just found on a german Porsche forum:

Porsche saved the Name "Panamera" at the german Patent- and Trademark department at January 15th, 2005.

Apparently they will show the new car at the IAA Frankfurt this year.
4 door GT
front engine
rear wheel drive / all wheel drive
V8 / V10 engines from 340 PS up to more than 600 PS
between EUR 100-150k

I'm sure others will hate it. But I think it's cool!

How do you compare PS to HP?

I thought it would be 1:1


the original 914-6 has 110 PS ... if this helps

Looks like a cross between a Pontiac Grand Am and a Ford Escort.

QUOTE (Lawrence @ Mar 1 2005, 09:51 PM)

Looks like a cross between a Pontiac Grand Am and a Ford Escort.

and the basic data sounds like a 928 with additional doors

this is still somewhat of a rumour, porsche has not decided whether or not to build the 4th model, or whether it will be a 4 or 2 door, it will be announced later this year....

im just hoping it will be a 2 door gt, a reincarnation of the 928...a 4 door will make porsche less exclusive, as the cayenne did

Looks to me that if they lost two doors it could go against the big 2+2 Ferrari. That would be cool indeed. I still love the 928 for what it was... a big, fast GT.

QUOTE (seanery @ Mar 1 2005, 12:32 PM)

I'm sure others will hate it...

YEP. I HATE it already. A 4 door porsche? An SUV is one thing, but this is like a Ferrari 612 or merc S class. NOT a porsche market. NARP!!!!!!!

QUOTE (seanery @ Mar 1 2005, 03:32 PM)

How do you compare PS to HP?

you realise that HP == Horse Power and
PS == Pferd (Horse) Stärke (Strength)

IOW -- it's just a transliteration... Horse Power for Horse Power ...

rusty 914's are way better.

anyway - this car is all wrong for Porsche.

it'll hurt their reputation as a truck maker ...

I like it. At least it looks like a Porsche.

Swell. I can't wait for them to get back into tractors too. What with SUV's and 4-doors, can a crew cab pick-up be far behind?

No... the RV is next.

I like it,

The Cayenne is impressive, I drove one last week and was nice!! , the new mid model boxter or hard top look nice


whats wrong with Porsche expanding their offerings?

They need this...

Big engine, small car..

Sounds familiar!!!

If they do this. This would allow the boxter to be better than the 911 (thus putting a larger engine, maybe the current 996tt engine into the boxster..) since the 911 will no longer be the flagship of porsche!

Think, a boxster with a 996tt or even cayenne tt engine...
Oh, I think I wet meself!
Andrew

QUOTE (Seagrave @ Mar 1 2005, 05:11 PM)

Swell. I can't wait for them to get back into tractors too.

All the tractors except the Masters were good.

From what I've seen and heard, most of the people that bitch about Porsche's new lineup, aren't new Porsche buyers.

While I'll be waiting for the lottery before I get a new Porsche, I don't care what they build as long as they stay in business.

Like them or not, new Porsches are great cars. Ask anyone who has driven a Cayenne. They know they will be underwhelmed, and get out of the driver's seat shaking or scratching thier head. A Cayenne does almost everything a 911 does, plus more.

Comparing a Cayenne to a 911 is ridiculous.
I just hope Porsche doesn't stretch themselves too thin production wise like Mercedes has. Around 1990 Mercedes started making so many different models their quality control went down the crapper. This is what happens when pofit is a higher priority than quality.
Cheers, Elliot

Porsche and 4 door just don't jive in my book.
I wish they would get back into having a serious factory race program.

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Mar 2 2005, 05:59 AM)

I wish they would get back into having a serious factory race program.

Why not next year the specs sound like an Audi A8 - or that over Priced VW. thou sitting in hte back set of each of these cars and streching out is nice for my 6'2" frame.

Pretty simple really take an A8 chassis - slap a QuadTurbo V10 in it and run with the big dogs. Just reskin it. Driving an A8 makes think hte thing can do anything. Now if I could just get any audi with a TDI and quattro in the US I would be a happy guy.

But I like it if I had the $$$$$$$$$$$ and did not mind the depriciation I would get one chances are I will wait 20 years and pick one up on hte used market. Lets see 2009 + 20 years yeah a retirement present. DOAH!

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Mar 1 2005, 09:45 PM)

Comparing a Cayenne to a 911 is ridiculous. I just hope Porsche doesn't stretch themselves too thin production wise like Mercedes has. Around 1990 Mercedes started making so many different models their quality control went down the crapper. This is what happens when pofit is a higher priority than quality. Cheers, Elliot

I thought it was absurd for Porsche to build an SUV at first too, but from what I've read, comparing a Cayenne to pretty much any other truck is just as ridiculous as comparing it to a 911. I haven't driven either one, so I can't say for sure, but from what I've read, most complaints lodged against the Cayenne that I've read have come from Porsche fans that have not even driven it. Maybe I'm just not reading the right sites, and not getting all the info, but the reviews I've read from people that have driven it have been pretty darn good.

That said, the sport sedan market is probably going to be a much tougher segment to dominate. The Audi's, MB's, BMW's, Maserati's, Jag's, VW's, etc, etc, etc have flooded the market with so much already and they have already built a loyal following of customers. It'll be Porsche's task to lure them away.

I hope they do well, cuz I want the company to still be around and making great sports cars down the road so I can still have awesome 20 and 30 year old used cars I can afford...



I agree 100% with the comparison to MB. They seemed to lose their focus and its really biting them now. Maybe Porsche noticed this as well and will do whatever they can to avoid the same mistakes. I sure hope so.

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Mar 1 2005, 08:59 PM)

I wish they would get back into having a serious factory race program.

and they are within the next two or so years!

back into LMP1!!!

