I decided to burn up 5 hours of time today to understand the new CA smog law that goes into effect April 1, 2005 here in California. I have a 1976 2.0 that I don't want to smog anymore.

AB2683 has some language written in it that gives some wiggle room to 1976 cars. 1975 and older cars are exempt from smog tests as of April 1st. Non-ops have no problem either.

On the DMV website and in some of the language of the assembly bill it states "manufacture date" and "model year". Since my car was built in November of 1975 I am trying to have the car declared smog exempt per the AB.

I talked and/or visited the following in order:

1. DMV
2. Smog Referee
3. Bureau of Consumer Affairs -- Automotive Repair

Not to anyone's surprise, DMV didn't know what to make of the language in the bill. After speaking with 3 nice people at the local office (a main DMV I might add), they referred me to the CA DMV Smog Referee station.

I spoke with the Smog Referee. Surprisingly, they were well prepared for the answer. The gentleman I talked to said that to his knowledge, the law is being interpreted as "model" year not "manufacture date" by the state government. He explained that my car was classified "model year" and therefore would need smog tests till the end of time as we know it. (He was actually pretty funny, a pleasant fellow). He did say there were some loopholes that might be exploited, and referred me to the Bureau of Consumer Affairs -- Automotive Repair.

I called the Bureau. The have a very easy phone option menu to follow, and was connected to a nice lady. She reiterated the Referee's position, but patched me through to THE GUY at the Bureau. I spoke to Glen. Glen was very polite and started to laugh when I told him my story, not out of disrespect but because he said I was about the 100th guy to call him over the last month. He said the biggest majority of calls are from RX-7 owners, it costs them an arm and a leg to keep their cars smogged. Anyway, he had a very prepared statement, the same as the referee and his assistant. The "model year" determines smog. Ahhhh....but the loophole....given that the legislation does not take effect until April 1st, all cars needing to renew registration from Jan 1st through March 31st get the FREE PASS....SMOG EXEMPT....even if they are model year 1976.

I explained to Glen that my car is not due for registration until November 2005. He responded politely that "you're SCREWED" He then went on to say that the AB was a POS and that the guys who drafted it couldn't be car guys because why would you chop up a model year like that.

I explained to him my 914 V8 desires and he actually said he's worked with several people on the 914, Mazda RX-7 and Datsun Z car SBC conversions. He said normally they are done really well and he likes working with people on getting them to pass smog. He said to give him a call and he'd help me anyway he could when I started my project.

So....If anyone's 1976 914 registration is due Jan 1st through Mar 31st, you should be able to get a smog exemption. You may need to end up talking with Glen at the Bureau, but he says he'll back the exemption.

Looks like I still have to sell my '76....bummer.

Bill P.

Wow Bill, good info. I now wonder if I should have sold my 76 2.0. With this info I could, maybe, have kept it.

George

Got a last name and number for "Glenn"?

wow...what a lot of leg (phone) work

QUOTE

Looks like I still have to sell my '76....bummer.

so putting a smog legal conversion motor in the car is out of the question?? I'd think any of the chevy motors from the last 10 years or so would be a nice swap...plenty of smog legal hot-rod parts for them....

the new Z06 is going to have 500hp direct from the factory

If your car is due for registration between 1/1 and 3/31, is it exempt forever or until it's due again in '06?

Mike,

Glen's number at the Bureau of Consumer Affairs -- Automotive Repair is:

1-800-952-5210

You need to hit the button for the Automotive Repair section (I can't remember it).

Bill P.

According to Glen, the FREE PASS on smog is good for life for cars with Registration between Jan 1st through March 31st. I would get that in some kind of writing.

As far as newer SBC swaps, he was all for them. He said just collect CARB approved aftermarket parts (exhaust headers, manifolds, etc.) and make it work. I didn't go into with him about a crate motor. He recommended pulling everthing needed from one donor vehicle and supplementing with CARB approved parts.

Like I said, nice guy.


Bill P.

OK,
Here's a far fetched idea....

Sell the car to your wife, brother, best friend or close relative.

At the time of the purchase, They will may force the new purchaser to smog the car...

Great..!!! Doesn't matter..........

Then turn in the plates for new ones... This is important. Starts the date over from your new purchase date.

That means the smog exempt status will revert to that purchase date... (before the deadline) (I hope)..

If you get all of this done before March 31st...

The TAG on the plate will then be a Feb. or March tag.
Therefore you are exempt from smog.

This is just a guess and I haven't really thought it through...

Just might work..!!!!

Twystd1

Twystd1,

I love your train of thought, but I already tried going there. The Bureau said they are not keying off of the smog per se on change of title. It is by date of annual registration. I can sell the car tomorrow, but the annual registration date remains November for my car. I would just pay transfer of title and produce an updated smog certificate.

Nice try though.....

Bill P.

Bill,
That sucks. I will give you a set of 74 vin number tags.

Her's another one for ya..

I have Lien purchased 3 cars in the last year...

The date of transfer was the date that the lien tranfer happened.

And I got new tags for that the month of transfer...

This fulfills the loohole law that the DMV guy said you can use...

