As many of you know, my roots are in early 70's and 80's GM muscle cars. Before the two 914s I've owned, I had a 34,000 original mile 1977 Pontiac Trans Am-400, 4spd. Before that, was a 1980 Chevy Elcamino, with a 396 BB stuffed under the hood. Before that was a 1981 Chevy Z-28.... and the list goes on.

I'm sure you can understand........ Although I love the 914, the open air roadster feel, etc........ I miss the horsepower.

With that............. I can't help myself from browsing through Ebay motors at the Porsche 928s. The "S"...... the "S4"...... some of them reaching well over the 300hp range. Many appear to be in really nice condition as well.

Someone wanna tell me why they are so cheap?

Wanna tell me why I shouldn't get one??

Keep in mind, I've never even driven one, and know nothing about them. I have no intention of racing my cars, only "cruising" in the Summertime.... but I like "distinctive" cars that you don't see too often...... and the 928 definately has my attention.

Comments? Suggestions??

Prepared 928's are well balanced and fast. Call Mark Anderson at 928 International in Anaheim, California. He is the 928 man!

The 928 is a GT car....some handle OK, but it takes a lot to get there. The P-car purists hated it for two reasons...water and the front engine....

They also are not cheap to maintain....suffer from 914 type of neglect except for the pristine garage queens. I have looked at a few...the cheap ones....they were pounded on hard and put away wet. The expensive, well mainatained ones were still out of my budget and I was not willing to sell all my toys to get one...

My advice....drive a few....get the best example out there. Not much in the way for aftermarket parts compared to the 356. 914 and 911s...but there are some.

you think porsche shop prices are expensive every thing takes twice as long on a 928, due to cramped engine bay. and i have heard stories of people crunching a fender, no other damge just the fender, and the repair price was higher than they bought the car for

but they would be a good car to buy, macco paint job drive the piss out of it till it dies then buy another

PM jim912928. He rebuilt his 928. He should be able to tell ya almost anything you would need to know about them.

So the main reason people hate them is because of the repair costs??

Honestly, I'd like a car that will last me several years before any major maintenance is required.

Is there anyone here that owns one, or has owned one?? What kind of repair documentation should I look for from a previous owner? Judging by all the ebay descriptions, replacing the timing belt seems to be a pretty high-priority thing that increases the value of the car. Why??

What else should I look for?

I'm really having a hard time understanding....... a $50,000 car that appears to be in good shape (like an 8 out of 10), with reasonable mileage, everything is working, and that runs good.... going for under $10,000

My price range is $7500 to $8500, and I'd prefer to get the 300 HP car instead of the 234 HP version. I think thats the "euro spec" car or something like that??

The "cheapness" of a 928 will disapear the very first time you need to make repairs

928's are not my cup of tea, but they are great cars in their own right
Big, luxurious, comfy, lots of torque and a nice V8 growl
Excellent for long highspeed cruising
Basically, it's a muscle car that handles

Just go drive one and see for your self...

Not for that price....you'll likely be able to get a mid range beater....the bad boy 928s are still 20-30K or more.

I have seen a lot of 928 Chevy conversions....radiator and plumbing are already there....

You could consider a 944 turbo. Lots of potential in that package. Also close to 50/50 weight distribution. Clean ones run around $8k and up. The later ones start at around 240 hp and 300 hp is not an unrealistic goal. Downside, it is a 4 banger and may not satisfy your need for a V8.

Actually, if you want the "muscle" and the Porsche feel, I would think about a 914 V8 conversion. Cheap to work on, but fast as hell. I have Craigs 914 V8 right now, 400+ hp and wow, it's a monster! I would think of something like that before a 928.

QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Feb 28 2005, 07:59 AM)

Actually, if you want the "muscle" and the Porsche feel, I would think about a 914 V8 conversion. Cheap to work on, but fast as hell. I have Craigs 914 V8 right now, 400+ hp and wow, it's a monster! I would think of something like that before a 928.

I agree! I have two friends that race 928's with the POC in VO class and it takes a lot of money to go fast.... A 914 with a V8 conversion is the way I would go.

QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Feb 28 2005, 07:59 AM)

Actually, if you want the "muscle" and the Porsche feel, I would think about a 914 V8 conversion. Cheap to work on, but fast as hell. I have Craigs 914 V8 right now, 400+ hp and wow, it's a monster! I would think of something like that before a 928.

TRUST ME...... I have definately thought of that, and the thought of it definately sounds appealing.

Especially considering the fact that I know my way around a GM V-8 better than anyone I know. AND THE 914 IS BY FAR, MY FAVORITE BODY STYLE CAR EVER PRODUCED.

The PROBLEM, is that any 914 V-8 conversions I've seen are all either kinda junky looking, or they are gorgeous, and WAY over my price range.

Hey, if anyone's got a nice V8 conversion they'd like to swap, I'm all ears, just doesn't seem very realistic.--lol

I have owned 5 928's starting in 1991. My daily driver is an '84 928S with 48,000 miles on it. I love the cars, however DO NOT buy a project. Look for a low mile car with good maintenance records. Timing belt/water pump replacement is $1200 every 45,000 miles. Some guys do their own and there is plenty of internet help out there.
If the belt breaks on a 32 valve engine, pistons meet valves and it's time to install a sbc!
I sold a 3- owner '81 with 80,000 miles on Ebay last summer for less than $7000. New owner paid shipping from Oregon to Missouri. Good cars are out there for $10K or less. I prefer the 16 valve cars due to less complexity/repair costs but if you want the most power you need to get an S4 ('87 -91). The GTS (93-95) is the best of all but low milers are often $25-$40K. Then there is the decision, automatic vs 5 speed.
Autos are more common (4 speed starting in '83 is preferred).
This is the car I sold. Don't have a pic of the '84. (Oh, guess there is one in my avatar!)

QUOTE (jasons @ Feb 28 2005, 07:52 AM)

You could consider a 944 turbo. Lots of potential in that package. Also close to 50/50 weight distribution. Clean ones run around $8k and up. The later ones start at around 240 hp and 300 hp is not an unrealistic goal. Downside, it is a 4 banger and may not satisfy your need for a V8.

Yea.. the 944s are cool cars.... but I just see too many of them all over the place. You're right, great performance for the $$$, but they don't stand out in a crowd..... I like distinctive cars that you don't see everyday.

Not downing the 944 at all... great car, just not what I like.

I agree that the 928 is an excellent car. My close friend had one, which I drove on several occasions. As was mentioned, a very very good high speed road car, and very comfortable. Hugely expensive to fix! A low mileage find would probably give you a lot of value for the money. Keep it just long enough to get some utilization out of it, then sell before you need to fix anything!

Andy

But then there's the whole 'Scareface' thing...you can get out of it and say..

Say 'ello to mie little frien'



I'd get one for the engine and drop it in a 914. I think that's my plan for next year anyways...

PorscheRescue....... that car is GORGEOUS.

So a recent timing belt and water pump are the most important things to look for??

You're not the first person to say that, so I'm thinking thats the key to these cars (or at least something to start with)

I owned a 78 for 13 years. Absolutely wonderful car. Paid 8300 for it sold it or should I say traded it for a Motorcycle. Sad sad day. But it ran great just got tired of fixing the nit picky shit. passenger window intermitent need this or that here and there.
Needed a paint job badly.
I could leave most cars in the dust on the freeway. Say from 70 to 110 not many cars could keep up. Which made the 928 an outstanding cruiser for long distance hauls. 18 MPG @ 80 MPH with A/C and stereo cranking. Repair cost close to 12K over 13 yrs. I turned all the wrenches.

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Feb 28 2005, 08:32 AM)

Yea.. the 944s are cool cars.... but I just see too many of them all over the place. You're right, great performance for the $$$, but they don't stand out in a crowd..... I like distinctive cars that you don't see everyday. Not downing the 944 at all... great car, just not what I like.

I can certainly respect that. However, I don't think 928's are any more or less common than 944's. If they are less common, its probably because of attrition. The maintenance expenses generate alot of parts cars.

Maybe where you live. But around here, you'll see at least 40 to 50 944's for every one 928, maybe more.

