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db9146
I'm looking for information on dropping a 3.0 SC CIS-injected engine into a 914.

What's needed for the wiring? Other parts required? Impressions?

What did you use for heat exchangers? Did you have to add an external oil cooler? Front mounted cooler or fan-cooled mounted elsewhere?

Thanks.
JmuRiz
Fitting the fuel distributor will be an issue. You'll need th rotate it 90-deg at a minimum, maybe mount the engine a bit lower too. Worst case you'll need a custom intake work (search others that have done it)

Wiring - Perry Kiehl makes a conversion harness (I believe)

Heat exchangers work w/o issue.

External cooler is recommended, front mount is best, but if mostly street driven an under rear trunk setup with thermostatically controlled fans will work.
PanelBilly
What's needed ? Lots of $$$$
VegasRacer
What do you get ? Lots of biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
Cairo94507
Had a 3.0 CIS in my last Six. Ran great- no issues at all. I did add two small VW oil coolers (no fans) where the fog lights come stock. Ran it all with stainless steel hose and a turbo thermostat. That car never got hot always ran between 180-190. Plenty of power and no fuel smell or constantly messing with the webers that occupied the engine bay prior to the 3.0. I also ran the factory heat exchanger and the stock Six muffler slightly modified to resemble the GT muffler. Car sounded killer.
Dtjaden
I have a slowly developing project to put a 2.7 CIS engine in my 914/4. Assuming this is going into your 914-6 you will also need a an adapted flywheel. Your existing 914-6 has a 6 bolt crankshaft and the 3.0 has a 9 bolt crankshaft. Patrick has an appropriate flywheel available.

As far as an adapter wiring harness is concerned there is very little that needs to be added/changed. The CIS system is really not an electronic system which makes the adaptation simpler.

In my 914/4 I am currently using Megasquirt FI and that will be my backup plan if I have problems with CIS.

Darryl
colingreene
why not just call KEP and have them make it rather than deal with patrick and the associated prices?
Im not sure i would keep the CIS though.
porschetub
QUOTE(colingreene @ Apr 16 2016, 04:51 PM) *

why not just call KEP and have them make it rather than deal with patrick and the associated prices?
Im not sure i would keep the CIS though.


agree.gif
mepstein
QUOTE(porschetub @ Apr 16 2016, 06:04 AM) *

QUOTE(colingreene @ Apr 16 2016, 04:51 PM) *

why not just call KEP and have them make it rather than deal with patrick and the associated prices?
Im not sure i would keep the CIS though.


agree.gif

agree.gif PMS buys the clutch and pp from kep then marks it up for sale. Just buy it from kep direct.
mb911
That sounds like a fun project.. I know when I did my 2.7 conversion I ditched the cis for carbs but had I known then what I know now I would have just rotated the fuel injection 180 degrees.
0396
QUOTE(db9146 @ Apr 15 2016, 06:19 PM) *

I'm looking for information on dropping a 3.0 SC CIS-injected engine into a 914.

What's needed for the wiring? Other parts required? Impressions?

What did you use for heat exchangers? Did you have to add an external oil cooler? Front mounted cooler or fan-cooled mounted elsewhere?

Thanks.


Congrats with your new adventure. With the 3.0 it will bring a big smile to your face. Since the 3.0 is out, I hope you get to install 964 cams in it for the little extra ponies.
Dtjaden
On my 2.7 rebuild I plan to use a 964 cam grind and JE 9.5 cr pistons. The combo with CIS should be good for about 200 hp. Once I get going with the project, at least a couple of months, I'll start a thread on it.
Jeffs9146
No cutting required. I made a custom intake using an early Volvo 242 intake base and fabricated an intake elbow. Wiring was not complex you just need to focus. We removed the fuse panel. Added a fuel pump relay and a tach wire from the back. I put the computer under the passenger seat and added a sensor bung on 1 58" headers.
patssle
I tore the CIS off and put on Webers for my 3.0 /6 conversion. It sounds better, looks better, performs better, easier to work on, and makes the conversion itself a lot easier with fewer electronics and sensors. But your MPG goes down and fuel smell is indeed an issue. I don't care about MPG but sometimes the fuel smell is annoying. Regrets? None.

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Jeffs9146
More photos
db9146
I have been reading up on oil coolers, the need for them and where they can be successfully placed. It seems that a rule of thumb that has been thrown out is that anything larger than a 2.7 running FI needs an external cooler. Obviously, I won't do anything that can't be bolted into the car and then removed but weighing the options is difficult.

OPTION 1 - Its a given - I have my carbs rebuilt (they need to be rebushed). Once I do this, I could simply put them back on the stock 2.0 and drive it.

OPTION 2 - Or, I could pull and pickle the entire engine and carbs, and spend the money to have the carbs rebuilt towards a complete FI engine. I've found a 2.7 CIS, a 3.0 CIS and a 3.2Motornic all for about the same money going in.....but then there is the whole oil cooler issue.

OPTION 3 - Have the carbs rebuilt but set-up for a larger, say 2.4 carbed engine (again, found one of these for about the same money as in option 2 but its rebuilt). This approach would be more $s overall because I'd be rebuilding the carbs and buying a motor but there would be no need for an external oil cooler and it would suit the character of the car better than turning it into a monster.

