rail welds rusted away from the floor pan (the seat belt connecting doesn't look great either). These cars don't have a ton of collision protection to start with, but they will crumple even more with a weak frame.

Don't look with your eyes--look with a screwdriver. You might be surprised at what lurks under decent-looking paint. Especially in the hell-hole.

--DD

Found out today that there is not rust in the Hell Hole because its already been repaired...

From what I see it was decently done from the engine side, but not so well from the outside...

I came across several black widows while looking around so I wasn't able to get a good look from under the fender side..this thing is crawling with spiders and spider eggs.


If mood is good enough I may just drop the engine to get this project going. I was hoping to drive it some, but since I don't have first gear I might as well get that going too.

Curious... I have Reverse just fine... should I still consider the linkage as the cause for 1st being gone?? Or is it possible to have R and not 1st. I read that they are the same gear set and when you loose one you usually loose the other.

Anyhow.... look out for some future pictures...

You'll want to remove the firewall backpad insulation inside and also the insulation in the engine compartment. There is more rust hiding there.
Good luck and don't be discouraged - from a fellow early '74 2.0 owner

Thanks Shadowfax!

I am trying really hard to not be discourage. The issue I am going to face is having the funds to buy what needs to be replaced... which is why I was hoping to be able to drive it for a while while I collected what was needed.

I knew this wasn't going to be a cost effect restoration, but dove into anyway.

I have always been a fan of american muscle... then one day a friends Dad gave me a 75 Porsche 914.

Since then the 914 has earned its place in my heart. While the 75 was drive-able it had its issues that took significant value from the car.

My fear is I'll get to a point with this car and not be able to continue... if that happens and it sits for a long time I'll loose focus and it will never get complete.

My goal is to have the rust taken care of by the end of this summer. I have already calculated the cost for parts and know what I'm in for. I just need to take is slow and steady when the repairs get going.

Whew... feel like I went off on a rant for a bit.

Anyhow... the weather is cold so I might not get the motor taken out today. I recently had back surgery and cold weather isn't nice to me.

Stay tuned!

Cheers

Nemi

Here is an overdue update of the my 74 2.0 restoration:

Decided to drop the engine today so I could get a better look at what might be hiding.

I think overall things could have been worse, but I am trying to remain optimistic and could be kidding myself.

The Hell Hole has definitely seen some repair... Will need more work I think as whoever repaired it only fixed what was visible.

Tomorrow if I have time I plan to clean the car as much as possible. The spider eggs and webs are everywhere.

Enjoy the progress pics!

2.0 waiting to be cleaned up!





Not that I doubted the car wasn't a real 2.0... it has become hard to find a 914 intact with its original motor... at least this confirms a legit 2.0. Anyone know how to match the engine number to the VIN?



These next few pics I was getting a glare from the sun.. sorry for the quality:





Just below where the battery tray would be... not sure of the correct term for this area... but its in needs of repair:



Battery Tray area... hard to tell what was done from this side, however its clear from the outer.. couldn't get a camera inside to truly see. Will have to get to that later.

Looks rusty... little surface rust but otherwise solid.





This side (driver) is surprisingly solid.





an interesting picture I took through the shift rode hole. Hard to see it, but its rusted to hell in there.




That about does it for today. I have been making my shopping list and I'm not sure where to shop for parts. Auto Atlanta has a lot of stuff, but so does Restoration Design. Any recommendations?

Suppose in the end as long as I get what I need it wont really matter where I buy from.

Well thanks for viewing the progress this far!

Cheers 914World

Nice progress. Please clean out all of the spiders, nests and anything else with more than 2 legs.

Restoration design is always 1st on my list. AA not so much.

Cairo,

Since getting this 914 Home I have seen some very interesting spiders... colorful is one way to put it.... along with several black widows... I was half considering setting off a few bug bombs... really not a bad idea!

In addition to the creepy crawlers is the ridiculous amount of excrement left by the 914's favorite four legged rodents. Its just everywhere!



Thanks for the feedback! I will keep that in mind. I've seen many of the RD's videos on the tube and they produce some quality stuff.

The guys who own it and work there are top notch. I have spent a ton of money with them and will continue to do so.

That is good to hear. I am in the process of selling a motorcycle I no longer ride. This should help with a majority of all the items I would need for the rust.

Selling one toy to fund another.

This is your longitudinal frame rail and structural. This should have been repaired when the PO did the hell hole.

