has anyone here converted their clutch from cable to a hydraulic master and slave cylinder system? pros and cons? just wondering?

Joe Buckles v8 car has it done....

anybody else?

stupid question: pics?

search for "airsix", he has done it, as well as a few other people that have posted pictures.......


Ben used parts from Wilwood I think, 2 others have used parts from a 964 and then I believe Rich Johnson makes a kit using Ford Ranger parts........

more than one vw/porsche owner that i've spoke with(mostly vw owners) have told me to always carry extra clutch and accel. cables. i'd like to have a hydraulic clutch so i don't have to worry about it. but i'm not sure that a custom hydraulic clutch setup would be all that reliable either.

QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 25 2005, 01:19 PM)

more than one vw/porsche owner that i've spoke with(mostly vw owners) have told me to always carry extra clutch and accel. cables. i'd like to have a hydraulic clutch so i don't have to worry about it. but i'm not sure that a custom hydraulic clutch setup would be all that reliable either.

Yeah, instead of a clutch cable, you'd need MC and slave cylinder rebuild kits on hand. I've driven lots of cars with cable clutches and lots of cars with hydraulic clutches. I've yet to notice a substantial difference in reliability. One thing is most hydraulic setups will give you some warning by going flaky before failing altogether. Cables usually just let go.

Of the two, I think I'd rather replace a cable by the roadside than replace master or slave cylinders.

QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 25 2005, 02:19 PM)

more than one vw/porsche owner that i've spoke with(mostly vw owners) have told me to always carry extra clutch and accel. cables. i'd like to have a hydraulic clutch so i don't have to worry about it. but i'm not sure that a custom hydraulic clutch setup would be all that reliable either.

the cables are cheap and fairly easy to replace, you could just make sure you replace it every 1 or 2 years....

most all new cars use hydralics to activate the throwout bearing, my 911 has 70k miles with no problems from it's original hydralic system....

i see what you mean. all the cars i've had were hydraulic clutch. it's just what i'm used to i guess. i like the way the hydraulic clutch feels a little better. it would be easier to do roadside repairs on the cable tho.

i have it on my v-8. it came that way from the PO

i may be swapping the tranny on Sat. i'll take some pics of the setup.

QUOTE (joe buckle @ Feb 25 2005, 02:12 PM)

i have it on my v-8. it came that way from the PO i may be swapping the tranny on Sat. i'll take some pics of the setup.

cool stuff. i'm curious what the setup would look like since the clutch cable is a pull type.

Here's a site with fuzzy pictures of the underside of Rich Johnson's ride: Rich Johnson's 914. One has a picture of the clutch setup. The slave cylinder I believe is from 944. Not sure what he did on the master cylinder side.

QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 25 2005, 03:33 PM)

QUOTE (joe buckle @ Feb 25 2005, 02:12 PM) i have it on my v-8.  it came that way from the PO   i may be swapping the tranny on Sat.   i'll take some pics of the setup. cool stuff. i'm curious what the setup would look like since the clutch cable is a pull type.

If you're using a stock 914 setup that "pulls" aftwards using a pulley, then you'd just place the slave cylinder forward of the arm to push it backwards (obvious a bracket would need to be fabricated). The setup in the Rich Johnson photos using a later pull type clutch where the clutch arm actually moves forward, and wouldn't need a pulley on a cable system. His slave cylinder is therefore aft of the arm and pushes it forwards.

QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 25 2005, 06:33 PM)

QUOTE (joe buckle @ Feb 25 2005, 02:12 PM) i have it on my v-8.  it came that way from the PO   i may be swapping the tranny on Sat.   i'll take some pics of the setup. cool stuff. i'm curious what the setup would look like since the clutch cable is a pull type.

Wilwoods slave cyl. pulls. I've got one mounted on a 901 sideshift now.

Bob

QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 25 2005, 02:19 PM)

i'd like to have a hydraulic clutch so i don't have to worry about it. but i'm not sure that a custom hydraulic clutch setup would be all that reliable either.

I've got an 87 Acura Legend I bought new. I've had to replace the clutch flex hose to the slave cylinder three times so far. It fails without warning. I've replaced the slave and master cylinders at least once, maybe twice. This car has 160K on it. So instead of a cable breaking, it's a hose bursting. Either way it pisses you off.

QUOTE (BIGKAT_83 @ Feb 25 2005, 04:22 PM)

QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 25 2005, 06:33 PM) QUOTE (joe buckle @ Feb 25 2005, 02:12 PM) i have it on my v-8.  it came that way from the PO   i may be swapping the tranny on Sat.   i'll take some pics of the setup. cool stuff. i'm curious what the setup would look like since the clutch cable is a pull type. Wilwoods slave cyl. pulls. I've got one mounted on a 901 sideshift now. Bob

how'd you mount it? i'm guessing a custom braket in place of the pulley setup thingy.
did you make it yourself or did you have a shop fab it up?

QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 25 2005, 07:47 PM)

QUOTE (BIGKAT_83 @ Feb 25 2005, 04:22 PM) QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 25 2005, 06:33 PM) QUOTE (joe buckle @ Feb 25 2005, 02:12 PM) i have it on my v-8.  it came that way from the PO   i may be swapping the tranny on Sat.   i'll take some pics of the setup. cool stuff. i'm curious what the setup would look like since the clutch cable is a pull type. Wilwoods slave cyl. pulls. I've got one mounted on a 901 sideshift now. Bob how'd you mount it? i'm guessing a custom braket in place of the pulley setup thingy. did you make it yourself or did you have a shop fab it up?

Made it myself. I'll take some pix's this weekend. The slave cyl. is no problem at all. Its the master cyl thats hard to fit using the stock clutch pedal.

QUOTE (BIGKAT_83 @ Feb 25 2005, 05:52 PM)

QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 25 2005, 07:47 PM) QUOTE (BIGKAT_83 @ Feb 25 2005, 04:22 PM) QUOTE (mattillac @ Feb 25 2005, 06:33 PM) QUOTE (joe buckle @ Feb 25 2005, 02:12 PM) i have it on my v-8.  it came that way from the PO   i may be swapping the tranny on Sat.   i'll take some pics of the setup. cool stuff. i'm curious what the setup would look like since the clutch cable is a pull type. Wilwoods slave cyl. pulls. I've got one mounted on a 901 sideshift now. Bob how'd you mount it? i'm guessing a custom braket in place of the pulley setup thingy. did you make it yourself or did you have a shop fab it up? Made it myself. I'll take some pix's this weekend. The slave cyl. is no problem at all. Its the master cyl thats hard to fit using the stock clutch pedal.

thats what i figured about the master cylinder. theres not alot of room at the pedal cluster to fit something in there. that seems to be where the difficulty is.

btw, look at the quote section...^^^^^...i'm getting dizzy...

Mueller was close. Someone else here used a Willwood pull-type slave. I used one from CNC (they make bug and buggy stuff). It's the same part. I think CNC makes it and Willwood repackages it, so either one will be the same deal.

Install Cons: Real pain-in-the-behind to install the master cyl. I had to cut-up/weld-up the pan a bit to fit the Tilton master cyl I used. Some other people here have done clutch master cyl installs that I think were cleaner using different parts (including one with a 944 pedal-box that was a near bolt-in).

Install Pros: The slave cyl and plumbing were a breeze. The clutch tube is big enought to run a steel hard line through. Then just use a $6 flare tool to put ends on the line after you run it though the tunnel. Awesome. Mounting the slave cyl was also simple. I connected the slave cyl to the hard line with a flex brake hose. Since the MC is physically lower than the slave I installed a 2# check valve to prevent drainback.

Daily use Cons: None. In my project thread I commented about engagement hesitation that I attributed to the check-valve not flowing enough, but it might have also been too tight a bore in the MC (or something else?). Anyway it went comlpletely away after about 100 miles. I would rate it's function at 100% now. I can't imagine it working any better and I'm very happy with it.

Daily use Pros: I run a 3,300lb pressure plate and it feels like a stock clutch. Probably my #1 favorite feature is no more monthly cable adjustments due to stock cable stretch. Also, I know that my monster clutch isn't ripping out the clutch tube mounts.

-Ben M.

Here is a picture of Joe's setup, this is before we did much to it. We are dropping the trans now to replace with his beefed up newly rebuilt one. Pretty self explanitory.

I will also take pictures of the front where the pedal was installed in a little while.

My slave-side install looks exactly like that.
-Ben M.

QUOTE (skline @ Feb 26 2005, 11:28 AM)

Here is a picture of Joe's setup, this is before we did much to it. We are dropping the trans now to replace with his beefed up newly rebuilt one. Pretty self explanitory.

that looks pretty simple. the master cylinder is probably a little more "interesting".

One big advantage to me was putting it back in after swapping the tranny. three bolts off, three bolts on. NO ADJUSTING!!

H gear makes a big difference on the hwy.

Sorry guys, got tied up working on all the cars I forgot to take pictures of the front pedal assembly. Maybe next time I go to Joes I will snap one or two. Or maybe Joe can do it.

QUOTE (skline @ Feb 26 2005, 01:28 PM)

Here is a picture of Joe's setup, this is before we did much to it. We are dropping the trans now to replace with his beefed up newly rebuilt one. Pretty self explanitory.

Make sure that you repack that CV joint. In the picture it is missing the gasket and it as slung grease everywhere. If you don't repack it, it's gonna wear out real fast!!!

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Feb 26 2005, 06:08 PM)

QUOTE (skline @ Feb 26 2005, 01:28 PM) Here is a picture of Joe's setup, this is before we did much to it. We are dropping the trans now to replace with his beefed up newly rebuilt one. Pretty self explanitory. Make sure that you repack that CV joint. In the picture it is missing the gasket and it as slung grease everywhere. If you don't repack it, it's gonna wear out real fast!!!

He did put in gaskets when he reassembled it. I offered him the CV joint grease but he said, "I already put it all together!" Hmmmm