EDIT:

This post was made to open the discussion about what are OT posts, where they should be allowed with what subject matter, & how they should be handled - since the current rule allows them anywhere (yes, I disagree with some others who feel the rule allows movement by not disallowing it otherwise in the rules).

It was NOT meant to be a place for member bashing or denigration. It started out with mostly members expressing their views on the subject, even if they were more focused on the subject of the specific posts noted in my OP - & not the overall OT issue & many topics.

So just to clarify for those who seem to have trouble figuring this out, this post is not about Rugby per se, it's about OT topics - what are OT, how they are handled, etc. relative to the rules - in the hopes of getting clarification for members who seem to arbitrarily get moved, while other similar ones don't.

This applied to some OT non-914 car posts being moved, while others did not; some 4th of July & other holidays' "Greetings" or "Happy ___" posts being bumped, while others did not (one Gulf War Vets' July 4th post was bumped much to his irritation, while a slew of others stayed in the Garage); bumping some 9/11 remembrance posts & ejecting others (frankly I think that the made up 9/14 day posts are pretty inane & just pass them by, but it's certainly far less important event to all of us worldwide & 9/11 is tru;y worthy of remembrance); or the asking for advice on home electrical, plumbing & everything else under the sun; and many other examples of OT posts in the Garage - with the usual excuse that there isn't time to do them all.

So why bump any, when I think most of you out there are smart enough to pass by the OT - as you do with any other post in which you're not interested - & just let them alone.

Otherwise, I and several others posted on here & who knows how many others not posting (perhaps fearing retribution) feel that there should be consistent rules on what OT goes where if you are going to bump OTs from the Garage or anywhere else.

While I've only been a member since `09, I do personally know some long time members, who have told me that the Garage originally was open to all sorts of discussions on here & the predecessor site 914club before the split - & that the OT was there to indicate what wasn't car or 914 related; & that the Sandbox was for the girly pix & other off color stuff.

Now it seems that members must justify anything not 914 in the garage - including legitimate topics on other cars as being OT .... not simply the NPC tag for non-Porsche content! this seems a bad progression of affairs to me.

BTW - I changed this post's tag to SOT, since we started talking cars fairly early on, but specifically at post 50> ... not to mention more importantly that it's related to the running of the site & it's forums, so only "Sorta OT" to discuss it here (& for those requesting it be moved to the Sandbox). We all just need to do so as Ladies & Gentlemen please.

Initially I made the OP comparison to the RWC now being moved, while last Summer's FIFA World Cup (Soccer) did not - of course Andy is a fan of round ball footbal & a German whose national team wonl, & I'm a bit of a soccer fan too having played 6 years of HS & college & semi-pro soccer, but I'm more into the Rugby. That OP follows....

Admins - you once again moved from the Garage Forum - where most of us hang out - 2 Rugby World Cup topics which were properly posted as "OT" in the titles. This was also done 4 years ago to my 2011 RWC posts - also tagged as OT, as well as seemingly arbitrarily to many other OT posts by members who are not part of "the in crowd" over the years.

In doing so this past weekend to the RWC topics, I would say that you have insulted the OP & several members on here from the UK, Australia & New Zealand, who are in fact some of the international members who make this truly 914world - & not 914usa!

Admins & Members - the rules of this website say that OT posts are in fact allowed wherever, so long as they are properly tagged in the title as OT. Admins - please follow our rules & stop moving them to the Sandbox, or else revise the rules & let everyone know what the new rule is!

Members - if you aren't interested - or disagree or whatever, then don't read them, but stop complaining & asking Admins to move them, so those of us who are in fact interested, can participate in them in the Garage - where most folks go.

I'd suggest that perhaps you all read the rules, as they should NOT have been moved per those rules - nor the other topics as I noted herein!

If you're going to be an Admin, then do so fairly & evenly across all topics, not letting your buddies' posts "skate," while moving others arbitrarily & contrary to the 914world rules!

As quoted from my post at the other RWC topics improperly moved:

"Well regardless of having the appropriate OT title tag, some wanker admin ignored the site's rules & moved us to the Sandbox after a few months in the Garage, where folks actually look!

