i was intrested in possibly starting on a long-term 356 porsche project. I was wondering if there were any good condition bodies still around?

Yes, they are still to be had in not too rusty or bashed condition, however there are many offered for sale that are worth running from, even if they look pretty on the outside. Look at as many of the 356's as possible, understand all the rust point on the car (many more than on a 914!) so you know what to look for. Replacement metal in general is inexpensive, however installing it is very expensive or time taking.

My advice is buy the cleanest bodied 356 you can afford, and start from there.

Sure, but they're a good bit more expensive than 914 tubs in equal condition. Expect to pay $15K or more for a coupe that can be driven, and a good bit more than that for a Cabrio. Actual Speedsters are out of most people's price range, which is why there are so many fakes and replicas of the Speedster out there. Note that the 356 engine is NOT a Bug engine, no matter how much it resembles one. Rebuild costs are roughly halfway between Type 4 and 911 rebuild costs.

sure, they come up all the time. there were some v-e-r-y rusty examples on EBay fairly recently. even the coupes are going up, and people are saving cars that would not have been good enough to cut for parts just 10 years ago. but they're out there.

(a pushrod Speedster just sold for $98k and while it was an exceptional example, it gives you an idea ...)

my suggestion: go to the 356Registry website and join the Talk list. lurk for AT LEAST a week or three to get a handle on the names and personalities involved. many if not most of the people there will SEEM to be oldpharts with no sense of humour and it is a pretty tight ship, unlike here... but it does not take very long to discover where the boundaries are and what you can get away with. it is NOT a chat line that tolerates witty one-liner replies very well.

but many of the country's - even the world's - 356 experts show up there from time to time and there is MUCH to be learned.

lots of guys (and the occasional gal) will offer cars to 'The List' first before sending them off to EBay -- and kinda like here, the REAL loser EBay cars are picked at a bit. this can save you BIG headaches if someone happens to observe, for example: "Nice car, but that's a '63 front clip welded onto that '62 Notchback..." (as has happened...)

you may recognise a few names from other lists there.
there are not a lot of 914/356 crossover enthusiasts, but there are a few. i'm one ('53 Coupe) Mike Z is, and another couple i can't pick out right now...


[edited - fixed link - thanks Micheal !]

I'll put a plug in for Retrotech. They run through the gammet of 356's in various conditions, neat stuff. I'd look there to get an idea of what is out there and in what condition. His ads are pretty detailed in what has been completed, or what needs to be done with the cars. www.route30classics.com

retro always has some cool stuff, great place to visit too.

~a

I searched, and searched, and finally found my second 356 (the first keeper) for $3600, ran, but sticking brakes, minimal rust. This was about four years ago.

Bug motors can easily be fitted into the 356, and you can make big HP from a bug motor at 1/4 the cost of a 356 motor. MAny folks are now starting to put their rare (and with near impossible to obtain parts) original motors on a shelf, and install a dual carbed 2 liter or so Type I motor, more power than the original 356 motor.

We have a rust bucket 356SC for 10K, and a Daily driver candidate 356SC for 11K.

the seller of the rustbucket is nuts, or rather anyone would be nuts to buy it for 10K

Im buying the other one

actually, who you should probably hook up with is Ken Daugherty. he runs a 356 restoration shop in Louisville (and is one of the names you'll see in 356Talk). Bruce Baker (near me) mentioned the availability of a blue C car - cabrio i think, mightta been a coupe. i've actually seen the car and it was nice. i'll find that note and PM or email it to you...

QUOTE (dmenche914 @ Mar 7 2005, 02:22 PM)

Bug motors can easily be fitted into the 356, and you can make big HP from a bug motor at 1/4 the cost of a 356 motor. MAny folks are now starting to put their rare (and with near impossible to obtain parts) original motors on a shelf, and install a dual carbed 2 liter or so Type I motor, more power than the original 356 motor.

The power gain, if any, is at a price and that price is longevity and reliability. 356 engines last a loooooong time and are bullet proof if built properly and, while the HP may be less than a 2100cc VW beast, the torque in that VW motor does not seem to push it along as well as a 356 motor does.

This is not a slam of VW engines, I love them too. But I have NEVER been impressed with a VW engine in a 356. And likewise, I was not too impressed with a 356 engine in a VW I saw once. Go figure.

As for people putting their 356 engine on a shelf because of "rare" and "near impossible to find" parts, you may want to rethink that. Usually people put the VW engine in their 356 because of the cost to rebuild the 356 engine compared to the VW, not to "save it". 356 engine parts, while not available at your FLAPS, are not that rare or hard to find. Many people specialize in 356 engines and most parts are still available. The ones that aren't are usually restoreable or reproduceable.

Just my 2 cents from many many years of wonderful 356/VW ownership.

i'm not digging the whole e-mail list that the registry has. but i signed up. ArtechnikA, do you have Ken's contact information?

That's the reason I put a six in MY 356....first off, it was a rusty POS WITH a VW motor...I only bought it because I wanted to do something wild and not sacrifice something that was restorable. Hence the chopped off top, flares and roll cage...

I have "X" into it and to do the body work and paint needed to bring to a (barely) 8 on a scale of 1-10....would cost me about 6K.....don't know if I wanna do that.

But it is fun to run it as is and tweak the panties on the CWs....

Rich is right about the 356 registry email list crowd....witty reparte is NOT a gud thang there. Prepare to keep yer bunghole tightly sealed....

