Some of these conversions look interesting, but I am at loss on how to figure what they are really worth.. There is obviously a lot of work involved, but does it make them worth more or less? My guess is if you take a real nice 914-4 that is worth $16k and do a conversion to a Porsche 6 - it would probably cost $12k - but is it worth $35k or $20k?? Same with a V8. Most don't look like they took a really nice car to start with as "why cut it up".

Anyway - I'd appreciate some input - I just sold my 74 2L and enjoyed the resto process and looking at different ways to go.

.

A good six conversion will cost the builder not the buyer,the prices you quote are in the ballpark dependant on motor used.
Better to buy a well done car and make it the way you want as many have done on here.
Anyone that can quote the motor conversion closely is a brave man,its all the small bits that stack up,my own car was most of the way there but I have easily spent 5K for all the little bits and bobs.
The 911 hotrod craze has not helped the supplies of good core motors,prices have gone thru the roof of late ,some will remember what the least desirable running 2.7 was worth a half a decade back.
More cars will be fitted with non original Porsche motors as time goes on,nothing will stop that.

Mine is apparently worth a Cayenne Hybrid. I turned down that offer. 3.2 DME with faithful GT bits.

There is no consistency within teener builds...each has to be evaluated on their own merit. I have owned each model you listed (4/6/8) - the "4" had a 11K dollar Fat Performance motor but I bought the car for 10G's. That didn't work out for the builder. My six was the worst of my bunch but sold (just because of the six) for a little more than I bought it for (it was a 2.7, slow and stinky). It "looked cool" but I am far more impressed with a cars "real" performance rather sitting at car shows discussing what it could "hypothetically" do, performance wise. I sold my LS conversion in the height of the recession (2010) for 2.5 times what the six went for - this was a pretty expensive build though.

From what I've seen with v/8 conversions...most are god-awful. It has nothing to do with starting with a "cut up car" rather than the lack of money available for the project by the builder. Start cheap = end cheap. They get enticed by the lure of bigger power for pennies - it ain't that easy and it shows in their finished product. Generally speaking, the six conversions are generally nicer but there are still some duds out there - not to mention the "body/uni-body" issues that plague all 914's. Got to be careful...

At my first event two-weeks ago (I have an LS conversion); many people came over time and time again to look at my car. Interesting enough, the man who "came over the most" was a 991 GT3 owner who just couldn't believe what "my car was doing on the track; at his cars expense". He asked what was involved? I said 1200 man hours and a boat-load in cash. He told his "team" to "...build me one of those!". I thought he was going to make the offer to "trade" - I would've turned him down as I would be bored with a GT3 in about half-a-day.

To each their own but to what you asked - no one car is the same as the other - the same goes for these builds. It goes way beyond the engine installed. All the best as you figure out what right for you.

Tony

That is some seriously gorgeous grass...do you know what they used for fertilizer?

Tony

People don't do conversions for their resale value, they do them for performance. Don't underestimate that logic, because it's powerful. It's possible to be satisfied with the performance of a 1.8L, I guess, but more is better, it really is. A lot better.

There is no quick easy answer for this as there are so many different ways to do a -6 conversion. If you like the excitement and challenge of hunting for parts that others have purchased but never will get around to using then you can save quite a lot of money. It will all be washed away if you don't have the inclination or time to do the labor side of the equation yourself as the hours will mount up at any reputable shop. If you want to talk about the process feel free to PM me with your contact info. I've done a -6 conversion and have all the documentation. I did everything myself except rebuild the engine and wire up the electronics and invested $20k...in addition to the car which I paid $4750.00 for back in 1983!

I see them selling for the price of the parts and maybe the paint job too. Labor not included

The easiest way is to value the components and then add extra for "quality".

What do I mean?

Good Running 3.0 with documented engine work $8-10K+
Real 6 components: oil tank ($1K), engine tin ($500), etc.
Fuchs: $1200 and up depending on rim size
Suspension: real 911 suspension prices vary
Tub value (pending condition): $1000 and up

So, if you look at an average car with a little rust, a decent running 6 and most of the 6 parts you may be looking at around $15K+

From there you start adding for quality...

