I noticed a couple of strange things yesterday, my hot water heater wasn't keeping up as well as it used to, and the flower bed in front of the house is flooded.
Duh, I finally put them together today, I have a broken hot water line under the slab.

It looked comical, my whole family walking around on the tile floor barefooted trying to find the warmest spot.
i have it nailed down to a 6 square foot area, I'm going to shoot it with an infra-red heat gun tomorrow to nail it down better before I start ripping up 5 year old (expensive) ceramic tile that i may or may not be able to match. I have a few squares left over from when I installed it, hopefully that will be enough.

Luckily it looks like it's in the middle of an open area and not under a cabinet or something. I figure with a little luck and an electric jack hammer I can find and fix the leak. I'm waaaay too much of a CSOB to hire a real plumber, prolly cost me more in the long run but that's who I am.

Any BTDT stories or advice before I rip into it?
Tanks.

We had this and ended up re doing the hot water pipe up into the atic. We had a hole in the pipe and after repair it would not hold presure the pipe had a bunch of pinholes. We had an old plumber friend who helped us with this and as he said "If you got one you have or are going to get another soon".

are you sure it is not easier to run a new line in the ceiling or walls to bypass the break, i mean drywall is easy to patch, and you would not have to damage tiles. also do you know if the pipe is in the slab or under the slab. i would think that finding this if it is under the slab might be real hard, it might be like a roof leak ie the water can run 30 feet before it drips on the the ceiling.

good luck

Now there's a ray of sunshine, thanks Larry

I actually already thoufght about that but I've been told to run new pipes in my house will cxost around $7k, ouch.

In a couple months I'm prolly gonna get a new job with a big bump in pay, maybe i'll just mickey-mouse patch this one together and sell the house real quick and buy a bigger house. Talk about a DAPO story

From past experience and what I've been told, the pipes in So Cal run between 3" and 6" under ther slab.
We don't have much problem with freezing pipes here.

It's considerably easier to go overhead and replace drywall to tie into the pipes than jackhammer 4" of slab concrete.

Go OVERHEAD and for 7K, find another plumber or learn hot to use a propane torch & solder.

Larry's plan makes the most sence to me. Unless your slab has shifted it's probably time to think about replacing both hot and cold lines.

We did this at the other house last year. Put plastic in and routed them to drain easy when we shut the place down for the year.

With plastic all you need is two big wrenches and a sharp knife. We did the whole house for under $300 (it is a small house)...to go over head you would need to drill holes in your plates (angle drill, fish wire, ect)

Yes, Yes, Yes, go overhead with a new line. If you have pin holes in one place, chances are its waiting to happen somewhere else.

Kinda like rust in a 914. Fix it in one place-pops up somewhere else.

Is it the line FROM the Hot water tank out to the showers/sinks or is it the line running TO the HWH from the supply line? If its the line running FROM it could get $$$.

Good luck.

Finding the hot spot on the floor may or may not give you the location of the break. Just the location that the water is pooling at. You need a professional leak detector for this part of the job.

It is the hot water line from the heater. My guess is that it goes under the slab towards the kitchen sink and branches off and goes to the bathrooms near where the leak is. I found 8 spare tiles I saved (12x12) whjen I installed the tile originally so that takes care of one headache.
I can have the tiles busted out and a hole in the slab in less than 2 hours and all that will cost is $75 for the rental of the jackhammer.
If I find the leak it's all gravy. I assess the condition of the pipe and make a determination.
Then fix the bad section, wrap with underground pipe tape (I can get that at work) compact is some fill, then pour concrete to repair the slab.
I figure all that will take less than 8 hours to do, again assuming I nail the leak.
Several days later I mortor down the replacement tiles, then grout the next day.
Did I mention that along with being a CSOB I'm as stubborn as a mule?

The upside is, the wife said that if I fix this myself without paying a whole bunch of money to contractors I can keep my next $2500 sign-on bonus (from this crappy job I gots, they promised $2500 after 3 months and another $2500 after 9 months) and spend in on Porsche stuff. Talk about motivation.

The bonus was to try and keep me here. I am the sixth person to have this position in 8 years, the other guys get burned out after about a year and bailed. Just like I'm planning to do
It doesn't hurt that I already found a better job that pays,.... well we'll just say the salary is one figure more than I'm getting now.

Like Curt says, just finding the hot spot isn't necessarily where the leak is. After 20+ years in the water dept of various cities I found a leak locater that was almost spot on. A simple listening device like a stethescope. For your application a stethescope would work great since you don't have the traffic noise to deal with. Just don't have someone stomp by while yer listening to the floor

and git dem pipes outta da concrete

.......b

Hate to throw water on your plan, but chipping out the slab and finding the leak at that spot is like finding a needle in a haystack. Water flows to the least resistance. That leak could be 5 feet from the hole in the slab. What are you going to do when you don't find the pipe/leak? Chip out another hole, and another, and another, ....???

Is this copper pipe? How are you going to fix that, solder in a new piece?

Like every job, it sounds SOOOO easy when you're planning it. You need to think about the "what if's". If it can go wrong it will.

Believe me, my current project is a $18.6 million hospital addition and renovation. I live this shit everyday.