A 928 was one of the first matchbox cars I ever received when I was a little tot. I still have it! I drove one once, but barely. My dad had a friend who managed a Chevy dealership. They got one in as a trade and he let me drive him around a bit in it, but it was an auto and he wouldn't let me get on any roads where the speed limit was over 45mph...

One of the cars on my top ten list of favorites....

A buddy has a low mile (40-50k) red 928GT. It's a great car. I love it. If I were to get a 928 that would be inspiration. They are fast cruisers. But they can be very expensive to maintain. I remember John telling me they had to raise or drop (can't remember which) the motor to get to the back plugs. Little things like that can be a pain.

There is a guy in our local region named Randy Faunce. Randy has an 88 928S4 with over 300k miles on it. It was actually the Car of the Month in our newsletter for February.
CIR Region PCA Newsletter if you want to read about his car.

QUOTE (seanery @ Feb 28 2005, 09:14 AM)

I remember John telling me they had to raise or drop (can't remember which) the motor to get to the back plugs. Little things like that can be a pain.

I doubt it. I could change 8 plugs on my 928 faster than 4 on the teener. Maybe your friend had a Camaro. All the plugs on the 928 for all years point straight up and are accessed inbetween the intake runners. and removal of the air cleaner assy for the back 2 .

I was driving a 914 2.0 for 1.5 years as a daily driver and then I bought an '89 928 GT. the 914 was parked and never driven again, if that tells you something. I know I will get flamed for this but stock 914's are just not fun to drive in my opinion.

QUOTE (Pnambic @ Feb 28 2005, 09:03 AM)

Maybe where you live. But around here, you'll see at least 40 to 50 944's for every one 928, maybe more. A 928 was one of the first matchbox cars I ever received when I was a little tot. I still have it! I drove one once, but barely. My dad had a friend who managed a Chevy dealership. They got one in as a trade and he let me drive him around a bit in it, but it was an auto and he wouldn't let me get on any roads where the speed limit was over 45mph... One of the cars on my top ten list of favorites....

Honestly where I live, I'm white trash. I daily drive an 89 944S2. All I see are 911 GT's and turbos, Cayennes at every light. An old Porsche here is a 993! I'm not bragging, like I said I'm the white trash.

So, you're probabaly right. I just don't see many of either. The more I think about it, the more I realize I haven't seen a 928 in the street in a long time. Last one I saw was a friends. But I know I see 944's in the street often. Most of the ones I see are NA's not turbos. I guess "plain old" 944 NA's are turning into the new milleniums 914. Easily had for $3500 and most of them look pretty ratty.

QUOTE (jasons @ Feb 28 2005, 08:44 AM)

I can certainly respect that. However, I don't think 928's are any more or less common than 944's. If they are less common, its probably because of attrition. The maintenance expenses generate alot of parts cars.

There is a local used parts yard that has 5-6 944's that look like you could drive them. All have "Bad motor" written on the windshields. These cars have no body damage, okay paint jobs and sit on 4 tires looking like you could just hop in and go. They also have a couple of 928's in the same state. They of course have some wrecked 944's and 928's.

Now that I have said that, I love 944's and just worked a deal were my wife will have an 84' in a couple of weeks. We are selling her Jeep. I like the pre S3 928's, non-interference 16v engines. 944's are rock solid cars as long as you keep up the belt maint.

I had a few people tell me: "But when the belts go, so does the motor." Duh, so does just about every Honduh, DSM etc out there. The 944 isn't unique in that respect, just that the cars are older now, and you find TONS of 944's with 50K or more on thier timming belts or owners who say "Never replaced it". Babbling.

QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Feb 28 2005, 09:58 AM)

QUOTE (jasons @ Feb 28 2005, 08:44 AM) I can certainly respect that.  However, I don't think 928's are any more or less common than 944's.  If they are less common, its probably because of attrition.  The maintenance expenses generate alot of parts cars. There is a local used parts yard that has 5-6 944's that look like you could drive them. All have "Bad motor" written on the windshields. These cars have no body damage, okay paint jobs and sit on 4 tires looking like you could just hop in and go. They also have a couple of 928's in the same state. They of course have some wrecked 944's and 928's. Now that I have said that, I love 944's and just worked a deal were my wife will have an 84' in a couple of weeks. We are selling her Jeep. I like the pre S3 928's, non-interference 16v engines. 944's are rock solid cars as long as you keep up the belt maint. I had a few people tell me: "But when the belts go, so does the motor." Duh, so does just about every Honduh, DSM etc out there. The 944 isn't unique in that respect, just that the cars are older now, and you find TONS of 944's with 50K or more on thier timming belts or owners who say "Never replaced it". Babbling.

