After a spirited run around and over the cones I noticed a rubber smell persisting. This week driving to work I heard a squeal. Today it seems the right rear tire is rubbing the inner fender where the box projects towards the wheel. The camber has become more pronounced and is visibly tipped in at the top of the wheel. Tires are 205s, but they cleared before. Clearly something has changed, and I suspect that in fact it changed during the autocross. Can you help me with ideas? The suspension console looks ok but the car has rust separating much of the firewalls from the floor at the rear. Car actually feels solid with no door gap issues.

Thanks

I'll bet the suspension console is failing. Classic issue for these cars. Bob just noticed his going on huey after a spirited run at the track. They fail from the inside out.

^^^

check the bushings in the trailing arm first

1. console is cracked
2. alignment settings came loose

I bet money on #1. BTDT. The kids went airborne over a parking lot curb at an autocross in Montana. Within a month the console was cracked.

Do more of a closer inspection. hope its failed bushings but thats got more symptoms....

jack the car up and you should notice that you can flex the wheel in and out. look at the pickup points and if they look fine then it's the bushings. you can get large amounts of movement from both problems and it's easy to tell which one it is.

hopefully it's just bushing as that is the cheap fix.

Pre-AX tech inspectors in my PCA zone typically grab a wheel and shake it very hard, rocking in and out. Not on all cars; they like to pick on old 914s since they break down and/or spew oil more often!! This motion can reveal bad bearings or suspension bushings, because you will feel it. I would not try that with the car up on a jack or even jack stands. If you already know about lots of rust back there....

Good luck

Well, the votes are in and I will check it out. Matched my suspicions but it is always best to ask the world about these things. I will get back with a verdict in a day or two. It seems I am lucky if I can go two steps forward and one step back. I would say rust too, except I know the car pretty well and have fixed these issues on the conversion tub. I kinda think that the longs and console are better than that. But - rust not only is insomniac, but camouflaged at every turn. So, I know better than to guess. I wish the lift wasn't a half hour drive...

Thanks one and all. Great support!

Jacking up the car and removing the wheel will let you check out the suspension console.

If it's too rusty to use a jack then it shouldn't be driven.

I would bet suspension ear is cracked & more than half way & you'll be thanking your lucky starts. It's much nicer to catch it before it tears off completely

Thanks. I peaked underneath before I left for work. I had to drive my TR6 instead. It looks like either the inner bushing is gone, or the inner suspension ear has an ovalled hole. Or both. Wouldn't rule out cracks though. No major displacement of pieces.

It is no way near too rusted to jack up. The jack points even work, but I rarely use them. If I do, instead of buying one of those round plates for the floor jack I use a tow hitch ball with the shank ground square to fit in the hole. No matter what angle I reach the jack point is steady.

On my 2nd Six I got very lucky. When the engine was out to straighten out some issues from the 3.0 CIS install, I was cleaning the engine compartment and underneath since it was so accessible and found the passenger side rear suspension mounting point cracked more than 1/2 way.

It was a lucky break as we had the engine already out so we addressed that by replacing that ear and also replaced the batter box at the same time as it had some rust holes. Back then it was only about $400 if I remember correctly. That even included respraying the engine compartment so it looked like new. The body shop was right behind my mechanic so we just rolled the car over to their shop.

Once I saw the damage I was shaken up as I drive that card hard regularly through a 10 mile canyon road and can only imagine the crash if that ear had completely failed.

My inner ear was cracked after 86K miles and 100% street use. Found it after an engine pull and prior to repaint.

OK, how much did you lose, or I winned? It is was the inner bushing, all squirmy and gone. Now I need new CV gaskets and to figure out what bushing to use!

So to heal my heroic old car, what is considered the best solution. Needle bearings with automated greasing? Rubber inserts? Rubber stoppers with holes drilled? Or some sort of polymer like either Delrin or urethane?

What do you guys like? My wife doesn't like riding in it anyway if that helps people make up their minds. Grippier tires and new bilsteins didn't delay this.

Yeah. That is one reason I decided to reinforce the ears on my six conversion. My son had the car up on jack stands when I got home today, probably expecting to weld. Silly for us to have three welders a thirty minute drive from our lift...
Thanks.

Thanks. It is really rusty in places, but the worm seems to have bypassed this spot at present. Someday I will pull the motor again to do what is right by that car, but right now it is the one that always delivers.

