Some of you must know about old MBZ diesels. I am looking for one as a commuter/nice classy ride. I reacently looked at a 73 300D that was nice, but needed too much work for the price. Is there any years to look for? Stay away from? Things to take note of?

Anyone know what kind of milage to expect form a 4.5L 70s 6cyl reagular gas engine? Just for the hell of it as I have one that I want, but it will probably get crappy milage and that I cannot afford.

Thanks

A porsche isnt classy enough?

Oh no... must resist... doctor jokes.....

I would look into a mid 80's BM diesel truck or Blazer or Suburban. I had a 85 K5 Blazer that got 22MPG and would climb trees. You had mentioned you needed a tow vehicle, that to me would be the ideal choice.

Here is the MBZ forum.

http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/foru...splay.php3?f=15

Forum good, me like, thanks. Still want personal oppinions, though. If not too much trouble.

My dad has 2 1987 diesel mercedes.. mercedeses? One is a manual and one is auto. The manual one you can get to move if you have to. The auto one is like driving a turd. If you must get one make sure it's manual. You'll get better mileage too. I think he gets about 35 mpg. He used to have a late 70s one. It went through glow plugs aand starters fast, and he went through 4 or 5 engines. I'm pretty sure he only got about 27 mpg with that one too (they's heavy cars). The 87 one has been MUCH more reliable and always starts on chilly mornings without being plugged in.

You definitely want a turbo diesel. During the 70s and 80s M/B put the 5-cyl. turbo diesel in the big S-class body. It was only offered in North America and sold like gang busters. They are a little slow off the line but fantastic on the open road, super comfortable and amazingly economical. They are also indestructible.

M/B built a few 300D turbo diesels. Those were the mid-sized body. The coolest one is the wagon but it is very rare.

The older M/B 4-cyl. diesels are all non turbo and really slow (but get great MPG). The 5-cyl. non turbos are faster but still a lot slower than the turbos and not much more economical.

There's a taxi company in AZ that has been buying a lot of the S-class turbos for their fleet, which is 100% M/B diesel. The reason is longevity and low operating costs, although things like A/C systems can fail after all these years and are expensive to replace.

You need to do your homework on anything after around mid 80s. I remember reading that M/B had one or two bad years where they were experimenting with particulate traps. Those engines are problematic.

The brand new E320CDI has the common rail technology. The common rail diesels are truly amazing... no smoke, smell and very little noise. They are powerful and economical and in my opinion a much better high efficiency solution than gas / electric hybrids.

At the Geneva show M/B showed their new V6-D in an SL of all things. This engine will replace their inline-6 and go head to head with BMW diesels, which are currently best in the world.

The V6-D in the SL (I think it was just a concept car) had three turbos... two side mounted small ones to reduce lag and emissions and a giant one on top for max power.

In 2006 the US will have low sulfur diesel fuel which will reduce the soot in diesel exhaust.

Pete (diesel fan)

Hi Evil
Had a 85 300D
I would realy sugest finding a 90s 300D
These are real MB, real car, geat bang for the buck
Cheers
Joe

There is a really nice vintage mercedes (early 70's) parked at the local park-n-sell for $950, they say it runs well. I would have bought it myself, but I don't have the car space right now.

HIEDI

I will never buy another Mercedes newer than 1990. About then they started building many different models and their quality control went to hell in a handcart. I just hope Porsche isn't headed in the same direction.
Cheers, Elliot

My mom had a mid 80's 300D turbo, it was a great car. Super comfy ride never any problems. Dad had a earlier just plain diesel, it was gutless as hell but again no problems with it at all.

Two co-workers of mine had the 70s-vintage non-turbo four-cylinder diesel Benzes. (240D, I think?) The one didn't last for six months. Either excessive blowby (low compression in a diesel is really bad!) or a for-real cracked cylinder, I forget which. He donated it rather than fix it. The other co-worker had a similar problem, but found a used engine eventually. You almost can't rebuild that vintage of MB diesel--something about the cylinder walls being too thin to bore out reliably?? I forget. But they are evidently a bitch to rebuild.

Manual transmissions appear to be very uncommon in those cars. The first guy's car would sort of accelerate--after a while, if you kept your foot in it and didn't upshift. (He had a manual, it was the only one he saw in three months' search.) He got about 25 MPG out of it. He figured he could get into the 30s if he didn't want to keep up with traffic on Hwy 280 (usually runs 75+).

I wouldn't touch one of those cars with a stick....

--DD

I have a 85 300TD wagon (49 state) for 2 years and it's a great car. Last of the big W123 70s -80s rounded body cars. No autocrossin it but it will move pretty good when you put you foot in it and I have yet to reset the boost to stock levels. Some sort of altitude compensator spring gets weak and doesn't give full boost until you crank the adjusting screw. I'm in the process of converting it to run on waste vegatable oil.

Newer the better for the w123 models as they continued to make improvements.

John

My next door neighbor had two MBZ diesel sedans until recently, both 300s. The older one just expired with 450K on the clock (engine never rebuilt!). The newer one has over 300K on it, and is still in daily use as his go-to-work car. Late 70s, early 80s cars, I believe. They seem to just go and go and go. Neither is a turbo.

If I could tolerate the barge-like handling, I'm sure they'd be excellent daily cars, esp. if you have a long freeway drive. Long-distance, they'd probably be perfect. However, even my Type 3 handles better than they do, though. Mercedes builds them like tanks and puts hugely overboosted brakes on them. I briefly had a late 70s 350SL (Euro version), and I was constantly locking the tires braking on the freeway, as the brakes were sooo sensitive and even with stock sized tires it didn't have enough rubber for 4500lbs. It handled like crap, and this was supposed to be the "sporty" car!

