Oh completely understand but I always approached it from the dowl pins in the heads made it easy to locate into the cam towers and put it on as a completed unit though a bit harder to torque the heads ..

Its all good.. Keep up the good work.

Marty Schneider (MSDS) makes some awesome headers here in So Cal. He is also a really nice guy who owns a bad ass turbo 914 (6 cyl).

I know, I know... you can't turbo a 914...

Thanks man.

It truly is a learning experience and if I can help one person with anything I've come across then all this posting is worth it. I have to say that I sure have learned a lot from this site and it is one of the things that keeps me inspired it is my way of contributing. I appreciate the others who have done or are doing 6 conversions like forrestkhaag and larmo63 and I am sure there are many others.

Starting with a car this far along was perfect for me at this point in my life. My hats off to those doing the heavy lifting of major rust reapir and GT conversions. These truly are cool cars worth the effort.

Thanks for weighing in and the complement. I am fortunate that I am not in a hurry and can take the time. Rushing was never one of my strong points and I can see that In a lot of folks cars. Look at what defianty is doing with detail in the UK amazing!

Look forward to meeting you in Temecula.

Perry Kiehl Wiring harness going back in.

He sure was a major help to me when I was wiring to the chassis with MSD a while back. I have heard others also say that he what a big help he is and that is really true!

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Dropping a 935 engine in a 914 is just a whole 'nother level.

Almost ready to come off the stand

Click to view attachment

Kind a like giving birth! I took it off the stand because I was again waiting parts and top side work from here on out.

Click to view attachment

But I was not quite as ready as I thought because when I went to order new intake manifold gaskets and insulators so I could mount my manifolds and Weber 40’s, I began yet another fun educational experience. I'm hearing the intake manifolds that I have which are actual Porsche intake manifolds, that have been lightly ported and came with my project purchase, won’t work well. These great looking Porsche PN manifolds are for an early 2.0 engine and now present major complications especially when trying to use them on a 3.0 CIS to Weber conversion application. Hmmmm…….. Really?

Click to view attachment

Took me a while to buy into the concept that my recently bead blasted, beautiful ready to go manifolds, were really not a good idea to use. Made a couple calls to Richard at PMO and Paul at Performance Oriented (he did the carbs), plus contacting a few guys here on the World who have also done 3.0 conversions, and I finally came to realize that another investment was necessary. That being new PMO CIS manifolds had to be ordered.

Just when I thought all the large purchases were behind me. Man, I can’t wait to see the difference of these PMO’s, this better be worth it.

Here is another shot of the original Porsche Manifolds flange that mates to heads.
Click to view attachment

Yup those manifold will leak air because they don't cover the CIS injector cut out on the intake of the head.
Head
Click to view attachment

Recommended intake
Click to view attachment

Ant you buy some spacers that will seel up the gap.

rick 918-S, made some plates he was selling to solve that coverage, or PMO has plastic spacers that would work also..


http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=263516&hl=

Thanks for the info on the Alien plates. Sent him a PM but that post was from 2015 and I already ordered manifolds. Guess I should have done more checking around.

Yup. And i think the PMO's are too tall for our cars. Maybe not but i thought i read that in one of our threads here.

Looks like you have the 36mm ports. My Alien adapters only raise the intakes 1/8" and clear the shroud. Send me your address. I will send you a set to try. If you like them you can send me a pay pal or something.

Nothing like a high cost solution to a low cost problem.

Rick
That's for sure on the high cost solution! Well actually I have the 39mm ports in the heads. Not sure why the venturi's are 36 but that Weber stuff is beyond me, I have skills and limitations. I will double check on the PMO's "too high" part. PMO actually sells 2 CIS solutions 40/38 at 3.9 in. high and 40/36/ which are 3.25 in. high and I went with the shorter one which was suppose to work with stock air cleaner

I'll PM you

[quote name='gms' post='2521345' date='Aug 27 2017, 01:10 PM']
Yup those manifold will leak air because they don't cover the CIS injector cut out on the intake of the head.
Head
Click to view attachment

Recommended intake


PMO Manifolds received!
The original Porsche manifolds will not just bolt on CIS heads as there just isn’t the sealing surface on the manifold flange because they do not have the bump out on the flange to cover the CIS intake port scallop in the heads as gms pointed out. And they will likely crack, I’m told.

Click to view attachment

However Rick 918-S is sending some of his Alien Plates for me to check out and they will look like this. So the jury is out for now awaiting their arrival. Thanks again sixnotfour for the tip on the Alien plates!

