Sometime in the next few months I would like to install a either a 4 or 5 point harness in my car. Mainly just for AXing but I might actually take it to a DE or two

So here is my novice questions.

1) can you get a 5 point harness but use it as a 4 point? leave the 5th point uninstalled until needed?

2) is a 5 point over kill?

3) are there different style locks for the belts? is one better than another for a Street / AX car?

I can get used belts from road racers here in my SCCA club. These belts are ok to use for AXing.

Thxs

QUOTE (itsa914 @ Mar 15 2005, 10:30 AM)

Sometime in the next few months I would like to install a either a 4 or 5 point harness in my car. Mainly just for AXing but I might actually take it to a DE or two So here is my novice questions. 1) can you get a 5 point harness but use it as a 4 point? leave the 5th point uninstalled until needed? 2) is a 5 point over kill? 3) are there different style locks for the belts? is one better than another for a Street / AX car? I can get used belts from road racers here in my SCCA club. These belts are ok to use for AXing. Thxs

To me, the 5th point makes ALL the difference in how the harness fits. Otherwise, the lap belt is very difficult to keep situated properly. I drove with 4-pts for a couple of years before going to 5 and could not believe the difference.

Go for 5.

1, Yep a 5/6 point can be used as a 4. Each tab inserts seperatly into the buckle / retaining device. Although once you've used the 5th strap you'll probably want to keep using it.

The do 2 things A, prevent you from sliding under the waist straps (submarining) & B, prevent the waist strap from climbing up your hips/belly when you torque down the chest straps.

2, nope a 5 or 6pt is a big safety improvement.

3, there are a few styles, if their FIA or MSI (??) approved your getting a guarantee that those belts & latches are capable of saving your life. Anything else is just risky.
Latches are generally push button, latch Or twist.

Belts stretch with use & are mandated to be thrown out by racers after a shunt or 5 approx years from manufactur . After an accident the belts are junk. I wouldn't risk 2nd hand belts. Unless you know their exact condition.

I like my 5 point ALOT!
What seat are you using? somewhere in the SCCA rules there is a staement about not cutting a seat to pass a sub belt through. either stock or stock prepared. My RECARO SRD allows me to snake the sub belt between the bottom cushion and the seat back. sub belt is anchored to the inside seat belt bolt in the floor pan.

Sub belts are great on dates with the new girl friend. If she is wearing a mini skirt and will buckle up herself "keep her" if she can buckle herself but would rather you do it buy her flowers.

Anyway the sub belt really helps keep the lap belt down low when you cinch down on the shoulder belts. WAYYYYY SNUGGER.

QUOTE (itsa914 @ Mar 15 2005, 12:30 PM)

1) can you get a 5 point harness but use it as a 4 point? leave the 5th point uninstalled until needed?

yes, but it's less-than-safe, which is how sanctioning bodies realised there was a need for 5- and 6-point solutions.

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2) is a 5 point over kill?

no. but unless you have a seat that permits the sub belt to be mounted almost directly under where you are sitting, it's not a good idea.

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3) are there different style locks for the belts? is one better than another for a Street / AX car?

yes. i VERY MUCH prefer the CamLock type over the Hook-and-Loop. it's a little more expensive, but the ability to hook each belt in separately and have it positively latch instead of trying to keep 5 hooks in place at the same time makes it MUCH more convenient to use. it MAY be a little safer in use as well, as there is no possibility of a hook getting hung up in the latch. i also prefer the CamLock type where you twist, rather that strike, the knob, or flip a lever. For example, Simpson uses the lever and G-Force makes the twist type. others, too, i'm sure, but i'm not conversant with all the names that do

QUOTE

I can get used belts from road racers here in my SCCA club. These belts are ok to use for AXing.

you mean, they are permitted. there is a reason track events have life-limits and date tags on belts. i would not go too long past the SFI tag on a belt. exposure to standard automotive fluids and especially sunlight will degrade a belt's strength.

Agreed with the above.

I suggest that you do not run the "sub belt" around the front of the seat, though. That will angle the buckle into your gut, which will not make you happy if you actually "need" the belt.

I use 6-point belts; the two straps to the sub-belt connector lay on the seat and I sit on them. This allows you to use a sub belt without having a hole in your seat. (One of my goals was not to cut extra holes in any part of the car.) Or check Trekkor's harness install (he has pics in another thread recently) for how he did it with a hole cut in the seat.

There are two main styles of fastener; latch-lock and cam-lock. Latch-lock is generally much cheaper, but you have to have all the pieces in the right place before you close the latch. Every time you put the belt on. Cam-lock belts let you just push each tab into the latch independantly.

--DD

If you can get a set of used belts for a low enough price (free) you can send them out and get new webbing put on the old hardware and buckles.

My opinion is the opposite of the two previous post. I have used both the cam latch and the lever latch in previous race cars. I like the lever latch better. With the lever latch all of the pieces feel more intigrated and more comfortable to me. With the cam latch it felt like a big knot in my crotch.

A 5 or 6 point harness is a great addition to any autocross car. It should cut your lap time by a second or two when you can concentrate on driving and you are not having to fight to keep in your seat. It will also be the end of the bruised left knee symptom from trying to brace yourself after a day on the track.

From what I have read - you can't get a street legal 5 point, but schroth does sell a street legal 4 point. I have some measure of respect for scroth since they invented the hans device, which while a little bulky seems to be savin' some life on tracks all around the place.

So if you want street legal - you might want to go with the scroth 4 point. They have done some work on the submarining problem as well.

Personally - I'm keeping the stock belts and adding a 5 point cam lock (once I get my seats and cage). I plan to use both sets of belts on the street which will a) keep me alive when I get sideswiped off the road over by some bimbo in a Chevy Hugepenis-yukon-tahoe-big-rugged-mountains-in-Millbrae-and-got-to-tow-my-lawnmower-checkout-my-spinners-bizitch, plus I can tell the law officer who tries to ticket me for driving 66 in a 65 zone that I'm legal because I still have the factory belts on. Everybody's happy!

I like my dads G force twist ones better than my Simpson lever one's...

The G force ones are cheaper as well...

Get 5 point and put in the sub belt later.

Simple!

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how he did it with a hole cut in the seat.

I'm happy as can be.

KT