This needs to be fixed before you drive the car.

Click to view attachment

You really need to look under the rockers. I think you will find a lot more unfortunately.

It's a recommended pre purchase inspection area

This is the backbone of your car and it looks like swiss cheese ...

not the answer I wanted, but I am certainly glad I have it now and now later.

Excuse my ignorance, but where would I buy the pieces to fix this damage?



Another ignorant question... what do you mean buy "under the rockers"... Is there any removing of sheet metal in order to see this area? The outer shell's looks and feel very solid...



makes me wonder how hard the previous owner drove this car? ... At least now she has a home and an owner interested in making her whole again... regardless of how this project is making me stress out...

The Rockers are the trims or skirting that runs under the doors between the wheels, they're bolted in place but the bolts may well be rusted so could need cutting off. You'll find the structural Longs behind these and you must check the condition of these...judging the rest of the car you likely will have issues here. They form the structure of the car so if they are compromised, your car is very dangerous to drive.

You've made a great choice buying a 914, they're wonderful and engaging cars...very much underrated. Your particular car is going to be a challenge though imho. If you have a decent amount of spare time, plenty of funds and the motivation you will love fixing it up..but I think your car needs to be completely stripped to assess the full extent of the fix.

I am/was a novice when I started my car..the PO had done some bodge repairs which made things even harder and I had a lot to address but i love every spare minute I get to spend on it..

Good luck and keep on it...

Restoration Design

http://www.restoration-design.com/store/category/914

The main problem you see was caused by battery acid coming off the battery when it got rained on.The floor pan? Looks like it had a serious back window leak for a long time.

Sorry to say its going to take longer than the 1/2 hour you see on TV. But its definitely doable.

Strip out the interior and pull off the doors. Weld in some support where the door were and strip the entire car down. All the way. Take it to a sand blaster and let them have at it. See what you have when they're done. Then start replacing parts.

Many of us learned the hard way with our first 914 as a learning experience

Some truly talented people on this site fix it correctly with a rotisserie.

Some part it out or sell to find a better starting point

This is going to be a big job. Costing multiple times more than you think
The math shows that you can find another car cheaper than you can fix one.
It's often a multiple year project. I don't want to discourage you. Just go into it with your eyes wide open.

Pull your rockers

Okay guys! Sounds like I have some serious considering to do...

This is not my first 914. Although I can admit all I did was drive the other one.. I never really took any time to see how bad things were. I knew it had some rust, but at that time I wasn't terribly interested in 914's. I took a 75 2.0 car (had a 1.7 bus engine) as a trade for a motorcycle my dad gave me. Seemed like a fair trade.

I ended up selling the 75 for a pretty decent chunk of change considering it wasn't matching in any way. Anyhow... after selling that car I realized how much I missed it and loved driving it. It actually made an impression on me.

This is why I jumped on this 74 2.0 car. Thought I could bring it back to life and learn a thing or two about these amazing cars.

Anyhow, here are the requested pictures of the rockers inside the car and outside.

I really need a better camera.

Starting with the passenger side:



Looks like some work was already been done on this side.... can't tell the extent though





Now from under the rocker... This next picture makes me







From inside the car:





Yikes:





Now moving over to the driver side:



Jack point looks untouched on this side:











These next few shots are terrible... too dark











And there you have it! I think it need to start looking for a good Rotisserie.. a set of plans at the very least as I am confident I can make one.

Feedback welcome.

Cheers

Search here on 914world for plans on building a rotisserie.

Not that you asked for it, but my honest opinion is that you should take as many of the good parts off of that car (and there are tons) and find a new tub. About the only logical reason for restoring this car would be 1.) it belonged in the family (ie. was your grandpa's car) or 2.) it was an original 914/6 or 3.) it had some serious racing prominence.

Unless you have some sort of emotional connection to the car, it'll be cheaper and quicker to find a good tub and move the parts over.

This one will require a LOT of cutting and welding to get it fixed.

You know its funny really... I was just out working on the darn thing and had this very conversation with my wife as I was glooming over a pile of rust.

I'm still not willing to admit defeat and one of the biggest motivating factors with anything that I do is when someone tells me I shouldn't or can't for some reason or another.

I am not saying that anyone here has come out and said that, but I do get the feeling that most wouldn't disagree if I choose that route.

While it might not makes sense for many it is a challenge I have excepted. At least at the current time frame.