Mine being an S2 16v has an even higher risk of failure with the chain guide and tensioner. In fact, the one on my car failed on the previous owner. It cost him a new head, new cams etc. He used new Porsche parts not rebuilt(he was a doc. so $ was no object). His bill was $7k for that repair alone. Most of us would have to surrender in that event. With a normal 8v NA, the "total loss" threshold is even lower since its a $3500 car.

That said, I see alot of early 928's for $5000.

I had a 79. I bought it for $5k, put anouther $5k into it and then sold it for $2k. That is the short, to the point version. Buy $10k, sold $2k.

heres a thought.... smoke coming out of ears ... put a 928 motor in a 944, due to 944's being newer and more liklyin better shape.

blown 944 for 2 grand
wrecked 928 good motor 2 grand

total 4 grand for a hell of a sleeper

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 28 2005, 10:37 AM)

I had a 79. I bought it for $5k, put anouther $5k into it and then sold it for $2k. That is the short, to the point version. Buy $10k, sold $2k.

I bought mine for $24k, put a couple hundred into it for a brake line and something else at PPI, added new wheels and tires, drove it for 12k miles, and sold it for $22.5k.

A pal had one, nice car, garage Queen.

I used to look at the catalog for Performance Products and just marvel at the price of just the parts alone, and that was fifteen years ago!

Well, I appreciate all the advice from everyone. I really like the cars, but it sounds like to me, unless the car has a recently rebuilt engine, it isn't worth buying.

Honestly, I'm a SSgt in the Air Force, and I certainly cannot afford a $5,000 repair on a $5,000 car. I'll leave that for the Doctors and lawyers.

Thanks again to everyone

Matt

Recently rebuilt engine is not the answer. Not many of those around anyway. They run a long time if cared for properly. Low miles and evidence of maintenace is what you want. They are complex and things like power/electrical stuff, AC, etc. can eat you up. They are luxury cars, and as such, cost a lot. Remember, at the end in 1995, they could have a window sticker of $90K.

Just my $.02...

I think the 928 is one of the best looking Porsches ever.

My girlfriend's stepfather owns 5 944s had a 951 and couldn't resist an '87 928S4 for sale in NE. Bought it, got it half way home...then it started to get expensive real quick.

A coil wire came off one of the ignition coils, left bank of cylinders flooded and car started on fire. He was able to get it out, but has spent the last year replacing what he can afford piece by piece and trying to get it roadworthy. It seems like any new Porsche parts are ungodly expensive (try $1700+ for an air mass sensor), so almost everything needs to be tracked down used and it takes TIME.

It is a gorgeous car though. Can't wait for a chance to drive it

QUOTE (jasons @ Feb 28 2005, 08:44 AM)

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Feb 28 2005, 08:32 AM) Yea.. the 944s are cool cars.... but I just see too many of them all over the place.  You're right, great performance for the $$$, but they don't stand out in a crowd..... I like distinctive cars that you don't see everyday. Not downing the 944 at all... great car, just not what I like. I can certainly respect that. However, I don't think 928's are any more or less common than 944's. If they are less common, its probably because of attrition. The maintenance expenses generate alot of parts cars.

It totally depends on your location. I have people stop by all the time wanting to know if my 944 is for sale,I can't give away my 924, A friend tried to sell his 914 for over a year with no bites (nice car),the guy I used to work for has a friend whose 928 we worked on and we couldn't get people to stop asking about it. As far as the 944 they need the belt changed methodically. If you pay for that service have at least $500.00 handy! If you do it yourself you will need a $500.00 tool, DO NOT BUY A "CLICKER". 928 is a lot of fun and a lot of gas. Watch out for the clutch! It doesn't feel like a 914 clutch

QUOTE (scotty b @ Feb 28 2005, 05:29 PM)

[/QUOTE] If you do it yourself you will need a $500.00 tool, DO NOT BUY A "CLICKER".

