So I did a valve adjustment a while ago, after starting the engine and hearing it pop and splutter on the intake side, and on the last valve (of course it was the last one!), I found the valve was stuck open.

I dropped the engine and pulled the head on Sunday, and here is what I found:

Down the port...

The combustion chamber...

... ooooof..


m

And the port damage...

Now here's the problem! The 914 didn't com to Australia, and apparently the T-4 bus was only a 1.7 for about 6 months, so replacements are rare, and expensive (like $600 for USED!)

I'm planning a big four rebuild down the track, say two years away, so I want to save my pennies for that, but I also want to get my car running and registered by August, for the tenth anniversary of owning the car.

The search continues...

Ouch. BTDT. At least the valve didn't break off.

Ahhh, my eyes.... my eyes.... (in my best Phoebe voice)

So are you needing a head? I can hook you up. Just Pm me and we can come to some low price. Shipping could suck

That head can be fixed. I have seen Rimco fix much worse than that. Steve has a new machinist that can do it too. I would send it off to be fixed.

Send them both. if you got one head hot enough to drop a seat then the other may not be to far behind. Then you can get bigger valves to go with your bigger engine plans. 1.7 heads are sturdy enough I have a set of 48 x38 heads that I gots plans for the next lump.

Oh yea get your head temp gauge installed where you can see it better.

Man you should feel lucky, Droped vavle seat could have easily done more than head damage!
Eric

a member stateside should be able to hook you up with a set of heads 1.7 or 1.8 heads on the "cheap". have your choise (stateside) of machinest do the refresh, and have them sent down under as "used" items. put a bow on the package and maybe you can slide through customs and duty as a "gift" from an old 914 friend in the states. look into Ham or steve's guy.

kevin

Any half-moon shaped "kiss" marks on the top of the piston? I have two pistons with those marks, myself....

Why is it always the intake seats?

--DD

Because the relatively cold intake charge cools the very hot seat enough to contract it and make it small enough in its bore to start dropping out.

so how does one prevent this from happening...

Don't get the heads hot.... Thats what creates this..

Even the crappiest valve seat install won't fall out if the heads don't get over 400F..

If you don't want this to happen again- Call me. A correctly installed seat of the right metallurgy won't drop out at 575F...

so just stay away from the red zone on the temp guage? Seems easy enough.

Get a head temp gauge use it as a speed limiter. IF IT IS GETTING SLOW DOWN!!!!

My offer for cheap heads still stands.

Ummn,
The "Red Zone" is OIL TEMP! Its TOTALLY unrelated the HEAD TEMP....

You can easily have baked heads with cool oil.

Porsche and VW BOTH need their asses kicked for not monitoring head temps in these cars from the factory....

Head temps are load related directly and heavily impacted by tuning. Running around in 5th gear at 2800RPM will keep your oil cool as a cucumber and fry your heads due to increased load and lack of cooling fan pressure.

Buy a CHT gauge. Oil temp is slow to respond to changes, hardly impacted by tuning and a poor observation method of looking at the entire engine.

Head temps are severely impacted by low speeds and lugging... If the heads get too hot drop a gear and wind the engine up and WATCH them drop 100 degrees in 30 seconds.

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Mar 17 2005, 01:23 PM)

Ummn, The "Red Zone" is OIL TEMP! Its TOTALLY unrelated the HEAD TEMP.... You can easily have baked heads with cool oil. Porsche and VW BOTH need their asses kicked for not monitoring head temps in these cars from the factory.... Head temps are load related directly and heavily impacted by tuning. Running around in 5th gear at 2800RPM will keep your oil cool as a cucumber and fry your heads due to increased load and lack of cooling fan pressure. Buy a CHT gauge. Oil temp is slow to respond to changes, hardly impacted by tuning and a poor observation method of looking at the entire engine. Head temps are severely impacted by low speeds and lugging... If the heads get too hot drop a gear and wind the engine up and WATCH them drop 100 degrees in 30 seconds.

well how would i mount a CHT sending unit in my car, and obviously I'd need one on each side

Get rid of your stereo, and put three gauges there. CHT, oil temp, oil pressure I put air fuel ratio on the center tunnel forward of the shifter.