I essence. If I understand you correctly.

The loophole will allow a 76 car to be registered as a 75 "IF" the tags/registration date is before Mrch 31st..

The whole game is to get the tags and the registration changed to a BEFORE March 31st date...

Therefore you comply with the loop hole..

Or am I on crack?

Twystd1

Stole from another thread...

You're right, it's not in the CVC. It's in Health and Safety:

39038. "Model year" means the manufacturer's annual production
period which includes January 1 of a calendar year or, if the
manufacturer has no annual production period, the calendar year.
In the case of any vehicle manufactured in two or more stages, the
time of manufacture shall be the date of completion of the chassis.

I like this.....

Twystd1

"the assembly bill it states "manufacture date" and "model year"

Fight the law as being "un-constitutionally vague"...that's how they got rid of the 'speed for conditions' law.

Starting to look like I'm gonna have to move 10 miles away to register mine due to emission laws here in Colorado.....feel your pain!

next start working to get Arnold out of Sacto next election as payback.

Arnold is toast....he trying to screw with public sector retirement....no one screws with the teachers, fire weenies and cops and lives.....

if you want my 74 vin tags, just trade me......mine are good. I WILL NOT TAKE SEEING ANOTHER 914 DROPPED BECAUSE OF GOV'T

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Feb 23 2005, 08:52 PM)

if you want my 74 vin tags, just trade me......mine are good. I WILL NOT TAKE SEEING ANOTHER 914 DROPPED BECAUSE OF GOV'T

highly illegal and shouldn't even be discussed....

Yup....not a really good idea to discuss on the list....

On an another note...a buddy with a 76 930 built in 75....like it matters, is gonna try the exemption thing. I gave the link to this thread...he has a pristine roller sitting in his garage with a 10 year non op on it....ready to register.....if it works he owes Bill a dinner....

Bill P.

Great job!

Thank you

Mike Z.,

I hope your buddy can get it through. Update us if he is able to use the loophole.

Now on to plan "B" for the V8 conversion. Problem is, I don't have a plan "B".

I hate giving up on clean cars....

Bill P.

Thanks....

BTW....if you take a COMPLETE motor from say a late 80s V8 that was a STICK...not an AUTO, the ref will pass it...it has to have the STOCK intake and exhaust with cat IF it had one....do some research...you should be able to find one....

Hi Mike,

Yep, Glen at the Bureau suggested just that. He said that I should try my best to yank everything needed from one donor car. Keep the donor car records, pics, anything that would help with evidence where the motor and parts came from.

Does the FI fit under the 914 hood? I keep remembering that there are fitment issues with non-carbed SBC's, or is it just the ease, cost and simplicity of the carbed motors that makes them desireable? I'd have to learn more about the electronics if I went that route.

I should call Renegade, Simpson, and Desert Hybrids......

Bill P.

I know a guy in Ohio that is doing an FI and turbo'd V8....Ed Secrest...he occasionally posts on this board....if you can't find an of his posts....PM me and I will put you in touch.

Update....the 930 got registered...BUT....he's only exempt until 2007 when he needs to smog it under the CURRENT reg.....stoopid freakin law.....even the guy at the State said the law was badly written,,,IF they amed the law....which they need..(my comment) he MAY get a pass and be permanently exempt...

Be advised...this ALL second hand.....

damn suby swaps sound even better, mine is running obd2, did i mention it IS running, the only exception is the egr, but i did not need to remove it, i just did

i would bet that almost any modern engine could would pass smog, using the stock fi. its just a matter of time and a little money. not including engine i spent less than a new mps costs

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Feb 25 2005, 07:53 PM)

damn suby swaps sound even better, mine is running obd2, did i mention it IS running, the only exception is the egr, but i did not need to remove it, i just did i would bet that almost any modern engine could would pass smog, using the stock fi. its just a matter of time and a little money. not including engine i spent less than a new mps costs

depending on the year of the donor vehicle, the hardest part might be the gas tank, the stock tank will have to be fitted with the correct sensor to ensure that the evap system works correctly...I think it is looking for positive pressure...on one of our newer cars, the check engine light would go off, turned out that we didn't close/twist the gas cap all the way a few times.....


hmmmm.....how much smog stuff did the Turbocharged Buick Grand Nationals have?

BTW...the engine/vin # HAS to be a stick oriented donor motor....if it's an automatic...yer fucked...they won't pass it...different engine controls....

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 25 2005, 07:07 PM)

... the hardest part might be the gas tank, the stock tank will have to be fitted with the correct sensor to ensure that the evap system works correctly...

not really i just used resistors to make the brain think the gas gauge and gas temp where hooked up. and as far as the purge system working it works just like a 914 system but it draws its air through the intake at both ends not through the fan housing at the supply end. and the tank being pressurized is easy too you just take the stock purge line to the purge fitting on the over flow and cap off the drain

the refs dont have enough info on the newer systems due to the fact that the other stuff that you dont hook up like the fuel seperator is not part of the emission stuff its a fuel system part, and in effect the overflow tank acts like the seperator, its job is not to allow splashes to get sucked through the purge line

This thread is very interesting.