Fer instance, I started tearing apart the motor for my 911 cause of the dilivar studs. Made progress there but would prefer to drive the 911. The six conversion moved ahead in that I think I have all the fuel lines tight. I silver brazed stainless in bad conditions, and had to redo. So, this one little 914 was the one that behaved reliably.

I'll buy dinner when you make it out here one day.

As I recall we could probably get dinner where you work

What do you use for bushings, or what do you think I should use? There seems to be a range of choices.

Here's what I plan to use.

http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/r...berbushings.htm

I had metal on metal on my tractors in Montana. LOL.

Either the Elephant Polybronze or needle bearings will get you the most performance with the least change in driveability. By driveability I mean noise and harsh ride. I was nervous about using the Polybronze when I did mine because of my experience with my 240Z. At one time, I replaced all the bushings in the Z suspension with polyeurathane and put coil overs all around. The handling was incredible. I could hit any corner I wanted pretty much flat out... However, my wife, who loves that car, would no longer ride in it because she felt like she was riding in the back of a pick up truck with a worn out suspension. With the Polybronze, I was pleasantly surprised. If you use these, you will find that without the shock attached, you can raise and lower the control arms with one finger. Full range of motion, with one finger. While this may seem like a parlor trick that doesn't really translate into performance, it isn't. With the factory bushings having welded themselves to the races, the control arms act like a spring with very little range. Now with the control arms freed up, the Koni's can do their job. There is very little noise and harshness and it sucks up little bumps and cracks in the road like they're not there.

I'd save the Delrin and Polyeurathane for race applications and the rubber (like original) will have the same problem once it firmly attaches to the races like the originals.

I recommend either the Polybronze or the needle bearings if you can even find them...

Up early on a Sunday morning. Now I know how you make such progress. Rubber, eh? Not the polybronze? Same price and same vendor, which I have had good luck with btw.

Thanks. I think the original intent was to have the rubber flex, while bonded to both the outer and inner surfaces. So you gat a cushion, but not exactly a bushing. I was leaning to the polybronze, but would love to hear from any others with experience with that and other products.

I have the Elephant Poly bronze in my track car that I drive on the street. Rides excellent on the street. I will use these to replace the plastic weltmiesters I put on my Other street car 15 years ago.

X2

Elephant's kit was easiest to install and well worth the money.

DON'T buy the Welmeister crap. Mine failed after 3/4 of a season. That's when I went to Elephant.

If you use rubber it will put less stress on the suspension ear.
If you upgrade to bronze or bearings, you should add the plate from foley to ensure you never have any issues.
To fix your oval you can weld a washer onto the ear with some grinding of the washer to make it fit flush.

Thanks, that is worth some thought. The rubber failed all at once apparently. Or more accurately, it went from not producing any noticeable problem to tearing apart along the lower side of the shaft inboard. Fortunately the shaft nuts were still torqued, so there wasn't any overlong. Haven't checked the other side yet. I have two Porsches up on stands, so this one isn't going to see any welding at present - I do not feel I can do that great a job with the motor in place. So, it is going to be rebushed and put back on the road. Before that, it will get a close inspection at the consoles and ears. I have seen the photos, and appreciate all of the advice.

Rubber does that, ozone kills it after 40 years

No more rubber. Pure Elephant. They have nevr let me down yet!

Everyone jumps on the console being broken... which it often is. But in reality, the bushings are rubber that is 40 YEARS old now. Mine gave way fairly quickly too (over a couple days) just driving to work. It happens. By now, everyone should be considering replacements. I went with Eric Shea's wonderfully simple, but effective option:

http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item...565/5297602.htm

And Chris Foley has an option at Tangerine Racing as well.

Do those poly's squeak?

I replaced my sway bar bushings with polyurethane and not enough grease - they squeak. But the poly bronze bushings are quieter Han a mouse. I would also say that Eric at PMB has never steered me wrong.

They don't squeak if you install zerk fittings as recommended. Mine squeaked once after running them hard on the track for 10 hours. Greased them and the sound was gone. No lateral play, and they rotate freely up and down as if there were bearings in there. Also, these are not the typical polyurethane durometer found in aftermarket sway bar bushing kits. This stuff is so hard you actually hone it out to fit the pivot shaft.

Mr. Shea swears by the Delrin bushings he sold me. I picked up some grease zerks, picked out my locations and drilled away putting them in a very convenient spot for servicing and was done within 45 min. Very reasonable price and super easy to install- if my car was running I'd have more info for you but he has lists of customers that are happy with this setup.