You mean the Kricket tool? You don't think they work? I've heard different opinions.

Yeah the Kricket is what they call it. Maybe I'm just old fashioned or choose to believe that Porsche made the gauge for a reason. ACCURASY I have known guys to eyeball the deflection on the belt and get away with it, but with the potential damage from a flying belt I feel it isn't worth taking the chance with a Kricket.

Um yeah Pat, I'd like to swap that S for a C please

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Feb 28 2005, 07:25 AM)

every thing takes twice as long on a 928, due to cramped engine bay. and i have heard stories of people crunching a fender, no other damge just the fender, and the repair price was higher than they bought the car for

HEH If I didn't know any better I'd say he was talking about a 914. My 928 is a dream to work on compaired to my 914, but still the 928 still has a few BEAR jobs like the clutch master, motor mounts, exhaust bolts at the heads.

But otherwise everything is really well designed and very accessable. I could do a clutch on a 928 in half the time then on a 914. I changed mine in about 35min once.

I bought my 928 first and now I have a 914 as well.

928's, as someone noted, are a GT car and do everything GT well. Like high speed highway crusing and long range driving. Not bad at all on handling, braking and "kicky pop" too. However due to the weight of such a car it means that to make it preform you have to either have to make it lighter (not easy at all) or you have to pay a premium for all those preformance parts that have to work twice as hard because of the weight.

So now I am experimenting with a 914. Which for all reasons is the opposite of a 928 in Porsche circles, unless we are counting the Cyanne. The 914 is so light that to make it preform, those preformance parts don't need to be as aggressive and will be more efficient becuse of the weight.

Now not having any 914 seat time yet it's a little hard for me to compair exactly, but the 928 is almost unsurpassed on the highway and not bad around town. If you have an auto 928 it would be great in town as well, if we aren't counting how often we stop at gas stations! But by the same token a 914 should be great in town, get's great fuel economy but isn't so hot at high speeds. Now I am refering to stock cars here before anyone beats me up on that.

I've autoX my 928 for the last 7 years and I could beat all the stock 914's with my 928, but now even with all the preformance upgrades (suspension, brakes, exhaust) on my 928 I can't catch the 914's that have the similar upgrades. So this is one of my big reasons to get into a 914.

That's my 2c!

QUOTE (vortrex @ Feb 28 2005, 10:57 AM)

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 28 2005, 10:37 AM) I had a 79.  I bought it for $5k, put anouther $5k into it and then sold it for $2k.  That is the short, to the point version.  Buy $10k, sold $2k. I bought mine for $24k, put a couple hundred into it for a brake line and something else at PPI, added new wheels and tires, drove it for 12k miles, and sold it for $22.5k.

Bought mine for $3500, put $6 into it....

Not going to sell it!

Sorry all that I haven't put my 2 cents in...i've been traveling alot. There is alot of "myth" to 928's that are just that...myths. Any porsche's parts are expensive..but 928 parts are not that much more then 911 maintenance. The real horror stories come from 928 owners that have had really beaten cars. As in any beaten down car, you'll spend alot of money bringing it up to snuff...per our specs in here.

My 928 is my daily driver for 8 months out of the year. I do basic maintenance like regular oil changes, tires, etc. It is a driver! My annual maintenance is no higher on my 928 then any of my other cars including my american cars. It has never left me stranded...and you can drive it for 8 hours and feel as good as before you got in it..it is that comfortable (oh, and you can be in triple digit speeds with the sun roof open..no air coming into the compartment...and you can actually hear real music!). I've also found that I can autox my 928 faster then I can autox my 911. For a bigger GT they do handle unbelievable (51/49 weight distribution). For me, that combo...larger 95 model year sized tires/rims...and all that power make up for my inexperience. By the way, it takes me about 30 minutes to change all 8 plugs and all I need is an extension and a swivel for the back two plugs.