Click to view attachment

Richard at PMO recommended the 40/38 “tall” manifolds. But the height concerned me at 3.9 inches as I wanted to leave myself the option to use a 914-6 air cleaner should I want to. I have heard from many that you just might get tired of the sound right behind your head or for longer drives and maybe to get my wife to ride in the car. So I elected to go with the 40/36 “short” manifolds at 3.25 inches. Sounds like I am necking it down I know, but Paul at Performance Oriented said that with the 36mm venturi’s in the carbs it should be fine.

The pictures are distorted a bit, because I was so close taking them, but you can see the height differences. Note the original manifolds are about 2.75 inches high.

Nice how the PMO have the rubber grommets in the manifold that the spark plug wires go through.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

And you can clearly see the differences in flanges.

Click to view attachment

I'm in a similar position at the moment Lucky 9146.

I think I have the 'tall' manifolds and am concerned they're too tall to fit correctly with the rain hats I have.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=315580

Heard from Rick 918-S that he does not have any 39mm Alien Plates at this time and he would have to make them. Plates are shown above and made for adapting original intake manifolds to cover the CIS scallops in the heads. Rick had offered to let me try them. Don’t want Rick to spend the time to make up something that I may not ultimately use, so I am going to proceed with the PMO CIS Standard Manifolds (often referred to as short, see previous postings) since I already have them. “Nothing like a high cost solution for a low cost problem” as Rick puts it.
It’s not like I can’t wait for the plates, because my progress is so darn slow, but I really was leaning toward the PMO manifolds anyway and it didn’t seem fair to Rick. Thanks again Rick for the offer!
________________________________________________________________

Now on to another time gobbler (at least in my case) is the gaskets supplied by PMO with the insulators for the intake manifolds. The good news is for the most part the insulators fit down through the engine shroud with only minor exceptions but the gaskets are far larger and require trimming.
And I thought I was just going to slap them on there! Ha!

This may seem like such a minor thing to bring up and cover but luckily for me my engine is not installed yet for performing this operation and right now I can easily see how to trim the gaskets with the engine right in front of me. I did this with a nice sharp pair of scissors.

But for someone doing this after the engine is in, man I feel for ya.

Additionally, these gaskets seem to have a lot (and I mean a lot) of loose flaky material in the bore of the gasket that unless removed and cleaned up could easily fall into the head. I also recommend running something like an old stud through the gasket stud holes prior to installing it as there is also a lot of flaky crap in those holes that goes everywhere when you slide the gasket down the intake studs. PIA

Does Not fit through the shroud at all, and this is my original shroud.
Click to view attachment

Trimmed about this much
Click to view attachment

Comparison and all the flaky loose crap
Click to view attachment

Just the gasket in place
Click to view attachment

Insulators fit pretty well and yes that's another damn flake in the hole..... I'll get it...
Another gasket goes on top the insulator and really does not need to be trimmed but might as well as it looks kinda stupid if you don't with a big ole gasket hanging over the insulator.
Click to view attachment

[quote name='Lucky9146' date='Aug 30 2017, 04:14 AM' post='2522011']
Richard at PMO recommended the 40/38 “tall” manifolds. But the height concerned me at 3.9 inches as I wanted to leave myself the option to use a 914-6 air cleaner should I want to. I have heard from many that you just might get tired of the sound right behind your head or for longer drives and maybe to get my wife to ride in the car. So I elected to go with the 40/36 “short” manifolds at 3.25 inches. Sounds like I am necking it down I know, but Paul at Performance Oriented said that with the 36mm venturi’s in the carbs it should be fine.

quote

Read your comment about the engine noise,I went back to stock over the K&N's I had,yes I know these engines sound great but I found it kinda got a bit much for me.
Difference in sound is rather noticeable,like the idea of better air filtration due to my road condition also.
Just measured clearance @ rear bulkhead and I have around 10mm with the stock plastic one,it also appears there is plenty of room to go upwards as in your case with taller manifolds ,really can't see rain hats clearing however.
Someone mentioned it depends on what conversion engine mount you have,fair point.
Keep up the good work

[quote name='porschetub' date='Aug 31 2017, 01:58 PM' post='2522800']
[quote name='Lucky9146' date='Aug 30 2017, 04:14 AM' post='2522011']
Richard at PMO recommended the 40/38 “tall” manifolds. But the height concerned me at 3.9 inches as I wanted to leave myself the option to use a 914-6 air cleaner should I want to. I have heard from many that you just might get tired of the sound right behind your head or for longer drives and maybe to get my wife to ride in the car. So I elected to go with the 40/36 “short” manifolds at 3.25 inches. Sounds like I am necking it down I know, but Paul at Performance Oriented said that with the 36mm venturi’s in the carbs it should be fine.

quote

Read your comment about the engine noise,I went back to stock over the K&N's I had,yes I know these engines sound great but I found it kinda got a bit much for me.
Difference in sound is rather noticeable,like the idea of better air filtration due to my road condition also.
Just measured clearance @ rear bulkhead and I have around 10mm with the stock plastic one,it also appears there is plenty of room to go upwards as in your case with taller manifolds ,really can't see rain hats clearing however.
Someone mentioned it depends on what conversion engine mount you have,fair point.
Keep up the good work

[/quote]

Porschetub, that you have stock air cleaners is yet another example and I also have a good friend who has a 6 conversion and he is done with the sound. I have driven it a couple of times and it sounds great to me but I guess it could wear on you after a while.
Like I said, I want to keep my options open. It never hurts.
As best I can tell the mount is set for stock engine height and was not done by me.
Good luck on yours as well!