Rebuilt 3.2? add an extra $5K+
Show quality paint? Add another $4 or $5K+
Perfect body with no rust: Add another several thousand
Beautiful interior? Add another couple thousand for the wow factor

A pristine car with all the right parts and that someone really wants to own will bring really big money.

To chime in on the v8 or non porsche conversion spector of things It really depends on the car itself... the prices are actually similar to a 4cyl car but add 2-5k depending.

For example a project conversion car which is near complete but needs to be sorted out is probably 3-5k. A similar condition 4 is about 1-4k. Were talkig about cars needing full restore but have all the components.

Now a driver quality car, decent paint and looks OK is probably 7-12 depending on parts. Similarly a driver 4 would be say 5-10.

A very Nice fully sorted clean conversion is probably 15-30 and parts and quality will really bring that up. A similar 4 would be 10-20.

I disagree. That's the way you get to those ads that say "over $XXXX invested". As if you can get any return on the investment. You can put $50K into a car, but if it doesn't appeal to anyone but yourself you have a car that's worth approximately nothing. It can even be worth less than nothing, because people will factor in how much it would cost to un-do the changes you made to suit you.

For instance: Check the 914s with body kits. A nicely-done Chalon will probably set you back $10K; more if you're paying someone else to do it. But the market for Chalons is really small, so even nicely-done ones seem to be worth less than stock or GT-bodied cars.

If you want to see what a car is worth, you've got to do a bunch of research to see what similar cars have sold for recently. Selling price, not asking price. And you also have to realize that some sales are atypical--the buyer just had to have one exactly like that particular car, or the car was at a high-end auction and someone got caught up in a bidding frenzy, or whatever.


In general, any conversion can be sold at a loss. Even if you value your time at zero, most of them still seem to sell at a loss. Really very well done ones might go for more than the cost of the parts, but the average ones will probably go for less.

--DD

All great input. It's a bit confusing out there. There is a car locally that I am going to look at today. It is an 71 http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/5343744457.html

He wants, what I think, is crazy money. Based on the picture, I'd value in the high teens??? I am going to eyeball it. He is a dealer of some sort. I'll be near by his place.

I disagree with your disagreement.

Quality is a qualitative measure...not quantitative.

If you read what I said, you start with the value of the components (that you could realistically part out....maybe I should have been more clear) and add pricing for quality (whatever the buyer's definition of quality may be) and go from there.

I never said anything about getting your money back....

So, in my example above an okay 6 conversion would be around $15K. A super nice conversion with a rebuilt 3.2, excellent body and interior would be $25-$30K...which is well in (or even under) market.

I think in today's market the is a high 20's car

I don't see running conversions in the teens anymore

Georgia bullshit. Thanks for asking!

...that made me laugh!

T

It was supposed to!

Interesting AC installation. Is that the condenser in the engine compartment or an oil cooler. Then what's the big box in the rear trunk?

That car certainly is worth a look as you truly couldn't build it today for that price. I assume that box in the rear trunk is the AC condenser and seems out of place in an otherwise nice looking conversion.

All of these prices are making me cringe. Most desireable, obviously, 3.6 conversion. I think Patrick Motorsports advertise a 3.6 conversion at $30k without the motor. LS conversions cost more than you think they will. All of this makes me start thinking about Boxsters. Boxster: 6cyl -check. Smooth 6spd. -check. Torsionally stiff -check. Modern suspension -check. Modern brakes -check. Cheap entry -check.

I took a look at it. He took as part of selling a Ferrari to some guy. I wasn't too impressed. He advertised it as restored. The paint was OK, interior OK but never renewed - so worn but not bad. The underside of the car and suspension looked like it was never touched so it was pretty rough and California version of "surface rust". The Box is the AC. It's a 2.4 1973 T motor with CIS - engine compartment was pretty dirty. He is asking $30k to $35K (depending on which ad you look at) and also has it on Ebay where it was at $19500 last time I looked. I'd rather have a really nice 2L than this car.

nice core motor block... small spigot 7R then...
that block and another wheel barrel full of cash would make a cool small bore race motor...

Sure. Only problem with that strategy is that you end up with a Boxster.

A purse holds more than a wallet but sometimes it's not about practicality.

That was a smart move/ Winning on your part !

It was a Zone 8 guy that I've known for 20 years. Also owns a 918 Spyder and a few others...

