I've been playing with the idea. There have been quite a few good donor cars on CL lately, Audi/VW and Subaru.

Plan would be to swap the engine/trans and needed electronic bits into a test car, get it 100% and purdy, let the buyer drive it if they want, then pull it for shipping.

Would include freshening the eng/trans, mounts, axles, shifter & hydraulic clutch if needed, partial/full exhaust. Maybe a radiator kit and gauges.

Probably in the $4-6k range.

I could probably do one every 4 months and there would be little choice in which combo presented itself.

So whatcha think???

I wish I could even buy the parts for $4-6k.

I would say yes there is a market, I wouldn't quit my day job to pursue it.

All 3 (6?) combos would find an interested person, but you need buyers!

I'd pick a combo that you could live with for a while until it sold unless you get someone to commit before building.

Might not have a day job too much longer... looking into options besides flipping 'mechanics specials' and uber.

It looks like Suby is where it's at, so it shouldn't be too difficult to have it spoken for when I'm done.

I'm curious what the "other" votes were for. Suby 6?

I would say Suby 6 unless you're into building Nissan swaps...

The 1.8TT is way better than a Subie IMHO.

Then again, a Honda 3.5 is a great motor...

Good luck!

The 'other' votes were probably for a true Porsche motor of the six variety.

So on a tangent here, the boxers are supposed to keep the CG low- you guys that swap in V6's or V8's, do you notice that the CG is higher?

I think the whole "you are going to ruin the CG" is a blown out of proportion for the most part...yes it does change, is it going to make your car slower thru a slalom or chicane as it was with the "flat" motor?

I doubt it and until someone proves me wrong with back to back tests I'll keep that opinion

Weight is weight, and the CG lower (if a weight of substance) will only reduce tipiness if not eliminated by a stiff suspension.

As a more bolt in swap I think the subaru is a better bet. Both Audi setups I believe will require cutting in the engine bay.

That being said I think the Audi automatic trans options are better.. nearly all of them have tiptronic and are programmable.

The v6 Audi engine also has a killer exhaust note.. IF it were ME I would make an automatic 2.8 setup. So many people would LOVE a good automatic 914 with 200hp. It MIGHT fit to..

I seriously bet that would be an easy easy swap. If I do another 914 after this it will be that build.

I've ridden in cars with both. Not the same car, but set up similarly and yes, that mass carried higher makes a significant difference. You can feel it, they don't even feel like the same car. Sure, you CAN stiffen the suspension to control it, but you're still creating more inertia because the mass is being carried higher and that acts as a lever, multiplying the energy transferred onto your tire contact patches. And there's a whole new can of worms to deal with. You're always better with less weight, and even better when you can keep the weight lower. That's physics and I don't think there's anything there to argue. I sure wouldn't want to be on the other side of that discussion, trying to convince anyone that mass carried higher will make a car handle better or be faster.

Maybe for the old sbc but the ls1 weighs le$$ than Porsche 6 lol.
My car was setup with all suspension upgrades and chassis stiffening kit b4
I did ls1/boxster S and has only gotten better with more power.

I hope not, way out of my budget. Plus there are numerous well established companies that do -6 conversions.

I didn't put Suby 6 or WRX as an option because I have yet to see an ideal$ donor. WRX would likely add $1-2k.

Is there an FAQ you know that tells the pro and cons of the different Audi V6 motors ?

I found the wiki page which just confused me. Do the V6 motors have the same issue as the later V8 motors with the crazy timing chain problems?

2.8 and 2.7TT v6 motors no. The 3.0 motor found in the later models yes.

Either the 2.8 motor or the 2.7tt motor are amazing and very very reliable motors.

I am not aware of a working FAQ page... there was a wiki one at some point but its server went down.

Also only certain v8 motors had the timing chain issues. Many are super reliable. Most of the non turbo Audi engines run well into the 200k mile range without any issues. The 2.8 is one of the most reliable engine Audi made.

I had heard the 2.7TT and 2.7 motors are a PITA to work on -- "They are like strippers: They only work when you throw money at them."

I would like to hear input from other sources though...

I don't think there is a real bolt in solution. Every conversion takes cutting and fabrication. Some conversions are better than others.

Unless you are doing everything yourself, Renegade has the best "bolt in" solutions. Still requires cutting, welding and fabrication.

To be a true bolt in try a T1 VW motor. Should be an easy fit...

Having owned a 2.7tt engine in my Allroad for about 2 years I can say that the base engines are extremely reliable. Its all the other crap that goes wrong. Sure there are some seals that dry up over time but thats the same with any other engine. The KO3 turbos that come with them are fine if you dont overwork them but most tunes do. The other issue is the cats are RIGHT behind the turbo so that heats up the entire engine bay and turbo's, causing premature wear if not driven properly or if the turbo's are pushed.
Again the basics of the engine, block, pisons, rods, valvetrain, cams, ect are very strong. If you were to put one in a 914, do a quick external seal overhall and either had a conservative tune, went with RS6-KO4 turbo (Or hybrid), and kept the boost conservative you would have a LOT of engine for the 914 and it would be pretty reliable (Like oil changes, timing belts at 50k miles, and keeping an eye on leaks).

If your familiar with the 1.8t engines its the same design, but in a V shape and with 6 cylinders and 2 turbo's. Its the same reason why the 1.8T engines are so good. Throw out the stock tiny turbo and put a good size turbo with the boost low enough not to generate to much heat and you have a really, really reliable engine. I put near 100k miles on my 1.8T engine and only had regular maintenance (Apart from an oil cooler seal breaking spilling oil everywhere, not to mention my constant turbo upgrades).