Dr. Evil:
I own and drive a 1980 240D 4-speed (123 series) but I have driven some of the 300Ds and TDs (station wagon, NOT necessarily turbodiesel) as well. They are great as long as you're not in a hurry to get anywhwere. I really like the simplicity of the 240D: Manual window cranks, manual trans, no turbo. Less to go wrong.

Good:
Gets about 30 mpg if you don't have a lead foot.
Soooo comfortable to drive.
Well-engineered and easy to work on.
Millions made, so junkyard spares are everywhere.

Not so good:
0-60 in about 20 seconds.
Top speed of about 80 mph. Happiest cruising at about 60-65.
Noisy!
New replacement parts are expensive.
The price of diesel here is about $.35/gal more than premium.

I rebuilt my motor about 3yrs ago after the original broke a ring and scored the cylinder. That was after about 340K miles. It just needed new cyl. sleeves and pistons/rings but I ended up doing some overall "freshening up." Bottom end was almost perfect.

DD-It's true you can't bore out the cylinders much (1st oversize is all) but they can be re-sleeved like mine. They are dry sleeves, with an interference fit, then honed to size and decked. Block and head are super heavy-duty. Machinist said it was the hardest block he had ever decked. Heads are cast chromoly.

The 300-series are more powerful (5-cylinders) and have a taller r/p ratio so they can cruise at a higher speed, but you get a bit worse mileage. The nice thing about the turbo models is you don't really need to use the turbo all that much, but when you need the extra acceleration, it is there. Not so with the N/A. Personally, I love the manual trans. The auto trannies were never geared right for the turbo cars. Unfortunately, almost all the 300s were imported with autos.

The 4.5 liter MB was a V8. You can expect V8 mileage: 15 mpg or so.

Evil,
I bought a 93 300D, some would argue that 93 was the last year that Mercedes made a Mercedes without cost considerations.

It was a great car, the 2.5 L 5 cylinder with a turbo was quite drivable and very comfortable on the highway. The big ticket items likely to need replacement on these cars are the injection pump and the timing chain.

The car weight around 4000 lbs and got close to 30 MPG. If you have an option go with the turbo the non-turbos are just plain slow.

QUOTE (flyloki @ Mar 22 2005, 10:58 AM)

I have a 85 300TD wagon (49 state) for 2 years and it's a great car. Last of the big W123 70s -80s rounded body cars. I'm in the process of converting it to run on waste vegatable oil. John

Nice! Going to burn BioDiesel or straight WVO?

My Dad has an 82 300TD ... bought the car with ~110K on the clock and now has almost ~350K, never touched the engine. It will get up and go if you keep your foot in it, likes to cruiz around 80, handles like a boat though. I think it gets ~25mpg the way he drives it. It goes through brakes, batteries, and alternators quite often, and the tranny is finally starting to go (auto) so thats why he is looking to replace it. He also had some issues with the power windows and locks (vacuum system), and the A/C has gone out a couple of times.

He loves the car, but not really a "cheap" car to maintain, but it is a great cruizer, and dead nuts reliable engine, and its a Mercedes, not a honda. I have heard that the 1985 300TD is the best one made, but somewhat rare. I have my dad looking at 5 series BMW's for his replacement...good luck.

Tony

With all this talk of Merdedes handling like a bowl of jello, I think it's time to post this:

The one for sale here looks like the one listed on e-bay, its a 1970.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...sspagename=WDVW

From both my personal experience and the advice of my friend who owns a MB boneyard, you would be wise to avoid the NA 300D cars. They have a nasty habit of putting rods through the block. The turbo cars don't share this problem. When the turbos are maintained and working well, they're fast enough and are nice on the highway. Not as nice as my wife's A6, but nice enough. I'd look for a 300D turbo. Smaller car, minus some of the complications of the SD. The auto trans is the same as the gas car, more or less, and MB used a really complicates set of vacuum switches and valves to simulate the inputs from a gasoline engine in the D cars. This system can be a problem. The door locks and dash vents are vacuum operated, and are trouble prone. Look for a mid-late 80s car, 'cause the climate control in the 70s (and maybe early 80s) cars is Mopar, and would be cr*p if it were better. The Cap'n

Thanks for all of the info. What I am looking for is a car that is unique and gets good fuel economy. It can drive like a geo for all I care, I just want it not to suck at the pump and to be something interesteing.

In my hood diesel Benzes go for $1000-1500. Can't beat that.

QUOTE (Dr Evil @ Mar 22 2005, 10:50 PM)

Thanks for all of the info. What I am looking for is a car that is unique and gets good fuel economy. It can drive like a geo for all I care, I just want it not to suck at the pump and to be something interesteing.

Sounds like you need a 914

I got one. I need a car that will run and is built like a tank.

I had a 82 300D - 5 cyl turbo. I put well over 300,000 miles on it with no major repairs. I liked the car. Gave it to a friend for his teenage son. Perfect for that. I still have an 87 300SDL - 6 cyl turbo. a much better car. the 6 has more power, is smoother and quieter. It has 320,000 on it. great car for interstate cruising. the S's are great.

look for AC, transmission, cruise control, heat & A/C controller

Look for a mint mid 80's and be willing to pay extra for a time machine.

I have owned 5. Great cars.

Get a turbo.

300D and 300TD wagon use the same engine as heavier
300SD. It's bullet proof.

Bill

Dr.

My first Benz was a 240D. My second was a 300TD. I installed an extra fuel tank in both cars and their range was fantastic. Change the oil and they will run forever!

I have w124s, the are GREAT cars. Here is another w126 forum I hear the w126 diesels are great cars too.