$12,000
The price I felt was fair for my 1973 914 on 911S deep sixes (right day, right buyer, fingers crossed) when I started collecting parts for my 2.2E/S six conversion in 2010.

$15,000
The price I figured it would be worth to someone else when the car was repainted and the engine conversion was all done, given that it was going to be done well with a lot of great parts including NOS oil tank, unstressed T case, Mahle P&Cs, etc. In other words, it was a really stupid thing to paint and convert it. Of course, I proceeded.

(Fast forward to 2015, and all that has happened in the last few years)

"I dunno, $30,000 or $35,000?"
My answer to an R Gruppe guy asking what he might pay for a 914 like mine as he looked the car over. His response? "At least that." He'd already asked how long I'd had it, and knew the answer included "high school"—so he didn't ask what I think he was ready to. I am glad he didn't.

In my case, all of the above is irrelevant other than for the purposes of insurance. Regarding the OP's question, I think it is very case by case—but I think that early Porsches are one of the few cars that seem to do just fine if they are tastefully modified (read: reasonably broad appeal). With top real 914-6s hanging out to either side of $100k, it's easy to see really good conversions sitting in the $25-50k gap depending on their quality and condition.

$0.25-0.50 on the dollar. Builder gets to eat the cost. Buyer enjoys the "free work".

Part of the reason I had so much of the work done by Original Customs was to add resale value. (I'm not thinking about selling so don't ask) Mark was just told to do the work. I didn't ask for a price in advance because ours is a time and material world. If I ever sell, I doubt anyone could question Original Customs quality...

Not on this coast...

This may sound like the start of a "A guy walks into a bar..." but
A guy walks into my exhaust system exhibit at Rennsport5 and just focuses in on my black six conversion. He then just rambles "So I just hand you a check, sign a contract, and you build me one of these biturbos, right ?"
I say that " I just build pipes sir", I don't build cars for a living...left it at that. Do you think he figured out the nickels and dimes involved in a build like this car?

Not for a moment. The market is international and few guys here are cognizant of that. The market requires patience and few guys are patient when they sell.

As of right now I have 45K in my unfinished 6 build. Consider that I am rebuilding the engine, trans, and painting the car as well. I welded on steel flares, and am putting a high end 2.7 in there. Every part on the car is about the best I can buy. Everything is upgraded.

And I got some wicked deals as well (example, Webers for $1400). I shopped very hard and did not use a single outside vendor.

So a quality build is very expensive. What would I sell for? For starters, i never sell. But my Haggerty policy will say "valued at 85K" because I doubt anyone could build this car with these components for that number unless they did it all themselves like I am.

in the classifieds is a god example of value.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=267555

I think this car is awesome. With one exception. Paint.

Although the vinyl wrap looks great, I think there is a higher value in good body work and paint. Even if it were painted the same color as the wrap.

Remember that asking price is not necessarily selling price...

--DD

As with many things for sale, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay. How many times have you watched Barrett-Jackson or Mecham auctions and seen a ride you'd buy in a heartbeat for the same as some lucky schmuck just did? Somedays you can't give stuff away, other days you sing to the bank. Mine is far from finished but I doubt if I'd want to sell it- I'm building it for me and no one else. I want to throw a bag together, grab my lady and drive till dark without issues- that's why I'm going Subaru, something I'm familiar with and will be as trouble free as my Harley was
Driving mine someday soon is the goal and so far the journey has been worth more than the price of the parts and labor... to me.

There is only one way to value these cars and it's called fun factor. If the car puts a smile on your face while driving it, it's priceless. It's all about the driving experience. BMW is so correct with that quote.

i guess...

for insurance is replacement value...

for resale is what market will bare...

for general value is what each of the parts it worth and what labor was worth...

but yes, if you ignore all this, and resort to fun factor, you'll be much happier.

that said, I will trade my car for cracker's car in a RED HOT SECOND, just saying

Agree, like the car a lot. So does the fact that all panels are fiberglass on the car but the doors effect value?

What about vintage V8 with fuel injection and 901 vs and LS motor and boxster trans?

I tend to agree with Mike that having nice paint with both trunks painted and engine bay matching goes a long way in value.