[B]I think I would have to special order an aroma therapy dispenser that belches burning 30 weight in my face so I wouldn't miss my dear 914. Ahhh, the sweet smell of vintage heater box on a cold morning..... right up there with burning undercoating during restoration....

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Mar 1 2005, 10:45 PM)

Around 1990 Mercedes started making so many different models their quality control went down the crapper. This is what happens when pofit is a higher priority than quality. Cheers, Elliot

My family buys 2 Mercedes every other year. My mother get's the big convertible, and my dad gets the big sedan. Owners since 1974.

Mercedes are now mid line Chryslers, and that's too bad. Next upgrade is BMW, I hear...

I wish I could drag the people responsible out by the nose, and beat them to death on TV.



M

QUOTE (TimT @ Mar 1 2005, 06:13 PM)

I like it, The Cayenne is impressive, I drove one last week and was nice!! , the new mid model boxter or hard top look nice whats wrong with Porsche expanding their offerings?

Race on Sunday sell on Monday.....sound familiar? That's what is wrong. Porsche USED to be about performance cars only,yes even the water humpers to some extent. The recent $$$$ grab to get into the trendy market drove them to stop racing,WTF? For a company who built their rep on racing, this has many of us a little annoyed. Go drive a 67S, or a 356 carrera coupe, or a 914 6GT and see what these cars are REALLY about. I may just be getting old (at 31) but I just don't care for the "company" anymore. I'll go sit in the corner and pout now

Whats not racing about the gt3?

Or this new car, Ya, sure there thinking 4 door... but ignore the four door, and consider the possibilities... Where could this car go in a race setting....

QUOTE (scotty b @ Mar 2 2005, 10:45 PM)

I may just be getting old (at 31)

No, you are getting old at 35, and not a day later.




M

this is the one for the guy who's wife has told him "when porsche makes a car with 4 doors, you can get one".

k

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Mar 3 2005, 01:40 AM)

Whats not racing about the gt3? Or this new car, Ya, sure there thinking 4 door... but ignore the four door, and consider the possibilities... Where could this car go in a race setting....

there is a big difference between the factory selling production race cars to customers (GT3) and the factory running its own cars, ideally in the prototype class.

i'd love to know what factory memo I_love_Porsche has seen that documents the factory's return LMP1... there have been unsubstantiated rumours for years, and i'll believe it when i see it...

front-engine rear-drive water-cooled V8.... Hmmm -- sounds like a natural for NASCAR. we'll know for sure when Porsche starts building cars here. (i ain't holdin' my breath...)

NASCAR?

I dare them to take a right.


M

QUOTE (redshift @ Mar 3 2005, 07:19 AM)

NASCAR? I dare them to take a right.

c'mon up to Watkins Glen and watch 'em go. they slither around the right turns as well as any of the sporty cars do, and with less downforce. (Sears Point too...)

'course they run the sissy "short course" at The Glen, but i think that's more a factor of the audience attention span. might be fun to redefine "The Big One" to see 'em all piled up in the toe of the boot tho ...

Oh yeah, nothing like an early wreck in NASCAR to take out half the field.

We now go to Bob, live in the pits, with Richard Petty:

TV guy: Richard, what happend!? Turn one looked like a mess, took out 23 cars! That has to be some kind of record here at Daytona!?

R. Petty: Yeah Bob, rough day. I tell ya, I saw the pace car run down the row, the flag came out, I gave her the juice, and right there at one, I dropped my beer, and when I leaned down to grab it, I dropped my cigarette between my legs! Wow! Thank God for nomex cod pieces!


M

I have seen an in car shot of Dick Trickle smoking a cigarette during caution laps. Your not far from the truth.

LMAO!



m

Anybody know what the precursor to the humvee was?????

It was a Lamborghini-----

If memory serves me right--way back in the early 80's Lambo had this new 4 wheel drive truck they were considering making--had a few running examples--all with V-12's---they touted it as the most powerful, fastest 4 wheel drive off road intentional vehicle ever--then it faded away--

Then a few years later AM General was cranking out humvees----looked almost identical to the lambo model---

Maybe someone with more knowledge on this will chime in....

QUOTE (jwalters @ Mar 3 2005, 02:07 PM)

Anybody know what the precursor to the humvee was????? It was a Lamborghini--

i do vaguely recall the Lambo...

but i slightly more vividly remember the Mercedes Geländewagen - i've actually seen a couple of those in person around the Reno/Tahoe area.

same vein. big, powerful, astonishingly expensive (i saw a used one listed for $65k and that was 10 years ago...) very capable offroad.

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 3 2005, 03:54 AM)

i'd love to know what factory memo I_love_Porsche has seen that documents the factory's return LMP1... there have been unsubstantiated rumours for years, and i'll believe it when i see it...

A peek at recent Lola internal documents and accounts receivable would be most interesting....

Keep your eye on the LMPs!

Lola and Porsche? Hmmm...

I wonder who designed and/or built the V-10 Porsche LMP that was tested but never raced?

It has been written that Dallara designed the Lancia LC2 Group C, the Ferrari 333SP and the was closely involved with the Audi R8 LMP. Of course the Dallara LMP is not bad.

QUOTE (jwalters @ Mar 3 2005, 08:07 PM)

Maybe someone with more knowledge on this will chime in....

the first prototype car (1977) was called Lamborghini Cheetah - it was designed for the Saudi-Arabian army (if I remember correctly)
it was full of all high tec you can imagine - powered by a REAR engine out of the Countach (!!)

a couple of years later they started a try and built a small series, now with front engine
LM001, LM002, LM003 and LM004
the car was a financial desaster

a famous (at least in Europe) LM002 driver was Gerhard Berger - long time Ferrari F1 driver from Austria

a little more info on the LM002

oh yae--thats it--the ORIGINAL HUMVEE!!!