Paul

Call American Leak Detectors. They use a stethescope type devise & can pinpoint the exact location of the leak.

You should just dump in a can of radiator stop leak!

Fixing the leak may only result in another leak elsewhere sometime later. You didn't mention copper or galvanized? If it's galvanized, forget it. I would suggest you go overhead with copper, as others have mentioned.

When I re-piped my house (overhead) in copper (myself), the galvanized pipe I removed had pin holes everywhere; none of them were actively leaking, as the rust sort of self-sealed them. It was however, simply a matter of time before disaster would strike.

Andy

QUOTE

andys   Posted on Mar 4 2005, 12:48 PM Fixing the leak may only result in another leak elsewhere sometime later. You didn't mention copper or galvanized? If it's galvanized, forget it. I would suggest you go overhead with copper, as others have mentioned. When I re-piped my house (overhead) in copper (myself), the galvanized pipe I removed had pin holes everywhere; none of them were actively leaking, as the rust sort of self-sealed them. It was however, simply a matter of time before disaster would strike. Andy

Most of your new homes use overhead copper pipes, I think thats the way to go.

They are piped overhead because plumbers don't want to dig drenches and layout walls in the dirt for supply lines. The do it for sanitary lines already. The underslab rough in can be done faster and the slab can be placed sooner. Dirty water goes in the ground, clean water goes overhead. At least that is the way it is done in Florida because the lines don't freeze too often.

I can sympathize. We had a leak in the hot water line as well. It is caused by galvanic corrosion, so it will not be localized. You may have many small leaks, or will have. My house is slab-on-grade. The attic gets well below freezing in winter. The only solution I had was to install a small water heater under the kitchen sink. The cold line usually has no problems. For the bathroom I was able to run a new line alongside the hot water heating line. Hot water lines in the ground always fail.

Could you seal the pipe and hook it up to a compressed air tank to find the leak with a stethoscope? Just a thought.

Just my two rubles (far less worth than pennies :-) )

My piping is copper, house was built in '69.

Maybe I am being unrealistic, but misguided as it may be it is based on personal experience.

When I was 17 my father found a hot spot under the slab at his house and similar symptoms (5 miles from my house, built at roughly the same time). Of course he had me do most of the grunt work. No jackhammer, he gave me a sledge and a masonry chisel.

I eventually got a 1' hole in the slab, and sure enuff there was a pin hole in the copper pipe. We managed to splice in a coupling and solder it with propane (anyone else know the white bread trick?)
and the problem was solved.

Iffn I punch a hole and the leak aint there, I'll give in and call somebody.
This is personal now, even if I'm being stupid my mind is made up.
I'm on a mission from.... you know the rest.

while you at it i saw a tv show on plumbing and they said one of the biggest reasons for hot haot leaks is the hot water heater. basicly the anode in the water heater corrodes away like it supposed to but once its gone it does nothing, then the tank starts rusting and rust flakes go down the pipe and settle. after a while the copper corrodes around the rust flake due to galavinitic (sp ) prosses.

to the god damned point check the anode in the hot water heater, just shut of the water and use a bf wrench to unscrew it. its on top

Will do. One of the first things I did when I bought the house was replace the heater, but it's not new any more.
Thanks for the tip.

The welders handbook has the whitebread trick in it, why not wheat or tater bread?

anyone else know the white bread trick?

Yep. It doan work wit wheat bread. stuff white bread bread in the supply line, and sweat! You can't sweat a copper line when its wet!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Mar 4 2005, 03:42 PM)

The welders handbook has the whitebread trick in it, why not wheat or tater bread?

Just make sure you remove all your aerators, filters, and strainers, and then purge. The bread breaks up into fine particles, but cloggs all the little screens, etc. It's a small headache, but easily avoided.

I was looking over the construction of some homes about four years ago in a reasonably upscale tract near me. Couldn't believe they were piped with Korean Galvanized! Wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen for myself!

Andy

Well, evertone is in agreement, everyone that is except one stubborn fool.

I mapped out the hot spot, adjusted for wind direction, compensated for the curvature of the earth and the moon's gravitational pull, and started digging with the BOSCH electric jackhammer I rented.
I missed the leak.
I was at least 3" off the mark

Turns out they ran the hot and cold supply lines parallel and very close to each other.

At one point they almost touched, and that is where the leak was. Electrolysis or something caused by the temperature difference?
The rest of hte pipe looked fine, it was just worn where the pipes were all but rubbing against each other.

Anywho, trying to get the pipe dry and sweated wasn't too bad, compressed air is my friend.

I figure it took $100 and 4 hours, but it's ready for concrete tomorrow as soon as the fill dries up a little more. Pics to follow.

All this proves is that IT IS BETTER TO BE LUCKY THAN GOOD, OR SMART!

Stubborn with big cajones. I would have run a new line.

Congrats, Sammy!! Well done! I guess sometimes stubborn is a good thing.

Lucky shit....go buy some LOTTO tickets...

QUOTE

mikez   Posted on Mar 5 2005, 06:24 PM Lucky shit....go buy some LOTTO tickets...

Lucky SOB, Sammy.

Good for you.

Paul

here's the pics:

how do you post multiple pics in one post?