This 76 roller that I just got hasn't been registered since 1987 and so I could get it registered now before the end of the month and maybe get away with it. But from Mike's 930 friend's experience it doesn't seem like it really works. hrm. I might try it anyway and see what my results are.

Anyone else have experience trying this out?

-Tony

Bill,

You could look into an interim V6 conversion with all the stock smog equipment. After a successfull inspection, you can replace it with a V8 and you will already have the tranny and cooling system installed...
The only downside is you may have to swap it every 2 years...

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Mar 4 2005, 11:26 PM)

This thread is very interesting. This 76 roller that I just got hasn't been registered since 1987 and so I could get it registered now before the end of the month and maybe get away with it. But from Mike's 930 friend's experience it doesn't seem like it really works. hrm. I might try it anyway and see what my results are. Anyone else have experience trying this out? -Tony

To reiterate....he was able to register it w/o smog. There is no clear direction from DMV as to WHAT will be the regs in 2007 for a car that was registerd as exempt then has to go back in and be smogged. My bet is that they will prolly exempt them....the retroactive issue will be a nightmare.....DMV/BAR willl prolly print up some cute little exempt stickers and slap them in the door....

I own a 1976 914 with registration that expires March 12th. Am I to try to get it smogged this year as it well be declared "smog exempt" and I won't have to go through the smog issues ever again? If this is the case, I will get smog done this week and let you all know how well this works.

Bill,
I just remembered one of the V8 911 guys and one of the 944 V8 guys in our V8 Porsche "group" went through a ref station a year ago... I'll see if I can get some details...
Felix

QUOTE (mrmeade @ Mar 6 2005, 03:13 AM)

I own a 1976 914 with registration that expires March 12th. Am I to try to get it smogged this year as it well be declared "smog exempt" and I won't have to go through the smog issues ever again? If this is the case, I will get smog done this week and let you all know how well this works.

The point is to get it registered BEFORE the new law goes into effect....hoping that the ones that do so in the early part of 2005 will be exempt again in 2007. Smogging it now would prolly negate that.

Call the official listed earlier in the thread and get the information on how to do it...

I'd try getting the car registered without the smog cert first and see what they say. As Mike Z says, you can call the Bureau to see if you can get clarrification.

Felix,

Let me know what your V8 friends say about the ref. I'm debating on going for it with a smog legal V8. Some plusses to it in one sense since the car would be injected and have a CARB sticker from the referee. Still doesn't mean much as they can always change laws later, but at least I would be legal in CA eyes.

Ask your friends what is a good swap candidate (i.e. 1989 Camaro 350?). I haven't started looking at donor cars yet.

Problem is I have a line on a freshly built SBC 283 with manifolds, dizzy, intake, carb...whole enchilada, that has pretty decent price. I could do a little work on the motor to make it a revver and keep the 901 tranny. Most of the specs on any of the injected 350's say they are torquers. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't want the expense of building up my 930 gearbox right now. I've got too many bills to spend on for the completion of the race car build.

Thanks,

Bill P.

IF you do the smog legal V8 route....get a copy of their rules....any question...ask, then get it in writing...don't trust them any farther than you throw them....


Do a motor PRE OBD, get one that was a stick shift as the GM numbers on the engine will tell the ref what it was....SOME post 76 V8s did come from the factory with carbs....most came with TBI.....Edelbrock makes real nice upgrades that are CARB approved.

One queston "I" have....do you have to use a passenger car V8 or can a truck motor do? Trucks have less restrictive smog rules and controls and prolly CAN'T be used.....

Okay, I just spoke with Glen and he says that 76 cars after April 1st, no matter when they are registered will be subject to the same smog regulations as other post 76 cars. The only loophole which isn't really a loophole at all, is that until April 1, 76 cars are exempt from smog checks at change of ownership, etc.

So unless the law is repealed or changed between now ant 2007, a 76 car will require smog checks.

-Tony

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Mar 8 2005, 10:00 AM)

So unless the law is repealed or changed between now ant 2007, a 76 car will require a smog check.

IN 2007....

Hi, I've been lurking for awhile on this forum. Really nice site you have here.

I'm looking at a 76 914 here in Cali and I've been keeping an eye on this thread. I just went and checked out the car in person tonight and noticed that it was made in 09/75. Registration is over due on the car since november. Think there's any chance I could get around smog for a couple years on it? The owner is also interested in possibly keeping it if he can get around smog. I'll let him keep it if he can get around smog.

Who has the better chance of getting around smog, him or I?

My interpretation after talking with the Bureau and reading the replies on the thread is that since the car is classed as a 1976, either of you would need smog certs going forward.

The tub itself is called a '76, so there's no getting around it. Bummer.

Bill P.

Looks like the Commando has Terminated the 76. (I'm the one selling to SprinklerHead.)


Sang
Maybe I should move to Mars...no smog there! and plenty of blue skies.

I made the exact same decision. I'm selling my 76 roller as well... I thought about doing a smog legal conversion, but I already have a decent roller that I was working on, so it was hard to decide on keeping the 76. So now I'm gonig to do a Porscharu conversion on the 74

-Tony