I kinda want my car to sound raspy so my wife "won't" want to ride in it. She drives an Escalade, so she's already freaked out about a 914.

I usually drive in the car by myself, so I only have to please myself.

That's cool I get it. Who knows mine might not want to ride in it either.

Hey your car is coming right along I just was on your thread looking at your install day pics. I am hopefully not that far behind.
I may have a question or 2 for ya.
Won't have my car ready but I'll see you in Temecula.
All the best in sorting yours out.

Yesterday…….Off subject of the engine for a minute.

If you have not yet met Marty Schneider of MSDS you are missing out! What a great guy! I had heard a long time ago from mepstein that Marty had fabricated a fiberglass GT rear valance for 914-6 GT flared cars.

I was heading up to the LA area early Saturday morning for a different reason and decided on a Friday night to contact Marty and see, on a long shot, if he would meet me and sell me one of these GT flare valances. To my pleasant surprise he said he would! So I present myself to his shop at the prescribed time and there he was. Great to talk with, easy going with a wealth of information and experience, and lots of good stories. Not hurried to beet feet out of there on a very warm Saturday morning plus holiday weekend, he took the time to educate me on the nuances of the valance and make sure I understood what needed to be done for fit and finish. He even offered a 100% refund. How can you beat that! Maybe I shouldn’t have said that but I get the feeling the he treats everyone well. Sorry if I spilled the beans there Marty!

I learned from Marty that he had one of these valances molded for his own car, which had factory PN GT metal flares, and then he had some valances made to sell. Keep in mind this is NOT a tall valance but rather deals with the flared fenders instead and looks to be about the same height as a regular valance.

I know, I know, a “real GT’ has no rear valance but I kind of like the idea of a clean look and it could be removed so no harm done. So, why not?

Oh, and one last thing I got the last one he had but he said he will be making another batch of 25 sometime in the future. What a great experience (well except for LA traffic). Picture below of the valance taped in place this morning. Another future project to paint and fit. Looks like a winner! Thanks Marty
P.S. It was cool to see where my headers were made.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

That's awesome Jim. I had the same experience when I met him at his shop and picked up the headers. He is truly an ambassador of these cars and a great guy to know and converse with. Will you need to clearance the lower edge for the exhaust tip?

I like the rear valance. I have a similar one made by a guy in Germany to go on my GT. For a road car I personally think they look better with the valance than the raw GT look.

Once get to it I will be making weld flares for the stock steel valance just like I do for the rockers.

Ben - I'm just going to send you my car - and a bunch of cash. It will be easier in the long run.

Lucky - great job getting the parts together. MSDS makes awesome stuff for our cars.

Hey Rob, thanks, yes it is "some assembly required" and you have to make the cut out for the exhaust but I don't think it will be a big deal. I hope.

Thanks Mark for the tip and your other help along the way. Great community and support.

Dust off the trans.

Note that the trans had been gone through and intermediate plate added for 914-6, a new gear, bearing, and gaskets while under PO moparrobs ownership. Should be ready to go!

Click to view attachment

Next is the trans shift arm fix recommendation that comes by way of Forrestkhaag.

It’s a 10 cent fix!

He called it "the shaved head dime". Yes it takes a bit to file it down to fit in the cup hole.

Do yourself a favor and do a search and check out forrestkhaag’s posts regarding trying to resolve shifting issues on his 914-6 conversion. He truly has been through the wringer. Best of all his tip came to me via a PM from him on another subject, he just offered it. I definitely took his advise even though I already had the new bushing installed, yup I dug out a brand new never used bushing and ordered another. They do not like to come out nicely either! Scraped the arm all up trying to get the dang bushing out.

The story is that after fighting gear “nash” issues Leamon gave forrestkhaaag the same advise and it fixed it!

This is a great site!

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Replace the bushing with a dime?

Oooops sorry wasn't clear no insert the dime then install the new bushing. It is working to space the bushing up a bit is all. Changes the arm position closer to the clutch.

That makes more sense to me. Is this mod only for the 914-6 or for 914-4's as well?