Our Rules:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=39040

> Re: "OT" as copied from those rules:
"* We welcome your off topic posts, but please label your post so it's obvious (begin your topic with "OT:")."

Whichever Admin moved these RWC threads - follow your own dang rules!!

You guy or guys really need to stop this Rugby only censorship, since you don't do so for all sorts of other useless BS messages/topics & other sports posted as OT!

You did NOT move the Soccer World Cup OT posts last time summer, so why do this now!!??"

Just Saying!
Tom
///////

I don't care either way but I don't think rugby belongs in the garage.

This sounds like Tom is right. If the rules for OT as set years ago allow OT anywhere then so b it. I saw the threads. No interest. I just skipped them. We do have a world wide community 914 holds us together but with other interests, others post. Sandbox has always been for plumbing issues and hot ladies. My 2€.

If these are the rules then they should be followed. Although our goal is the 914 and related information, our members are international/world-wide and do have interests involving off topic subjects. We all do not read the sandlot nor do we go any where near it. We offer something for everyone which has the prime interest in the 914 and Porsche. These are my thoughts and do find interesting OT subjects which I will read; otherwise, I go past them.

Excellence isn't expected. Admins do what they do for free and do the best they can. Just grateful they exist, block spammers, and keep the site healthy.

I don't care if Rugby is in the garage, but its a slippery slope if we just drop the rope.

IMO, this is 914World, not TopicOfTheDayWorld. anything outside of that context belongs in the Sandbox (that's what, by definition, the Sandbox is for).

And to imply that moving that topic insults people from the UK? Seriously? "Melodramatic" much? Where's that drama llama icon...?

Change the rules, all OT goes into the sub-forum created for OT discussion. If I want to discuss rugby (or baseball, or football, or soccer) I'll browse to RugbyWorld/BaseballWorld, etc...

Now, about all those annoying blue-highlighted threads...

GA

What's rugby?

This, without helmets, and all the time. I don't think they have cheerleaders.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2...-laterals-video

I think for an ot topic to remain in the Garage it should at least be automotive in nature.

You could have had your own blue highlighted thread.
I don't think the rules preclude paying someone else to do all the work do they?

This was my thought exactly. If it is car related, but not Porsche, then it belongs in the Garage but with an OT marker (OT in this context means automotive but not Porsche).

If it is not related to cars at all, then it belongs in the sandbox.

I totally agree with this also. I come to the garage to read about 914 or car related topics.

I'm in agreement also...
but mostly wanted to say to take it easy on the admins
this site is amazing for all of the work they do and all of the free hosting that Andy does...

no way we could adequately express all of the gratitude to the entire admin team at a level they deserve... so lets be nice to them !

Thanks Andy et al.!

Thank the lord we don't have any spammers over here

Then why don't you go ahead and re-write the rule so it says that, because it doesn't now.

As I said in my OP Andy & Chris - then change the rules to properly reflect the desired rules.

And then .... is an Originality question or Track/Racing post OT in the Garage? should they then be relegated only to those O&H or Paddock forums?

It's not about volunteer admins ... as it's a pretty simple rule as currently written, so not hard for them to know it.

It's really about using the rules in a consistent, fair & even manner. Even volunteers can & should do that.

I volunteer as a PCA Zone 8 Concours judge, so imagine if I arbitrarily applied or ignored the CdE rules. I doubt that many folks would be happy, & I'd be asked to correct my ways or stop judging, if I were favoring my buddies cars over others.

As a counter point on the value of OTs & they not being in the nudies & plumbing questions Sandbox - well a few of the latter & other unrelated stuff ends up in the Garage, as well as OT questions about what to sell stuff for, etc. - which could be relegated only to the Classifieds.

Those questions & info posts, as well as, those on alternative interests & hobbies - all of which can easily be passed over by those not interested - allows members to reach the most folks. It also gets pretty silly when the admins start moving a referring post to the topic in another Forum from the Garage, as had happened with my 2011 RWC referring posts, & some other CW stuff in the past.

