Shit.
Click to view attachment

Holyy Fuch!

What is odd is that he rods look intact below that.
I would have assumed it was one of those rods broke to punch a hole in the case right there.
Something else came apart and got between the crank and the case.

.... or you get a new case, or new motor (used/rebuilt of course), or buy/build that 2056, 2270 or whatever that you've always wanted in there!

Not necessarily the end of the world, assuming the rest of the car is solid.

Otherwise, sell the parts off & look for another better candidate.

Good Luck with whatever you do!
Tom
///////

Instant wall ornament or coffee table ...

it was a 2.7 with nickies. 103 by 80 with ham heads....ceramic lifters, etc....toast.

I found oil rings on top of the motor. Pistons surly trashed. cylinders I am not sure of, but most likely toast. shit pile of $$ down the drain.

How many miles were on the moter ?

Didjoo blow up a piston? Once the piston is gone the rod will fly up and poke a hole in the roof...

don't know on mileage. new heads and cam installed last year or so. 1 season of autocross, then my son nailed a curb, just got the chassis fixed and the motor back in. so really only 10 miles or less and maybe a half hour on the motor after the crash. In all reality, that is most likely when something was damaged.

SO what punched the hole?
Normally it's pretty obvious, but the mode of failure would suggest a rod, but they look intact. Did a cap on the back of the rod come off and get between the rotating assembly and top of the case?

I do have a data log when it let loose...about 6500 rpm...

I just towed it home. Too disgusted to look further. Rods look ok. main bearing and case looks like it took a dump.

Very sorry to see but its not the end. If your not a track rat build something less of a time bomb like a 2056.
'
I would very much like to know more about the build and parts used if you would like to vent.
May I suggest you start with a 1.7 case and build up.

at least one piston must have come apart. Oil control rings on top of the motor...it was smoking a little bit and the oil light went on....

Crap!

That royally sucks...hopefully someone has a running motor they can sell you cheap so you at least have a runner for the summer!

I have another 2.0 core that I have never run. possibility. want to trade for a 6?

Wow! So sorry- no one wants to see that. Hopefully you can find a good running motor to drop in and drive while you build up another motor for crazy power..... or not.

Oil light on at 6500 RPM. That's spooky. If a rod pin holding the top of a piston shears it could have pushed the piston skirt hard enough into the case without leaving the engine.
Time to do some improvements?

bit of a hole then

A little JB Weld, and I'm sure it'll be as good as new!

--DD

i betcha the crank broke and the counter weight smacked the case and made that nice big window.

It was along time ago pulling up out of the boot between 8 and 9 at Watkins Glen

Mine was a little more obvious....Rod bolt snapped

these poor little things just were meant to run at 6k and up

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

That is more what I had expected to see.



Just a WAG, but I bet if he looks around the engine bay enough he will find a wrist pin.

Charles will build you one cylinder, but I'm sure you have to buy a full set of JE's.

Or...now's a good time for a six

oil light came on after the bang....along with a lot of smoke out of the new breather vent. motor was still running, just knocking a little...

Did you snap the crank?? I'd be interested in seeing the tear down and identifying what failed.
Guess this is an excuse to build a bulletproof motor now.

I will tear it apart some day. just not today. 4 bolts and I can drop it. I have another core engine that might run. couple of days to swap it out and set up the injection.

this motor represents about 12K down the tubes....no $$ for another one...

Wow bummer man. Sorry to see that . I have a spare GA case if you need it. Well lower end is complete. Just no heads or pistons.

I think those pistons are a known issue. I had the same problem with my 2270. blew up the drivers side rear piston, rod came through the roof and destroyed the case.

Pistons in general or JE's?

If you had iron cylinders (2270 usually do) you likely had Keith Black hypereutectic pistons, Nickies would be forged JE pistons.

Herb was running JE/Nickies.

6500 RPM seems a bit much? Have you routinely run it that hard at auto-cross? I don't really know that much about a big four like yours but am I wrong about maybe over revving? Should it have been able to take that kind of stress?