May have to defer to someone with a lot more experience on that possibly Leamon who I do not know but advised forrestkhaag. I will see what else I can learn. Fair question though.

the lever arm is the same on both 914/4 and /6

I didn't do the dime bag trick and my clutch is fine.

Just saying.

Glad you got yours running yesterday! Nice work!
Oh well maybe it will help mine.

I think this modification would suit those who have machined flywheels ,I would say that a shim washer under the pivot ball would do the same thing,I don't really know if there is enough thread to support that,surely would do the same job.
Reason I mentioned as I believe I have the same issue as forrest had but to a lesser extent,just feel like the lever isn't moving enough.......
At the moment I live in hope my trans isn't .

Lawrence...I think the 914World has the best nicknames around any of the car forums; Dime Bag (too funny / as in Ceech + Chong), taco plate, hell hole, narp...Not Hijacking this thread; back to your scheduled program
Marty

Kennedy Conversion Flywheel and Kennedy Stage II Clutch back in place.

Click to view attachment

Trans and starter back on, the last 2 pieces of sheet metal, and finish the Perry Kiehl wiring harness hook up.

Now on to addressing the intake manifolds.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Porting my brand new intake manifolds.

Wow, these new manifolds sure look nice! And I’m going to grind on them?
This operation does not sound like fun. Porting is a new one to me and one problem I have is that while I like doing most things once so doing anything 6 times is pure torture. Ugh!

Click to view attachment


PO was generous enough to mail me his “porting kit”. How’s that for support! Thanks moparrob!! No more excuses now I have to do it!

Click to view attachment

To start with, I just have to say that I was concerned about tackling this project with brand new manifolds as they were quite an investment and not something to screw up!
I am sure there are many out there that have done this and it would be no biggie to them.
So here goes……………..

I was looking for something around the house to use to model the ported hole size to and it turns out that a ping pong ball is almost exactly the correct size I need. Who knew? Disclaimer: I didn't realize that I had only 3 China ping pong balls to choose from.
That's the insulator and the diameter I am going to be working to.

Click to view attachment

Transfer insulator diameter to manifold, and you can see the difference in size and how much material has to come out with no gouges or scarfing up the flange surface! No Pressure!!!!

Click to view attachment

More to come................................

Get a scap piece of aluminum, cut a hole in it. Them work on "porting" it. Always practice a new procedure on scrap before you do the real thing. Pretty universal.

Tried starting with grinding wheels, first the one from the kit. Yup loads right up just like I thought it would with aluminum. I think it was meant to grind on a Chevy manifold. I even resurrected a coarse stone that I had from eons ago. And that one loaded right up too!
Click to view attachment

Well this ain’t working. So off to the hardware store and search for a solution. Came up with this jewel of a carbide rotary file burr tool FOR ALUMINUM. What a great find! The girl at the hardware store even remarked “isn’t it pretty?” and I had to agree. $33.00 pretty. Didn’t even need that grinding wheel in the picture it was only for back up.
Click to view attachment

Man that burr tool is amazing but I can see how you can get in big trouble real fast though. Slow and easy but it cuts like butter. Runner finish is a close match to as new, actually got it even closer after this pic.
Enlarged runner in process left and original runner right.
Click to view attachment

Developed a process which yielded a good runner finish very close to what the manifolds came with by using these tools in this order left to right.
Carbide burr, 60 grit roll, 80 grit roll, coarse scotch brite and fine scotch brite.
Click to view attachment

Not so bad just tedious and time consuming plus knowing there are 6 total to do.

Thanks for the tip Mark but I had so much material to remove that there was plenty of practice right in front of me. Start off slow is all. Have plenty of wood working experience in shaping just different tools and material is all.

Going well more to post and that is time consuming too but I wanted to share this experience.

Thanks for weighing in.

If you have wood experience then you are ahead of the game. You already know it's easier to remove than put it back. Good luck.

Looking awesome. I'm glad someone is putting those porting tools to good use.

[quote name='moparrob' date='Sep 7 2017, 12:11 PM' post='2525302']
Looking awesome. I'm glad someone is putting those porting tools to good use.
[/quote

Thanks Rob!

These are billed as 40/36 manifolds but they actually measured 35mm so I am really going from 35 to 38mm.
It is a lot of alum to remove and that carbide burr works perfect for this job!.

In process on right side
Click to view attachment

Metal removed from just one runner
Click to view attachment

The ping pong ball fit check
Click to view attachment

First hole done!

That would be the obviously larger one in the center.
Click to view attachment

How it matches up to the insulator
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

And before and after with the ping pong ball really gives sense of the size. Yes that is the same ball.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

OK now just 2 more runners on this manifold with no mistakes!
Working good so far........

Liar ! You've done this before.
Or it least it looks that way