I just need to understand this is not going to be on the road anytime soon. My 6 year son might drive this thing as his first vehicle....

Well lets not hope it takes that long, but if it does so be it.

Find out what you've really got. It may be better than what you think, then again it may be much worse. If you're committed to the project then spend the time and money to understand the scope of the job. Nothing worse than doing piecemeal repairs only to discover fatal flaws after you've put hours and $$ into it. Good luck.

The part the worries me the most is the rear longitudinal that was referenced as "Swiss cheese" is a few posts back.

that repair looks very complicated.

The floor I am confident in doing as long as a I go slow. There is no doubt this will be a learning a process.

Good thing I have all of you to refer to when times get tough!

This is a really expensive (possibly dumb) statement. Think of it in business terms. It's a bad investment. You will spend twice (or more) the value of the car trying to save it.

If you were on the East coast or UK I might sympathize with you. But, you live in California, land of the 914. There are way better bodies, rollers and drivers out there than this one.

Remember you can only see 10% of the rust. The rest will be found as you cut it trying to patch up bad metal.

Check out my build thread
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/inde
My car looked good but was very rusty inside. I am paying to have it professionally restored. It's a good amount of $$$ but it will be done right. I could never do it myself. It would have been way less expensive if I started with a better tub but it didn't. Take your time and figure out what you want. Personally I hate to see projects that someone starts, gets overwhelmed and never get done but that's life.

I will take your less than constructive comments as the best criticism you can muster. I now completely understand why "YOU" wouldn't restore this car. Thanks for sharing your insight.

a statement is only as dumb as the interpretation. I mean no offense! I may be foolish to try and save this car.. and it will most likely not make any kind of financial sense... but to suggest that I am "dumb" to except the challenge completely takes away why any of us even bother with these cars. After all, how many are truly rust free? Rust repair is a challenge we all except when we first decide that the 914 is the car of choice. And that is all it is... just a choice! As long as that choice makes sense to the person choosing.. it really doesn't matter what others think!




Mepstein,

All you need is money! I envy you for having the resources to be able to have your car built professionally.

I for one would be interested in seeing the finished results.

FYI

The link you posted does not work!

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...4838&st=300

I hope and pray you possess Jeff Hail skills.
A good thread for you to go through would be Jeff Hail"s "Bringing out the Dead".

Good Luck with whatever decision you decide to make.

Neil Young was right..."Rust Never Sleeps!".

All the best.

Vysoc

Thank you for your link. I understand from reading it that someone else is helping you along the way. Regardless of who is doing the work this has given me some inspiration. I would say that in the area of concern your car and mine have equally concerning damage. Mine might even be worse. Only getting in there will allow me to see the truth.

This project will be like a hobby.. limited time to really get into it. I am a full time student and work 55-60 hours a week. My weekends are reserved for school work. This will inevitably cause a delay in progress. I am okay with this a hobby like this shouldn't be rushed.

Again I thank you for sharing your progress




I may not have Jeff's skills, but my best friend works in fabricating and loves this kind of stuff. Together we have built some incredible things.

I plan to share the progress as I go. Although there be several days and weeks between updates.

Thanks for the luck!

Cheers

Nemi

I did not say you are dumb. I said your statement was "possibly dumb". Stating you're going to take on a challenge because people told you not to is very Second Grade. This is not a statement from a rational adult.

If you want to tackle this because you like a challenge or like wasting your money or like wasting your time. Please do. I wish you the best of luck.

BTW, you are looking at Thousands of dollars of repairs. There is reward in completing a project yourself. I am not knocking that. Your car is not a good starting point for a project.

To each his own...

Mike,

I did not join this form to bicker with a grown man. You are entitled to your opinion and I except it as just that. I value any opinions.. even the ones that are negative.

For you to assume this is a waste of money and time, is to assume that everyone on this forum that has done exactly what I am engaging in is also a waste of their money and time.

I have seen some amazing things done with these cars on this forum. There is some real inspiring projects here. Why should I use that? Is that the point of a forum like this?

Why you think this project is a lost cause I may never know... I have seen far worse 914's returned to working condition.

You sir do no know me well enough to assume my state of mind. For you to assume I am not rational and making reference to my comments as seconds grade speaks volumes of your character!