I am sorry for your loss. One more nail in the coffin of my thoughts to stay with a T4.

i saw two motors do that one was caused by a lean mixture causing heat and pre detonation, made a similar hole in the case

You mean after the lean condition took out a piston?

What a bummer! Keep racing. $hit happens.

yes, it went lean caused a cylinder to ping, caused the piston to explode, after all that a piece of the piston ended up somewhere over the crank, so when the crank spun back around it hit the piece of piston and came straight through the case.

yep, I think you nailed it. Piston broke at the wrist pin. That must have been the chunk of metal I saw on the top of the motor. why is another question. I will have to look at the data log to see how rich/lean it was. Tuning was the same as I ran all last year. It could have been a lazy injector.

These were JE forged pistons. Type IV.
see the picture to the left...that is before....

I have to see what I can salvage. Heads I hope, exhaust, crank. I have a stock 2.0 core. How long to install and get it running I will have to see. I had an autocross scheduled for the 18th.

I have run this motor up to 7K. 6600 is my redline.

Last time on the AX last year, everything was good. I will do a post on it.
pics later as everyone loves carnage.

picture showing piston parts...

Click to view attachment

7000rpm on a T4 is huge
My first guess would be that you have been floating valves for a long time and a seat/valve/guide let go.

Yes, definitely rev related.

Hmmmm, subi?

Not ready 2 call it rpm related yet. Everything was set up for 7k. Ran it for entire season last year with no issues. Problem after curb crash seemed to be when it started.

Looks like it might be #3?
It's supposedly the hotter of the 4, if so I would suspect detonation. With a properly balanced motor 6500 should not be much of an issue. If you have anything on the temp data, you may find a smoking gun.
Were you running a higher octane gas? If not, may have been an issue.

I'm sorry for your loss on this, but we can all learn from it.

Car sat Since last year? Old gas with fouled injector? Ouch!

#2 cylinder

That sort of loss is agonizing. It'll take some time to recover. You may find that more pieces are salvageable than you're expecting.

But as you look towards the next motor solution, I don't think big T4 and high rev go together. Especially with 103s. You need torque? Build a big bore stroker. You need extra RPM range? Build a short stroke motor and lighten the drivetrain. I know people have built high-rev, big-bore motors. My point is that it takes a ton of work, a ton of knowledge, and a ton of time to be successful. Building a smaller motor, built for high-rev, has a much greater safety margin.

When the time comes to pick up the pieces and start again, if you still want to build a rev-motor, I would suggest keeping the crank and moving to a 96mm bore. Invest in head work and a cam that flows a ton of air, and you'll have a motor that makes great power at high RPM and can rev, but hardly does anything at low rpm.

Truly a bummer. Sorry :-(

What is the connecting rod ratio? It has been so long since I build a franken engine I can't even remember the formula to figure it out. But using the formula will give you an indication of what to expect for a max rpm range. What I do remember from my BMW 2002 hot rod engine days is by increasing the length of the rod I could go from 1.6875 to 1.7. increasing the RPM range. What we found was with stock rod lengths at approaching 6900 rpm's (extended bursts) the rod would actually jerk the wrist pin and the rod would shear at the pin. By moving the ratio to 1.7 we were able change the harmonics and rod sweep and safely rev the engine to 7000 and live there all day.

I don't remember the rod ratio, but they were type 1 rods with chevy journals.
I would like to keep the heads as they are new and are LE200's on a 103mm register.

Hard to see, but cylinder #2. Piston is missing so you can see the valves in the mirror. Lots of room to look inside the new window.

Crap, head is pretty damaged. piston is gone.


Click to view attachment

I saw a 944 swallow some water and do that once...

Damn, sorry for your loss Herb. Wait for it..............................................................................................................OK, as one of the unofficial Suby Cheer Leaders , I can say you wouldn't be out but a couple of K if that were a Suby. And it's not that hard to convert one.