QUOTE (aylanco @ Mar 7 2005, 05:56 PM)

...356 engine parts, while not available at your FLAPS, are not that rare or hard to find.

cool deal!

one set of pistons & cylinders for a 2-piece case 1500N, if you please, and a crank, and a cam.

i've almost got everything else i need... (i have decided against using the original wooden pushrods...)

my '53 came with a single-port 1600 VW engine. the car is pretty light and slippery and the engine was reliable (and paid for). it took 3 years of reading the Registry newsletter to find a '53-serial-number 1500N engine -- or rather -- several boxes of engine parts that could theoretically be assembled into an engine. but i don't trust the pistons i got, nor the cylinders, although there were 8 of each. i understand there are repro options, but NOS dried up many years ago.

not looking for screaming power - rare as 2-piece case engine parts are, they pale in comparison to the availability of split-case transmission parts. 65HP is just fine in a pre-A shell, and it helps keep you out of trouble from the primitive suspension's limits. (darned good brakes tho...)

QUOTE

my suggestion: go to the 356Registry website and join the Talk list. lurk for AT LEAST a week or three to get a handle on the names and personalities involved. many if not most of the people there will SEEM to be oldpharts with no sense of humour and it is a pretty tight ship, unlike here...

This link takes us to a non 356 site, or it is really well disguised. Rgds, Michael

QUOTE (mistro @ Mar 7 2005, 06:51 PM)

This link takes us to a non 356 site, or it is really well disguised. Rgds, Michael

i typed .com 'stead of .org ...

fixed the link, thanks for bringing that to my attention !

http://www.356registry.org/

i joined.....

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 7 2005, 03:24 PM)

QUOTE (aylanco @ Mar 7 2005, 05:56 PM) ...356 engine parts, while not available at your FLAPS, are not that rare or hard to find. cool deal! one set of pistons & cylinders for a 2-piece case 1500N, if you please, and a crank, and a cam. i've almost got everything else i need... (i have decided against using the original wooden pushrods...) my '53 came with a single-port 1600 VW engine. the car is pretty light and slippery and the engine was reliable (and paid for). it took 3 years of reading the Registry newsletter to find a '53-serial-number 1500N engine -- or rather -- several boxes of engine parts that could theoretically be assembled into an engine. but i don't trust the pistons i got, nor the cylinders, although there were 8 of each. i understand there are repro options, but NOS dried up many years ago. not looking for screaming power - rare as 2-piece case engine parts are, they pale in comparison to the availability of split-case transmission parts. 65HP is just fine in a pre-A shell, and it helps keep you out of trouble from the primitive suspension's limits. (darned good brakes tho...)

You're right!! I should have put a disclaimer regarding the early engines!!

What I was talking about were the plethora of 1600 normal/super/C/SC/912 engines out there. The way this fella was talking about a project car, I figured he would be using one of the more common 1600's, say on a reletively inexpensive B coupe.

You gave an example of the exception that proves the rule

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 7 2005, 03:56 PM)

i joined.....

There goes the list....

QUOTE (mikez @ Mar 7 2005, 04:06 PM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 7 2005, 03:56 PM) i joined..... There goes the list....

Britt you REALLY should look at some "project" 356's before you get to interested. 914's have rust but 356's are born with it.They are as stated previously, expensive to buy in decent shape, parts run a good bit higher than 914, the parts are available from more vendors, engine parts are much higher then 914. Learn to weld first. Learn to weld WELL first.

QUOTE

Learn to weld first. Learn to weld WELL first.

werd

AND!! learn to shape metal, shrink it, stretch it, flange it...

http://www.rudtnersracing.com/update3.htm

for example, here's a post fresh off the 356Talk list:

" Street Performance Engine for sale; on Dyno now!

Just completed and on our dyno; 912 based "rat motor," for your street
enjoyment; 9.2 to 1.0 final compression ratio; Elgin cam; Bieker SOLEXs; all
the good stuff! Develops 103BHP/85lb-ft torque @ 6500RPM.

CASE: 69 912 #4095020, standard bore
Crank: 912 Counterbalanced, standard
Rods: 69 912, rebuilt/balanced
Pistons: SHASTA Forged, 86MM Big Bore
Heads: 912, new exhaust valves, new valve guides
Cam: Elgin 78-10 Widelobe
Carbs: SOLEX P-40 II; Rebushed/new shafts/butterflies by Bieker Engineering
FLywheel: 200MM S-90
Grey Shroud/silver cad plated hardware/powdercoated sheet metal
Full Flow Oil System(with or without tach drive) w/FilterAdapter and MOCAL
13 row rear fender mount oil cooler/AN lines included for installation on
bumper mounting bolts of T-5/T-6; or adaptable to A car Carrera oil tank
mounting holes

Add your perimeter sheet metal, heater boxes,muffler and install!$7900 US,
we ship worldwide "

so there ya go -- $8000 for a 100-HP engine.
i don't know the people, i don't know the engine, and i have no financial interest in the transaction. it's presented here for examplary purposes only.

Includes a FREE BAR OF SOAP.....


Sorry,,,it's a gud deal for that motor based on the parts, the machine work and building...it's just I can't see paying that for 100hp.

QUOTE (mikez @ Mar 7 2005, 06:36 PM)

Includes a FREE BAR OF SOAP..... Sorry,,,it's a gud deal for that motor based on the parts, the machine work and building...it's just I can't see paying that for 100hp.

Hey Mike, that's 100HP DIN not SAE

QUOTE (aylanco @ Mar 7 2005, 07:00 PM)

QUOTE (mikez @ Mar 7 2005, 06:36 PM) Includes a FREE BAR OF SOAP..... Sorry,,,it's a gud deal for that motor based on the parts, the machine work and building...it's just I can't see paying that for 100hp. Hey Mike, that's 100HP DIN not SAE

Ohhhhh, I stand corrected.....

you know mike, i'd like to see a sixer put onto a lawn boy.