Now, what too look for. Don't get a beater or a project. Get a car that is driven fairly regularly (928's like to be driven). Maintained 928's are like the 3.0 and up 911's...you'll get 250k miles on the engine easy. The biggest maintenance thing to check is the regularity of the timing belt and water pump changes. The 32V engines and the 16V euro engines are the most critical on this item as they are interference engines. The 16V US engines are not interference so if it breaks you are just stranded. Now, why change the waterpump at the same time?....basically everybody does it because it's back under those covers when you change the belt. And if it ever starts leaking it will screw the belt (most likely) and on interference engines that isn't good. So, most change the pump when the belt is off. The engine isn't really very cramped in the compartment and you can work on it pretty easily. I just changed out my alternator and it took about 15 minutes to get it off.

Most of the body is aluminum so rust isn't an issue on these cars (fenders, hood, doors....the rear quarters and roof are steel). About the only place to look for rust is back around the rear decklid where debri may accumulate around the rear hatch. Probably the most important thing to check out is the wiring. The 928 has miles of wire in it...you wouldn't believe how many fuses and relay's are in this thing. If the wiring has been hacked up I'd stay clear. The 928's monitor just about everything...this is where you could spend alot of money. I'd never give up my 928. It is the most dependable and comfortable car to drive. And people still ask me when did Porsche start making that one..they can't believe it is a 25 year old car!.

If you want more info pm me and I'll send you my phone number so we can chat.

Here is a pic of my baby (forgot to add it in my post above).

Jim

p.s. when I say it is my daily driver....i drive about 100 miles a day!

I broke a belt on a 944, and threw the car away.

I like the shape of the space egg, but I would not deal well with a broken timing belt.. hello trash can.


M

Just picked up this one yesterday...
I will be in the R&M auction in Novi, MI on Apr 22.
Mark
PS its not nearly as fun as my 914.

As I said earlier, I have owned 5 928's and everything Jim said is right on. My '84 is my daily driver too, but probably average only 15-20 miles a day.

QUOTE (jim912928 @ Mar 2 2005, 04:52 PM)

Sorry all that I haven't put my 2 cents in...i've been traveling alot. There is alot of "myth" to 928's that are just that...myths. Any porsche's parts are expensive..but 928 parts are not that much more then 911 maintenance. The real horror stories come from 928 owners that have had really beaten cars. As in any beaten down car, you'll spend alot of money bringing it up to snuff...per our specs in here.

I agree 100% here. the people who say 928's are junk or too expensive to repair, have never had one!

also, to the people saying it is too big and too heavy to do this or that...well the only thing it does not do *way* better than a 914 is handle. once you cruise the highway at 145mph in relaxing fashion though you might change your mind about these cars, they are essentially a high performance tank.

It raises your eyebrows... it's hard to believe that heavy thing can get out of the way.

.... and then it does.


M

jim912928,

Thanks for all the helpful info. You definately told me what I needed and wanted to hear, no bs, nothing left out.

The basic jist of everything said (at least what I picked up), is that they are great cars, fast, fun to drive, and reliable........ if taken care of.

Here's my problem, I partially financed my 914, which is why I spent a little more than average ($7500), but it had a new engine, tranny, suspension, etc.. Obviously I cannot afford a 928 in the same condition.

I made a rule to myself to keep my "toy" cars between 6 and 8 thousand bucks (total cost including my cash + partial financing). If I sell the 914, I will undoubtedly make a few extra dollars to spend on another car. Perhaps I would feel comfortable going up to $9000.

But judging from many of the comments posted here, and after searching through ebay and the auto trader, to get one that I'd really feel comfortable with would cost me at least 13 or 14 thousand. I don't want a project car.... I want a car that I can pamper, drive in the summer, enjoy, and still make good money on when I decide to get something new. As many of you know, in 2 years, the only "repair" I've done on the teener is a new battery.

Well, I love my 914, but I don't have the cash to go doing a V-8 conversion. So I'm thinking I may wait till the end of winter and put it up for sale. I've seen less desireable 914s go for arounf 6K on ebay. I'd be happy with $6000.

My first choice will be a flared, chevy v8 conversion. If nothing comes along, I'm actually thinking about going GM again with an early 80's L82 corvette, or a late 60's BB El Camino... both are available in my price range, with a little searching.... I've been looking.

Of course, If a 928 that meets my specifications comes up, I'm going to be all over it. Here's to hoping

You could have the best of both worlds...