My car is pretty smelly and it's rather annoying as I like to daily drive. The engine (3.0L with Webers) is probably in need of a rebuild, thus burning oil, and there are no cats. Even though I did the /6 conversion myself I'm not really interested in doing a full engine rebuild myself. Paying somebody 10k minimum doesn't excite me either.

I've always had a dream of building an electric car but that's $$$. You can also buy a brand new LS3 engine for less than 8k. I could always sell my complete 3.0L along with the /6 conversion parts to fund a different engine project.

Just playing around with ideas. I might not do anything at all and just deal with it. Any thoughts?

Well, it all depends on what you want.

The big 6 and the V8 are two different animals. Both are wonderful, but they are different driving experiences.

You may be able to deal with fixing a bunch of leaks for a lot less then doing the conversion or rebuilding the 6 . . ..

Good Luck.

Pelican is the best resource for an engine rebuilt ,its not that hard,lots of members on there have rebuilt engines with little or few skills,the internet has enough info besides,many on here have good knowledge of these motors.
The 3.0 is a great engine IMO and is a great choice out of the six's,you may just need a top overhaul which isn't crazy money,really depends on your attachment to a Porsche engine in a Porsche car really and its value if you sell.
If your car is a daily driver you would be more than a little disappointed with an electric conversion over the 3.0 six.
What is actually wrong with your current engine?,sometimes there are solutions that may give you a little more life from it for not a huge outlay.

If you do pursue the V8 route, you'd probably be better off selling your car as-is and starting over (or buying a completed V8 car).

-Steve

[quote name='patssle' date='Dec 8 2015, 07:09 PM' post='22749



I like to daily drive.]












Word is ( this site ) a 1.7 with stock d- j e t

Can be world's best daily driver



But nobody shoehorn s a six out and goes back to the 4


Audi turbo 4 I'm sure doesn't smell and we'll behave

As much fun as a /6

Not sure

The 914 with the mazdarati engine
Now that looked fun

Agree that Pelican has amazing resources, and that you can do really well just overhauling the 3.0.

However, I respectfully disagree with the point about the electric conversion. Only problem is the cost of the conversion and the range (I've got 70 mile range at freeway speed). Makes it tough to do the Porsche runs. *shrug*

Cheers!

Is the smell oil or fuel? The Webers will certainly smell much more than a fuel injection system as they're vented to the air (especially with today's fuels). You may want to consider converting to a fuel injection system and sell the Webers to help offset the cost of the conversion. I personally would recommend keeping the Porsche engine in the car.

Sell the 3.0, drop in a stock 3.2. Weekend swap. Sell the 3.0 with carbs for $5K, buy the 3.2 for 8K. Even with extras your in it for less than $5K total and you have an engine that does everything well.

You may be able to deal with fixing a bunch of leaks for a lot less then doing the conversion or rebuilding the 6 . . ..

Good Luck.
[/quote]

There are so many area's on these motors that are a source of oil leaks,rocker covers,oil return tubes,front and rear seals,thermostat, oil pressure switch to name a few,unless you have a lot of oil smoke under throttle you would need to sort the leaks first to gauge true oil consumption.
I have read articles on Pelican concerning people using the wrong grade of oil and having smoking issues....not just on start up.

I agree with mepstein. Go 3.2...what do you have to loose other than money?

Going water-cooled conversion would be better to start with a car than has been cut up for it already.


Matt

sell it and buy something else...

Good feedback! There is a lot of info out there on engine rebuilds. I'm just wary from watching all the videos how many parts there are and my luck I would miss something. Especially since I've never touched an engine before - I would have no idea what I'm looking at and if it's in good condition or not. I need to do a leakdown/compression test to see what the general health is - I've been under the impression the engine has pretty good mileage on it.

Electric conversions are as good as the money you throw at it as range is directly related to battery storage. Which can add up very quickly in dollars if you want a legitimate range (which is partly why Tesla is so expensive with their battery packs).

Where are you guys seeing 3.2 engines for sale? I was looking through Pelican the other day and not many engines in general are available.

There's one on Pelican at the moment (that I am looking at buying) and a few on ebay

You have to place a wtb -
WTB complete 3.2 in very good running condition. Don't need he's or exhaust. Have up to $xxx to spend for the right engine. Have cash and no bs. Please contact me at. Xxx

Trust me, if your patient, it works. And the bonus is you are generally not in competition with other buyers.

And, if you want to stick with a 3.0 (a little less money) you can always buy another one and sell yours. Your total out of pocket wouldn't be all that bad.

Cool thanks! Of course buying another used engine can bring it all full circle - eventually sooner or later that engine will need a rebuild too.

Well, they all will if you use them.