[quote name='matthepcat' date='Dec 19 2015, 10:51 AM' post='2279012']
Agree, like the car a lot. So does the fact that all panels are fiberglass on the car but the doors effect value?

What about vintage V8 with fuel injection and 901 vs and LS motor and boxster trans?

I tend to agree with Mike that having nice paint with both trunks painted and engine bay matching goes a long way in .



It would be to expensive to do fuel injection on old v8 and the 901 sucks compared to
Boxster s 6 speed.


I think it says a lot that you don't see ANY LS + boxster S 6 speed cars for sale.
There incredible to drive!!!! And expensive to build but so worth it.

How about this car? Asking $22k - seems pretty nice. Too bad it's at a dealer.


For Sale 1974 Porsche 914 V8 Yellow exterior with Black vinyl interior. This is the best year of the 914 model, with original "Appearance Group" package with built in driving lights, center console with gauges and center arm rest storage. This example has been further enhanced by Renegade Hybrids, who are known for thier expertise in V8 conversions on most Porsche models. So a Chevy 327 (bored out to 331) small block Chevy was installed that puts out approximately 350 horsepower instead of the most powerfull 2.0 liter engine that put out 90 horsepower when new. In addition, the transmission was rebuilt and strengthened along with different gearing and larger diameter output flanges to accommodate the upgraded heavy duty axles with 930 constant velocity (CV) joints. Of course a complete Porsche 911 front suspension and front braking system was installed as well as Koni rear shocks with Bilstien front struts. To improve reliability and performance the following items have been installed:
-Edelbrock Performer intake manifold
-Edelbrock Performance cylinder heads
-Holly 4 barrel Performance carberator
-Ceramic coated performance headers
-Dual exhaust system
-Holley high performance electric fuel pump
-High output electronic ignition distributor
-High output 8mm spark plug wires
-High volume Renegade Hybrids water pump
-Chrome engine dress up kit, (chrome valve covers, air cleaner assembly, oil breather)
-Heavy Duty radiator with thermostatically controlled electric cooling fan
-Modern fuse panel conversion
-New coolant hoses and coolant pipes
-Optima Red Gell battery
-205/55/16 radial tires on all four wheels
-Porsche space-saver spare wheel/tire
-Stainless steel performance brake lines
-High torque starter
-Porsche original Fuch alloy wheels in 6x16 size

In addition, we had our service department perform the following repairs:
Repaired horn, replaced gear shifter bushings, steem cleaned undercarraige of road grime, brake fluid flush, new front trunk seals, fender seals, targa top seals replaced, vehicle sent to body shop for complete color sanding and polishing of paint finish, also, installation of front cooling system trunk screens. Vehicle has been completely detailed and is ready for immediate delivery. Of course it has the original jack, original owners manual, and original keys.

If you have ever considered doing one of these conversions, it is "ALWAYS" better to buy one that has been completed. A very large amount of time and money has been invested in building and sorting this car to get it in its current condition. It not only looks great but is extremely fun to drive. It has very quiet mufflers that give the car a "sleeper" type of attitude and it can be driven slowly and cautiously if you want to. However, when you push that right pedal down get ready for the thrill of your life and many suprised looks from other drivers and onlookers as you literally leave them in the dust! I have personally owned and driven many exotic cars over the years, but these V8 conversion 914 cars always put a huge smile on my face everytime I drive one. They handle great, look great and go like stink for a very reasonable amount of money.

Seems like a fair price for a good car.

Disposable engines go boom - check

"How much for the little girl?" Got to love the check book buyers!

The answer to the question of value is... It depends.

Are you a buyer or a seller?
Do you want it now, or perhaps later?
Is it the color / build / components what you've always wanted?
Will your wife let you have it?
Is the seller a reputable person?
Is there a good history of the car?
Do you really know what you are getting into?

There's a handful of conversion cars I wish I had pulled the trigger and bought then for now. Not for the money but for the build quality. Like Elliot's yellow zonker, the European Car yellow conversion, a well sorted red one back in the day.

It also needs to fit your taste and style. I have what most people consider the dream 914/6 conversion, but it's so damn nice I don't want to drive it. I want a driver vs the show piece but I can make it a driver quite easily. The decision will be made on my personal preference on the 2.4. I will not cut this car for a 3.0.

So value? It depends....