You don't have to have one on each side... You should monitor #3 the closest, its always the hottest. In my findings a constant 50-75 degree split is common between the 1-2 bank and the 3-4 bank with 3&4 always being hottest. 1-2 never really runs hot unless something leans them out. (Thats the wonderful cooling system VW gave us to work with causing the split)

Install the thermocouple for the gauge under the #3 sparkplug (NO WHERE ELSE) and place the gauge wherever you want in the cabin...

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Mar 17 2005, 01:38 PM)

under the #3 sparkplug (NO WHERE ELSE)

like under the threads or under as in like out or in (closer or further up the cylinder castings....i know i'm stupid

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 17 2005, 11:58 AM)

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Mar 17 2005, 01:38 PM) under the #3 sparkplug (NO WHERE ELSE) like under the threads or under as in horizontal plane....i know i'm stupid

Some thermocouples are a ring shape for this purpose. You install it like an extra washer on the spark plug.

Andrew

QUOTE (phantom914 @ Mar 17 2005, 02:01 PM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 17 2005, 11:58 AM) QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Mar 17 2005, 01:38 PM) under the #3 sparkplug (NO WHERE ELSE) like under the threads or under as in horizontal plane....i know i'm stupid Some thermocouples are a ring shape for this purpose. You install it like an extra washer on the spark plug. Andrew

cool....thanks...i was just uninformed.

thats a good one. By liek .00000001L

So how then without going to a DTM setup would one lower their head temps? Where abouts can one find a good pair of gauges to measure their heads' temperatures?

The worst part, is that I have a pair of perfect 1.7 heads with a three angle valve job sitting in my storage locker in Los Angeles... along with another set of NPR 96's, my front and rear valences, new rocker panels, loads of tools...

"Honey, I'm just going out to get a couple of things for the car, back in a week or two!"

Dave, the valve just barely touched the piston (or is that the other way around?), just enough to take the carbon off, but no visible damage.

Joe, thanks for the offer. I'll make a couple of calls locally first, and see what the go is here regarding a repair.

I may just leave the engine out for the time being, and start gathering the parts for the 78x96 rebuild.

Any good sources for the thermocouplers and guage for CHT? Sounds like an easy and very important install.

I just ordered 3 dozen CHT gauges and etc from www.westach.com they are the instruments that I recommend and run on my dyno and in the test car and my other personal cars..

I will have them cataloged in a couple of weeks. I have single and dual gauges on the way aws well as combo gauges with dual CHT, oil temp and pressure in the same 3" gauge

QUOTE (Always Looking @ Mar 17 2005, 02:35 PM)

Any good sources for the thermocouplers and guage for CHT? Sounds like an easy and very important install.

The VDO gauge and sender can be had from several Bug places. cip1.com and aircooled.net are two such places online. Westach also has gauges and senders, and you can get single, dual, and even quad gauges from them.

All The Usual Suspects also carry the VDO parts. I know we do; I got mine from "us" a while ago.

Still need to hook it up correctly, though.

--DD

I like the idea of replacing the radio with gauges. Jake, will (are) you stocking some that will fit there? Thinking of cht, oil p. and oil temp.

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Mar 17 2005, 11:23 AM)

Ummn, The "Red Zone" is OIL TEMP! Its TOTALLY unrelated the HEAD TEMP.... You can easily have baked heads with cool oil. Porsche and VW BOTH need their asses kicked for not monitoring head temps in these cars from the factory.... Head temps are load related directly and heavily impacted by tuning. Running around in 5th gear at 2800RPM will keep your oil cool as a cucumber and fry your heads due to increased load and lack of cooling fan pressure. Buy a CHT gauge. Oil temp is slow to respond to changes, hardly impacted by tuning and a poor observation method of looking at the entire engine. Head temps are severely impacted by low speeds and lugging... If the heads get too hot drop a gear and wind the engine up and WATCH them drop 100 degrees in 30 seconds.

Jakes right. My dad back in the Seventies use to tell me to never lug a type 4 and to make sure RPMS were between 3000 and 4500 whenever possible. It was good advice I had a 1.7 with 166,000 miles that had never had the heads off and it was still running strong when I sold it. I had a 2.0 with over 120,000 with no head or valve problems, I now have an original 1.8 with 56K that hasnt been opened since it came from the factory in 1974. Only problem I have had with the 1.8 is a head gasket going bad. These are tough engines if you make sure the heads dont overheat and never, never mis shift.

Volkswagen busses are infamous for frying heads because people always lug those engines and they weigh a ton more than the 914.