This comment is too funny and often repeated ad nauseam regarding swaps. I have seen so many 914's with what appears to be roughly 25% of the metal cut away for restoration and repair - are you kidding me about the conversion cutting? Its absolutely minimal. With that logic, no one would be restoring them - just let them rot away.

If I were you, I'd go to a 3.6 but even that wouldn't been as flexible or compliant as a nice LS motor. Just stop already with the lousy excuses over cutting cars. Hilarious it is...

You have to determine if this car is your's for the long run...if so, those aircooled motors will be taking your money (forever). If you got it, no problem, you can feed the beast.

The cost would be subtsantial to do a nice LS - basically a 15-20K deal to do it nicely - just keep that in mind. It takes a bit of time too. Go for the 3.6 - 3.2 would be my second choice (if I were you).

Tony

I can't wait until my car smells like a six. Sounds like a perfume.

Brett

I'm currently rebuilding my brothers 3.0 6. It was suppose to be a simple broken head stud repair and it was pretty easy until one broke off almost plush with the case. Off to the machine shop it went at that point. One thing led to another and that turned into a bottom end job as it went on. Good thing too because the rod bearing on # 5 was on it's way out. I also found some metal chunks floating around the oil passage ports. The list goes on. I'm going to say it's a pretty straight forward and a task that anyone with some mechanical know how can do.
This would be my 4 th 911 engine that I've rebuild. It requires some special tools but nothing that can't be purchased used if need be.

I would recommend this if you're not up to the task. Go to Pelican parts and look up Bruce ( Flat6pac ) he's been rebuilding 911 engines for as long as I can recall.
I've known Bruce since the mid 80's and is a stand up guy. I believe he rebuilt a 3.2 for a member here ( cairo ? ) not long ago so you maybe able to get his input on dealing with him. If you choose to go that route. Bruce also has a fresh 3.0 for sale that he may do a swap and cash with you on. It's worth a shot to check it out.

I'm telling you by the time you do your own rebuild you will spend more then what you would think. The parts alone so far on my brothers build is well over $4000.00 which includes new pistons/reman cylinders, redone heads, cams/rockers, bearings, seal kit, rod/head stud hardware, etc etc.. and there's more parts to be had before it's all over and done with. Then factor in the machine shop work which is not included in that $4000.00..All that with you doing the work. If you had to pay a shop to do the work figure another $ 3000 + in labor. you get my point by now. It's not cheap by any means.

I have owned a v8 conversion car. The "cut up" comment is not just the body. It's drilling holes, it adding/modifying wiring, it's modifying the transaxle and CV upgrades plus the modification of flares to fit bigger rubber.

Cost wise is always better to buy a stalled project, unless you plan to do an uber custom conversion.

M

I have rebuilt hundreds of engines in my life and about 30 911 based engines over the last 10 years or so. The 911 engine itself is a very robust and typically are not big smokers unless they sit allot or in your case probably have aluisil cylinders and they tend to have issues with rings and will smoke. I used some QSC cylinders on my turbo build about 6 years ago and they were great. cost about 1k and bought them from supertec. I also used JE pistons. I drove the car a fair amount and it only smoked when it sat for extended periods but only for a few seconds. I ran a 3.2 intake with MEga squirt and it worked flawlessly. I did not smell like the car etc.

Now when I had carbs on a 2.7 of mine I always smelled like carbs.. I am a long way away from being ready to make any final decsions but I will probably do another 3.2 intake on what ever engine I decide on and do megasquirt or something similar.

I am guessing carbs are the majority of your issues. Really consider ITB's or something else like that or swap a complete 3.2 in. The 3.2's are nice engines and as many have mention the cost difference is probably not a huge amount once you sell your 3.0

I recently rebuilt my 3.0 weber six, which did help some on smell but didn't cure the problem. Cured start up smoke.

I found out recently part of the problem is webers typically run 11.5:1 afr at a cruise which doesn't help. Also they are typically pretty rich at idle. A few tricks I've learned that help- When you first start up your car and its really stinky, rollup all your windows and leave the top on when you leave the house. Also buy an AFR gauge and tune your idle afr to be 14-15:1. These two items kept me from being a stinky bastard...

You can also lean out your idle circuit some, but it will create a less desirable transition to the main circuit on the carbs...

Another solution is PMO ITB's, if you have the time to dedicate it looks to take about 2 months to complete it as a weekend project and cost about $6-7k (and you can sell the webers)

I considered a 3.2, but was concerned of the actual condition of the motor I'd get. Plus I love the sound and simplicity of carbs. If it were my daily driver I may have gone 3.2 for the efi perks.

good luck!

I have a set of Zeniths which I haven't run yet. Curious if they are any less stinky than the Webers in anyone's experience.

Brett

Yeah I just did some quick research. ITBs do look nice but certainly add some complexity to the car. My car has been stripped of non-essentials so it's about as basic as possible which I enjoy. But it's definitely something that warrants more in-depth research of what is needed to make it possible.