Also, thru an early discussion in one of my 2010-11 Rugby posts with Elliot C., I was able to reconnect with a fellow Rugby teammate from USC, who had went on to be a UPS pilot with Elliot, as well as getting to know several of our UK, NZ & Oz members.

I think that such friendships are also a great benefit of such sites, & most of us are multidimensional individuals with more than one interest area.

IMHO it really doesn't hurt folks to have to scroll one more line past an OT post, which other members find of value.

But if that isn't the way SirAndy & the admins want to run the site, then clarify the rules, & then still apply evenly & consistently to all topics & members.

I did this post because the subject needs discussion & resolution, rather than continuing with an arbitrarily applied enforcement.

PS - maybe it's a good idea after some discussion for SirAndy to do a poll with a few options, & then modify the rule after a month or so of voting to the majority vote if anything has a clear majority, or leave it alone if not a clear preference.

That's my 4 cents .... considering inflation!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

SB914...

PM me sometime after the new year & I'll take you to one here in OC, & free to attend, since you're just up the road in Seal Beach!

Heck, I'll even explain it as we walk up & down the sidelines to watch the match up close & personal.

Same offer to any other SoCal or visiting members interested in Rugby!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

You should file a formal rules protest.

Moved with no heads up? It prob should have originally posted in the sand box anyway. BUT... hardly worth getting all worked up about but I understand your point. The "rules" are more like loose guidelines. No pink in the hot chicks ( gets pretty close), classified ads, and tiptoeing the lines between politics and religion. Sometimes it's but better than being all ratcheted down.

I have a lot of other interests, like bowling for example. I have other forums I frequent if I want to discuss what's going on in the PBA tour or to talk about new bowling balls, etc... I'm sure there are hundreds of forums for Rugby fans.

As someone else stated, this is 914world!

Note that the two just recently moved that prompted this post were not my posts/topics, I was just a participant in one of them, & the 2nd only after it got moved.

It's a rules clarity & consistency matter.

So either change the rules so that it's not the whim of a few individuals to arbitrarly decide -

... or else simply follow the current rules - which do in fact allow all such OT posts to remain in the Garage - even if it's not the RugbyWorld, BowlingWorld, We'reHavingaBBQworld, etc. forum or whatever else.

Simple!


Tom
///////

Since you are a stickler for rules (I do requirements/rules for a living), lets break it down:

"- We welcome your off topic posts, but please label your post so it's obvious (begin your topic with "OT:")."

The means: You may post OT, but you must label it as such.
That is pretty clear.

No where does it say that the admins shall not move said thread.
And it does NOT state that the thread SHALL stay in the original forum.

So the admins ARE following the rules.

Bitch to Sir Andy. Email and pm him. Call him if you have his number. Open up additional threads. Really annoy the hell out of him. Maybe the rule will get changed.

Sure, Stu, but it also doesn't say specifically that anyone's impeded from posting anything they want in any forum they want, right? Then the admins can move anything they want anywhere they want. Right? Play a shell game with posts? No rule against that, anyway. But that's a failure to prohibit, formal rule interpretation that gets silly in a hurry, so you almost have to depend on good will and common sense. And yes, I know that no one here has much of either. Still...

What I really want to know is who's going to volunteer to tell Mrs. K that from now on all Birthday Fairy posts will have to be in the Sandbox. She's really nice, so it's not going to be me, that's for sure.

Mrs. K is exempt from all the rules. That's my rule.

Did you notice the date on that thread? And the name of the author?
If and when i have some time to kill and nothing better to do i might just do that.



Until then, the garage is what it has always been, a forum for automotive related threads.

The main forum is called "914World Garage". That should have given you a hint.
It's not "914World Sports Bar" or "914World Living Room Couch" or "914World Titties and Beer".

We do have a "Sandbox" forum for that stuff ...

I cannot find anywhere in the rules that say "allowed wherever".. can you please post the link?

I don't have issues with OT posts, but standard forum practice for easy of use is to keep OT out of the dedicated areas.

last part... what does this have to do with us/them comments about the world?

That is the truth ...

Sure Andy, but it would have taken you less time to add three words to revise the rule than it did to write all this out. And double bonus is that once revised it's more accurate now and there for next time, too.