All this crap aside, I really do appreciate your feedback on the cost vs starting point. I have taken this into consideration and have actively been searching for alternatives. In fact if I could find a way to TX there is an amazing deal on a perfect tub here on the forums. Some things are not meant to be I guess...

Thank you for the luck! Apparently I'll need it.

Please forgive my lack of filter.

Knowing Mike, he has nothing but good intentions and is just trying to make sure your eyes are wide open as you consider your path. We all love to see these cars returned to driving condition and more.

We are all aware of projects that being with all of the best intentions and then rust rears its ugly head and reality sets in. For some, it is best to consider another approach. Others steel themselves and tackle even the most hopeless appearing project and turn them into beauties. It all depends upon your skills and commitment - both with your time and wallet.

Regardless, post tons of pictures. It's what we live for as we live vicariously through other build threads. Best wishes.

Mike,

Nothing to forgive as you have nothing to be sorry for. I understand that things can be miss perceived in forum conversations.

If I came off too harshly in response to your great advice, than for that I apologize to you. Given the scale of my project I need allies not enemies!

Cheers brother!



I should hope if the time comes that I must admit defeat that Mike is the first to step up and say "I told you so".

In the last 48 hours I have had some time to think. While I have not given up on the 74 I have put some serious thought into the tub for sale on this forum. Only problem is its in TX and I am in CA. That there tub would be perfect for me given the condition of my current 914.

Ehh, if its meant to be it will work out! I am certain there will be another tub that comes along.

Cheers and thanks for the wishes!

Nemi

You live in the right state
That TX tub is very sweet!
And there are nice ones from time to time in CA

I sent the seller a PM asking about it... might be sold pending payment! Didn't think a deal like that would last long.

I'm still on the fence on which direction I'll be going. I need to spend a bit more time looking at the current tub.

Updated June 14th,

So I had some time to spend with the Porsche today. Took a pressure washer to it and knocked of some paint. Not overly enthused about what I found. Apparently I overlooked this when I first took a look at the car. Must have been my excitement.... which usually gets the best of me!

Anyhow... the pictures speak for themselves:

At some point this Originally Black 74 had some Green 70 pieces put on it... I'm no body worker, but it looks like the work was done well for its time... took me some time to locate the seams. Whatever the reason to replace the outer fender didn't interfere with the inner fender as the VIN is still in place. However the entire inner fender, headlight bucket and part of the front was replaced.

Enjoy the pics:



Looks like they stopped here! Everything to the right of it is black and not green



Inner fender VIN location. Matches whats on the Door as well as what is on my Title.



Hard to see whats stamped, but you can just see the first 3 of the VIN... clearly shows a 1970



fender well:


The journey gets more and more interesting!

Update:

Doesn't look like I'm getting much interest but I'll keep updated nonetheless.

Got a chance to remove the fuel tank today. Looks pretty underneath... I was expecting bad.

I'll have a few pictures uploaded of today's work.

For those that follow... thanks for viewing.

Cheers

Nemi

You live in California, the home of nearly rust free cars. I live in New Jersey, the home of rust buckets. I was in your shoes, 40 years ago, when I bought my first Triumph TR4. I was all gung ho and bought the first one I looked at. After the excitement wore off and looking it over as you are doing, I came to the conclusion I had a parts car. I later found a near perfect TR4 and sold the first car for parts. Lesson learned. I purchased a 75 914 three years ago from an owner in York, PA. The reason I purchased it was that it had a California title. The floor pans, trunks and longs were solid. There was some rust along the rear firewall due to the rear window leaking and the hell hole had some issues. The car sat on jack stands for a year as I pulled the motor, fixed the rust issues, rebuilt the suspension, brakes, fuel injection, and a whole lot more. Again, it was a California car, and still needed a lot of work.

My point is keep this car for parts and look for a solid tub in CA. They come up quite often, just be patient. This will give you a solid and SAFE car to start your project. Better yet, sell this car and take the money you would have spent and get a nice solid driver that you can enjoy while restoring it. Nothing is more disappointing than spending lots of time and money, becoming frustrated, and loose interest with your project. Look in the classifieds, there are many unfinished projects for sale that had good intentions. Trust an old mans judgment, been there, done that. Like Kenny Rodgers says, "you have to know when to hold'm, know when to fold'm, know when to walk away and when to run".

Looking at your car it looks like it came from New Jersey. Unless you are a very experienced welder and tin bender with a shop and all the equipment, I would run. Click to view attachment