Not much if any.. I have considered converting zenith s to itbs as the value is way less then webers

Do a leak down test before anything else.
You have no idea if the engine needs rebuilding.
Oil leaks are usually pretty easy to find and repair.
Get everything clean, run the car, and look for fresh oil.

Some yrs ago I purchased a 1980 911SC with about 120K miles on the clock which had a bad oil leak. Turns out it was the oil pressure transducer that sits on top of the engine. This of course dripped down onto the H/E's. Could not get to it without pulling the motor. While I was in there, I pulled the heads & cylinders in order to inspect everything to that point. Had access to precision inspection equipment back then. The Nickisal cylinders still had cross hatch marks and were within OEM tolerance for bore size. The valve guides were also within OEM size, so all I did was a lap in valve job, new rings, pressure fed chain tensioners, and a gasket set. Got out pretty cheap other that jet hot coating the whole exhaust system. Of course this engine had the OEM CIS injection system, that yr was the first to use feedback from a lambda sensor wench helped me get the idle mixture correct.
Not sure which 3.0 motors ted the Nickles cylinders, but don't be too discouraged.

Is the smell an oil smell? I saw the question a few posts ago but not an answer.

I have a 2056 T4 with webers and I get the oil smell in the cabin with heat.

I've tried to mount the crankcase breathers right on the carb filters. It helps but when I let off the gas the smell gets stronger.

Trying to figure out how to get the air from the breathers to go 100% into the carbs. I'm close but still need some adjustments.

Bruce (Flat6pak) on the Pelican site rebuilt my 3.2. Now, we have not installed it in the car or fired it yet, so I can only comment on working with Bruce. He was a terrific guy to work with and kept me well informed and updated throughout the project. We spent at least an hour on the phone talking about the build specs before he touched the motor. His advise is what I needed and relied upon to build an engine for my Six that would be bullet proof.

Now I did not want a "race" motor. I wanted a solid 3.2 with the original Motronic injection that would start and run perfectly every time. The only real upgrade to the 3.2 was the 964 cams and a custom Steve Wong chip. I would guess I am into the completed motor for <$11K, including purchasing the motor. I think that is very reasonable and hope that when Scotty installs it and turns the key it fires immediately and runs perfectly forever.

I seriously considered a 3.6 for my car. But in the end I believed the 3.6 would be overkill for what I wanted. I am not going to be tracking or auto crossing my car. It is just going to be a fun street driver for mostly around town and some local trips. The 3.2 ticked off all of the boxes and the was that.

OH, I found my 3.2 by placing a WTB in the Pelican classified section. A word of caution here. The motor was represented as being a slight smoker with 40K miles on it that had never been opened up. Now, I planned from day one at the minimum to split the cases and have it refreshed and resealed to provide me some comfort as to future performance and reliability. However, once Bruce got my engine it became clear it had been opened up before so we ended up doing more than expected to make it right. I am not mad about that, but a little upset the seller, a long-time Pelican member, misrepresented the motor. In the end, I am much better off knowing Bruce did a full rebuild as now I won't worry about the motor. Money well spent.

On the 3.0 there is a fin count method, You would have to look up the details.
Doesn't work on most other sizes IIRC.

On the sound/smell issues. besides other things mentioned above, I'd try a stock /6 air cleaner.
Many say it's less noise, more power and not as much fumes.

I think it's more fuel especially with the carb comments from others. I need to get an AFR tool and see if they need tweaking.

Just a suggestion...

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-porsche-914-v8/

These motors can go for many miles. I pulled mine apart because of start-up smoke and decel smoke (was just going to do valve guides, but it turned into a larger project).

Converted my car to a freshly rebuilt 2.2 six with Webers, and have to say I don't much care for the smell of fuel—which is now ever present if I bring the car home and park it in the garage, and we tuned these carbs on the dyno.

I suspect the smell might be reduced, but I also suspect we've really been spoiled by how "unsmelly" modern cars are.

ITBs, or something else, sounds pretty appealing, to be honest.

Pete

This is the first question you need to answer for yourself, it leads to the options that will solve the root of the problem.

FI is a great solution to fuel smell caused by carbs and there are systems that retain individual throttle bodies and the crisp throttle response you have with the carbs. They also enable a more precise fuel curve which helps with drivability, cold start, fuel economy, etc.

If it's an oil burning smell then it's likely leaks like others have said and you can tackle most with limited mechanicing experience.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Excellent points,I have researched this after buying my motor years ago and the late great Bruce Anderson had dyno'd a six with K&N and stock air cleaner,the K&N's lost 1hp over the stock filter and then theres the issue of fuming as mentioned.
In the 914 there is also the issue of of rain water getting in the K&N's,not good for any engine .