I think the Garage name is a carryover and has always meant the kinds of conversations you have with friends in your garage, hasn't it? The kinds of technical-bench racing-social b.s. sessions that people have in their garages? In fact that was exactly the reason for permitting and requiring the "OT" prefix for non-automotive subjects, wasn't it? So you could alert people to something non-auto related so they could choose to read or not? Why else would you require an OT prefix?

Actually wasn't the Sandbox was created specifically for Z and his always interesting titty-related photos? Plus some other stuff that came up at the time, but mostly for Mike. That I remember for pretty sure. But not for EVERY OT subject, that's the reason that "OT" prefix was kept.

No big deal, I guess, as long as I don't have to tell Mrs. K.

Can you imagine the outcry from the usual suspects (including you) if i had simply ninja edited the rules?



No. "Garage" was meant to be in the traditional sense of an automotive shop, not your personal garage at home.


Then you remember wrong. The Sandbox was created because there was a collective need for a off-topic forum.




No need, see my post above ...

Now can someone please move this to the Sandbox....

I think we have spent too much time on it already.

Andy says Sandbox, its Sandbox. Over.

Yeah, I don't like it over there so I'm not going to go look, but I'm pretty sure the explanation for that name that was given by a former chief admin on a former site, and it was meant to be for general conversation, the kind you'd have in your garage with friends. And in fact if as you say everything's already automotive what other explanation can there be to have a rule requiring an "OT" prefix for off-topic subjects? Off topic HAS to mean non-automotive. If that's wrong not a problem, just make the rules say that because they don't now.

Look, I started one of the now prohibited posts. It was early Saturday morning and the final championship game in England was just about to start. The games weren't being broadcast in the U.S. so I posted a link to where I found it being streamed online, as a heads-up for people who'd been talking about the tournament in a previous thread. It was pretty innocent, and the game ended long ago so it makes NO difference to me that the thread was moved. Again it's worth your time to revise rules when these questions come up. Ninja style if you like, no problem, whatever, just so the rules represent correctly.

You don't have to go "over there" since we have all the old posts here as well.

It was called a "split" for a reason ...

Look, nothing is "prohibited". Just moved to the Sandbox.
It's still there for all members to see, read and participate.

The sky isn't falling. The "World" isn't going to end. Your car isn't going to be off its jack stands. Nothing has changed.

Well , I get the flexibility of rules...that seems to come with the territory that an informal community inhabits...You know , freedom of the press , is enjoyed by those that own one , and all that .... but I can feel the frustration when something I enjoy following is deemed unworthy of a certain page , and so on...but the favorable treatment of some posters does seem to exist...my pet peeve is the ...what have you done to your 914 today...it is often similar to a face book page about the life of a certain poster , who really seems like a nice guy..but I don't care..........

You're right, I forgot. I was even the one who suggested the historic posts be duplicated so each site would start from the same place and evolve on from there. But between you and me it's probably not the work since you're going to be re-writing the rules anyway, right?

^this....I didn't plan on commenting...

Now that I checked, all my thread in the garage are automotive related

As I recall it, the garage was for 914 automotive posts, and all other automotive posts were to be labeled OT.

IIRC the sandbox didn't exist when EVERYTHING started way back when. So the ot label was fair warning. People also posted what might be considered NSFW items in the garage. Seen that warning in a while?

!! USING THIS!!

That's right. IIRC Redshift started a topic "The Sandbox, Do Not Look" in the European classified section long before World began. Been down hill since then.


Link?

Ah..Miles...this diagram of his is STILL funny.

Click to view attachment

Fun times for sure. Late nights were a panick.

So let me get this straight... This forum is free to all of us - some generous folks contribute their time and money to keep the World free and turning.

Yet the over reaction and attitude amazes me... I think someone is suffering from first world problems.

And now back to regularly scheduled programming - cars in the garage, politics, sports, etc in the sandbox.

But if you really want a change, try Lotus Talk, the self-proclaimed leader in Lotus forums where very few posts actually pertain to cars, so therefore Lotus ownership or interest is not required.

Do rugby players drive Holdens or Fords?