Mustang outsold the 911 in Germany last month, 780 Mustangs to 752 911's. Seriously. http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/08/autos/ford...-sales-germany/

Well, at half the price that probably does make sense, but still, Mustang?

Have you had the opportunity to go to Germany? Thing is, its full of German cars. What better way to stand out then to have some good old American muscle in the cobblestone streets of Dussel-David-Hoffenstrassa.

However, when you're paying for the petrol by the liter, it really doesn't equate.

Half the price? US$50,000? That's a whole lot of liters of petrol and I don't think Porsches are THAT good with mileage, or Mustangs that bad. And given the number of Harleys over there I doubt that's their main issue.

You know thinking about this after I posted, I haven't been in a Mustang in probably 30 years. They may have changed for the better, I don't know. I do know that in that time Porsche's have put on a whole lot of weight, so maybe those Germans are onto something.

I hate to say it, but new mustangs are actually that good. My buddy just picked up a new gt350, and I don't think I've ever had more redneck fun in a car.. ever..

With the improvements in handling, power, build quality, and the HUGE cost difference the mustang might simply be more attractive to German buyers looking for go fast. Don't forget what might be perceived as the 'cool' factor. Daring to be different?

Germans in general are quite proud of all things German. That still holds true for the older generation, but I think the younger crowd varies much more.

The roads are still dominated by Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, etc... But I do recall seeing a few 'stangs flying by me on the Autobahn last September when I was there.

Ford also does quite well in Germany (Europe in general I'm sure) with their sub compact cars.

Price plus VAT is huge in Germany almost doubling the price. A Mustang, even a GT, is a real bargain for those with the need for speed. There is also a segment really into muscle cars. Makes perfect sense to me.

I drove in Germany for a week last Sep and could count the Porsches I saw, other than at the factory on both hands.

Ford has always been big in Germany, that is nothing new.

They have even made models that were specifically marketed for Germany as early as the '40s.
I fondly remember my late '70s Ford Taunus (named after the area where i grew up!)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Taunus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Taunus_TC

Also very popular in Germany in the '70s, the Ford Granada:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Granada_%28Europe%29

The new Mustang, in 5.0L, V6 or turbo-4 form is LEGIT. It's one hell of a car.

And, contrary to the 991 being all electrically-assisted, the Mustang is still a driver's car. Maybe the Germans still like to shift their own gears and actually feel the the road beneath them. The Mustang has electric power steering as well, but not as dampened as the 991. Then there's the price.

I saw this article and my biggest concern was that they were calling the Mustang a "sports car."

It's cute, yes, and it does have some compelling models in its lineup, but sports car? No.

OK, sports coupe car. That more correct?

Sure.

Look at the cost of each, and what each can do, and re-ask the question. IMO 911;s are so far away from the simple, well engineered, lightweight cars I once loved, they are off my radar. Read much about the 4 cam, flat crank engine in the Mustang?

Why not? Because it has back seats? So does the 911. And in either one of them, they're essentially useless to most adults.

What qualifies a car as a sportscar? To tomrev's point, does the 911 really count as a sportscar now? I'd lean far more towards luxury or luxury-tourer than a sportscar. And when Porsche finally does do away with the manual in favor of the PDK on all cars, I'd even consider the Mustang more of a sportscar.

The lines between sportscar, sports-coupes, tourers, luxury-tourers have definitely gotten blurred the last few years. There's so many gadgets and luxury options on even the basic cars, it's hard for me to tell what is what.

Rob's opinion.

Uh oh Porsche, that may just be what those German buyers are thinking, too.

Low cost and hey, in Deutschland Yankees are exotic. Oooooohhhhh.

Why do you think SirAndy moved here?!?

Yep...I wouldn't call the Mustang a redneck car anymore.

Recent reviews by Road & Track, Car & Driver, etc. show the new Mustang is an awesome machine.

Ha ha, yeah I'm trolling him too but it's hard to get a rise out of the guy. He's probably just laughing at us.

A few years ago I came over a rise on Route 163 in southern Utah and there's a girl standing in the road taking a picture. Saw them again later in the day and talked to the driver. They were here on vacation from Germany and he wanted a picture of himself in a Mustang with Monument Valley in the background because those are two things that symbolize America.

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I'm late to the party here, but wasn't the 911 actually a GT touring car by design, not a sports car? But then again as previously mentioned, what is a sports car?

As for why the Mustang sells in Germany? Potentially for the same reason many people turned to Euro cars in the 60s, 70s, and 80s - to be different from the rest of the crowd.

Also agree the 997 and 991 have become big, highly complex cars that will require more expensive maintenance than our earlier air-cooled cars - technology is not lowering the cost of maintenance, I believe it has increased the maintenance intervals, but not the costs... Oh well, I digress...

most Germans (like Americans) can't afford a 911. The mustang is a lot of car for less than half the money.