The 2.8 non turbo engine has all the goodness of the 2.7, but without the unreliable stuff. Seriously regular maintenance and I have never heard of any engine failure with this one. I considered the 2.8 engine for my swap for a long, long time before deciding to go 1.8t, and the main reason for that I pulled my big turbo swap out of my Audi when I sold it (for my Fiesta ST) and I wanted to make use of the 5k I've already spent on big turbo parts for that engine (3k for the initial stage 3 kit, then another 2k for my current big turbo)...


Im getting off topic... I repeat, the subaru setup (A non turbo, 5 speed setup) is probably the most bolt in setup that can be built. If you did it right you might be able to engineer the radiator in the engine bay like Scott (?) did back in 05.

I think there are a lot of combo's left out.

Chevy V8, LS1, Subaru eg33, ez30. That is why the "other" bin has so many votes.


-- brett

The point of doing a bolt-in is to eliminate the fab'n and welding, which can be done, and I have the skills. The cutting for the rad, running hoses, fan wires, other small stuff will still need to be done to the car by the owner. I can make a cover for the starter or whatever interferes with the chassis.

The thing is that I would be starting with a whole donor car, so Audi electronic bits will be included like the gauges, anti-theft, gas pedal, etc.

But it's looking like the first swap should be a Suby with an effort to get the rad in the back.

Yea, that's a lot of votes with nobody speaking up

SBC uses stock trans, plus it's easy. So nothing really to offer.
LS1 is covered by others so no point.
Suby 6s I can see, and I'm willing to do, they just haven't been for sale. Plus if I have to piece together parts from several vehicles it gets time con$uming.

Vegas is essentially an island, so I have to work with what's here.

Chris,

Understood. but, if you want to get a good market analysis, you have to cover as much as possible. With it as it is now, you can see you are missing 40% market. But, if you broke it out more, you might see a trend for one kind of "kit" and it would be worth the effort.

Just my 2 cents.

-- brett

I'm not sure what you value your time at. If it were me, I would charge a bare minimum of $50 per man hour shop time. So that's a minimum of $2,000 per week in labor plus parts. If you could mass produce the bits it might make a good cost model.

At the above shop rate I must have well over $20,000 in labor on my conversion. Granted mine is more than just a motor swap. This would quickly put a conversion like mine out of reach for most CSOB 914 owners.

I would suggest developing just the mounting & conversion bits as a kit. But even this has been done in Las Vegas and coldwater makes some more pieces but not a full kit.

So I'm not really sure how to make your business plan viable and profitable.

Honda 3.5 liter best bang for the buck you can pick up this motor complete anywhere between 200 and 900 dollars all day long my friend. Click to view attachment

Looks like you'd have plenty of room in the back of that for a radiator, maybe two and a ducted fan system to keep 'er cool...
Then you've got your entire frunk for toys, etc.! Wonder what the weight bias would be with those pieces in the back- if it was acceptable I think people would be all over that!

I have this motor in my 2004 Acura RL. OMG what a great motor. 208K and no issues. Lots of power, very reliable, used in Pilots, Odysseys, and RLs. Not sure of the weight, and not sure of the drivability with a 901, but can vouch for the motor.

And there goes the bolt-in idea ...

If talking about the Honda swap above, I'm sure with an intake manifold redesign one wouldn't have to do that sort of cutting if any at all (besides the front trunk for cooling which any of these proposed swaps would need)

You know what doesn't exist that you could sell boatload of? A bolt-in transmission kit to upgrade the 901 to something more modern.

Part of the reasoning of my Subaru/Boxster/Audi transmission thread

The PO of my car just recently mentioned something about the transmission in my car having some "issues"

Plan would be to swap the engine/trans and needed electronic bits.

Would include freshening the eng/trans, mounts, axles, shifter & hydraulic clutch if needed, partial/full exhaust. Maybe a radiator kit and gauges.

Probably in the $4-6k range.


Have you run the numbers? Even finding good deals, excluding labor and no profit, $6k is a tight fit.

I toyed with the radiator in the back idea. The problem is I already had the renegade radiator from my old v8 914, It just did not fit right back there, and I was worried about the weight distribution, and steering lightness in the front end.

You don't have to cut the trunk up at all. I just thought it would be easier to work on, and I saw some race cars with tube framing and thought it looked cool. LOL

So you have a crappy engine and a crappy trans.....


Sounds like a subaru/audi enginr/trans swap is in your future....

Audi/Audi works pretty well...

It seems some of us have wildly different ideas about what the term "bolt-in" actually means.

I personally wouldn't call my 3.6L "bolt-in" but after reading some of the posts here, it seems that my conversion would generally be considered a simple direct swap-a-doodle bolt-in easy peasy conversion.

You conversion is the easiest. Any -6 really.

I'm with Andy, there are some very serious fabrication projects being mentioned in the same breath as "bolt-in". To avoid any confusion, and before some poor guy has his car on jackstands and hacked past the point of no return before he realizes it, I think that some definitions are probably in order.

well,for a guy like me,..limited time,cant fab a lot of things,no practical knowledge of the conversion,..1 rad system complete,frame and sheet metal,with fans,and wiring,..then the engine wiring systems,then engine brackets/mounts,...being there are a few companies out there that do all this already,You would have to assemble 1-3 conversion packages,to sell with what motors work best,or what they want,...Iam going with EG33,... Rookies like me would go with proven choices,one flat 6, one 4 banger,and a turbo system,..I could supply the muscle,..meaning I can follow directions and use tools,..plug and play is what I need,..the real problem is the profit margin needed to make it worth it to you to create the packages,..and at what price must I pay,.. if you beat all the conpetitors out there,..and gain a good reputation,..there's kinda no end to it,..Why I want to go suby flat 6,..I didn't want to pay the7 -8K plus ,..for a oil cooled 200 HP motor,...Jake Raby finially went water cooled,..and I wonder why....