Shouldn't have to point out to the 914 guys that money talks, bs walks.

We have a few guys here on the board who you can hand the keys to anything to them, and they'll be fast. Larry Sharp, Steve Nieslony, Britain Smith... Ask them to drive a mustang and they'll be fast too. But then, ask them how it felt to drive it. A sports car puts the driver in touch with the road. Mustangs are iconic and I get why Germans would like that, but they aren't sports cars.

In my view, its the basic value equation. Little $ for lots of fun.

So.... what's a sports car? Educate me.

Is the techno-bloated 911 a sports car then? I would Much rather buy a Toybaru. And if really spending more money for real, and though I am a Ford guy, it might well be a Vette, which surprisingly hasn't come up. I have 914s cause IMHO they are sports cars. But I drive slow.

The last 911 I would own was made in 1989 so...

So that kind of begs the question, are post-1989 911's still "sports cars"? And if you say yes then what IS actually a "sports car"? Care to risk a definition? Something reasonably quantifiable?

"Still sports cars". Negative.

Noooooo.... But my 1980 is plagued by the same greed. I am not sure when they lost it. But it is sheer poison to make the most profitable car in the world. I really like my TR6, but it is too smooth a ride, although it certainly is a sports car. I would say it is more about the road than about competition though. The 914 got me and held on like cocaine...well, no now that you ask I haven't tried but I teach pharmacology and it came to mind. Say nicotine? Point being that the 914 is like being the road. I have to try more rides, but I haven't found an equal yet. Maybe a new mustang!

That's condescending, sure, but what does it mean? Nitwit yahoos do foolish things with all kinds of cars, but that doesn't mean anything more than the car happened to be in the hands of an idiot that day. If I googled a photo of a Porsche embarrassingly backwards in granny's garden would that be proof that Porsches aren't real "sports" cars? Of course not, it wouldn't mean much at all.

Now I'm intrigued. So what is it, exactly, that makes a car a "sports" car? If that guy can lap his minivan faster than your Porsche does that mean his is and yours isn't? Probably not, but then what is it? Is it purely subjective? "I think it is, therefore it is"? That seems as illogical as a blooper Mustang photo, but is that it? All in your mind? It used to be that we had either big soft sedans or hard little two-seaters, nothing in between, but maybe that entire concept is passe.

I guess in the end it doesn't much matter either way, just meanings of words that change over time. Interesting maybe, but not important.

The wife drove a 95 Mustang when we got married. What a POS. Seriously. Water in oil at 39K at 4 years old. Same motor as the Winstar minivan. Not sure it was a "sports car"...

I personally thought that even with a bigger motor, it was a heavy front loaded car, with marginal feedback, and poor visibility.

I like the looks of the modern Mustang, but would have a hard time driving one because I hate the seating position, and am still suspect of the overall configuration.

Power, yes. Feedback, maybe.

I like Mustangs.. maybe not a sports car, but.. I still like them.

My first car was a 65 Mustang.. long story..

But now days anytime I rent a car on vacation or whatever, I always get a Mustang convertible.

New Mustang interior option. So you're ready for that inevitable "oh shit" moment!

Not a Ford guy............. In fact I've never owned one (never will), but the newest Generation of the Mustang is dialed in. NOT comparable to a 911, but a solid well rounded sports oriented car. The Cobra and GT 500's are particularly impressive. Go drive one, you will be very surprised.

The old days of mustangs with minivan V6 or even a NA 4 cyl are gone (for now). I remember (1988) when my mom came to visit and pulled in my driveway all proud of her new Mustang convertible...... I popped the hood and it had a 4cyl...... same motor as a Pinto I bet. It drove like one too. Good Lord what a terrible car.......

One of the favorite things my dad and brothers and I do is go test drive cars. About once a year my dad and I go all vip (joke) and schedule a whole day of test drives specifically to drive all the American Pony Cars. Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, all to compare to my 97 M3. We also throw in a Bonus car or two depending on the mood unless the beer is calling.

I'd LOVE to put an American Pony Car in my garage (If I do it will be a Challenger/Cuda) to replace the M3 as a new practical daily driver with AC & the works, but not yet at least, especially when the 3 is long paid for and is in mint condition. But in the end, 911 VS Mustang other than a drag strip is no comparison.

I think its great to see the Mustang on the Streets of Europe.

The definition of a sports car seems to be ever evolving. For many people, the last true sports cars are those from the 1950's...no wind up windows, no creature comforts, nothing that detracts from the tasks of driving in a sporty manner.

My 1957 MGA meets those criteria.

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Interior...no door handles, no windows, no radio, no a/c....pure fun

Click to view attachment

Sports cars should be focused on driving dynamics and not on passenger & luggage space. The driving dynamics will vary depending on what it was designed for. Example: drag racing vs. road racing. That's my attempt at a definition.

And you have the best A color combo; black, with red interior!