Thoughts?


Any recommendations on where to have the carbs rebuilt? Because of the shaft play, they need to be rebushed so its not something I'm ready to try.
mepstein
You won't know for sure about the external oil cooler ( no matter what the engine size) until you run your car. Some engines rune hotter than others and where and how you drive matter. Your in GA, not ME, count on a cooler no matter what. I would buy the engine for the engine, not to save money on an oil cooler.
0396
Based on my small brain, anything over a 2.7 should get an oil cooler....unless you happen to live in Alaska. As for the carbs, Paul Abbott in N Cal can rebuild the webbers for approximately $2700 - $3000, especially if the shafts need work.
I would dump a 3.2 and drive away with a Big Smile.
patssle
I put my oil cooler under the trunk with a fan - it works great. Before my engine temps were going to 240 and possibly higher but I stopped driving. Now they never touch 210.

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db9146
" I would buy the engine for the engine, not to save money on an oil cooler."

Its obviously not the cost of the oil cooler but getting one to work without having to cut the car for the engine or the cooler.
Justinp71
QUOTE(patssle @ Apr 16 2016, 09:40 AM) *

I tore the CIS off and put on Webers for my 3.0 /6 conversion. It sounds better, looks better, performs better, easier to work on, and makes the conversion itself a lot easier with fewer electronics and sensors. But your MPG goes down and fuel smell is indeed an issue. I don't care about MPG but sometimes the fuel smell is annoying. Regrets? None.

Click to view attachment



agree.gif

Not everyone does, but I loved my car with the 3.0 and webbers. Fuel smell is bad on cold start and I was able to lean the idle so its not too bad there. Also leave the top on until after you back out of the driveway helps. Freeway mileage on mine was around 20, 23 at best.

I admit CIS is a reliable system if it all works right. But man with webbers, 964+ cams and headers a 3.0 914 is a screamer. I actually lapped a 81 CIS 911 at thunderhill in about 10 mins on the track.
Justinp71
As for the oil cooler, if you are going to track it you will need real good cooling. The factory GT style setrab cooler mounted up front along with the engine mounted one kept me around 180-190f on the street even on the hot 100f days in sac. On the track I'd get up to 240f in a 20 min drive session.
mepstein
QUOTE(db9146 @ Apr 22 2016, 07:49 PM) *

" I would buy the engine for the engine, not to save money on an oil cooler."

Its obviously not the cost of the oil cooler but getting one to work without having to cut the car for the engine or the cooler.

I'm wondering what cutting up your talking about. I just put a front cooler in my car. The only cutting was one inch holes run up the longs under the sill. I used the stock holes on the front trunk. The whole system cost around $1k. $500 for the setrab cooler with fanpack and 500 for 30 feet of braided line and AN fittings throughout.
Jeffs9146
I kept my motor almost stock and in California I have never had mine heat up enough to need an external cooler. I have even driven 1500 miles with no problems.

I don't know about Atlanta though.
gandalf_025
Wife's car has a 3.0 with CIS.. Never had an issue with the way it runs.
High compression JE's and slightly more cam..
Engine was built to pass California Emissions, which it did.
Car came back here to have a 3.6 put in and I bought it.

Good Donor motor............

Click to view attachment

dflesburg
my advice, buy the best car you can and drive it for a few years, all the while saving the money you would spend on fixing it up, say $300 a month... after four or five years sell the first car, buy a better car with the money plus the savings, then drive that car, rinse and repeat.

You will never make money fixing up a car and then selling it...

You can always buy a car someone else did for less than they have in it.
dflesburg
$300 a month for 30 years is $108,000

all the while you would be driving your car instead of laying under it learning to weld, fab, paint, fix and repair, etc....

(you asked for advice... )
maddin
QUOTE(db9146 @ Apr 16 2016, 11:19 AM) *

I'm looking for information on dropping a 3.0 SC CIS-injected engine into a 914.

What's needed for the wiring? Other parts required? Impressions?

What did you use for heat exchangers? Did you have to add an external oil cooler? Front mounted cooler or fan-cooled mounted elsewhere?

Thanks.


I'm in the process of putting a 3.0l in my car. I bought a car (roller in very good condition) from one of the members here that had a 6 in it before so all the conversion parts came with it (oil tank,tins,gauges etc) Still needed shiploads of small parts (which cost a fortune in postage)
Bought a 78' 3.0l CIS engine local for a good price ( had been out of the car for a few years,untested,condition unknown).

Will need external oil cooler because of the high temps in summer here in Australia.
Got about a third of the parts I need for a 5 lug conversion,not including the wheels.
Not planning on heat exchangers but will need some sort of demist for rego.
Finally decided to get the engine rebuild properly,dumping the CIS and getting an ECU instead,hoping to get the car on the road by the end of the year.
Everything seemed to be pretty straight forward but it took much longer than I anticipated and I don't even want to talk about the costs.

Don't know how much you can do yourself but I have limited skills and neither the proper space nor all the tools you need for a job like that so I have to tow the car to places (which costs more money if you don't own a trailer) and rely on help from friends or pay professionals.
Regrets? No!...been a steep learning curve though.
If I'd be in the same situation I was 18 months earlier (before I bought the car)
I'd prepare myself much better or buy a car that is on the road already!

Back then there were a few 6 conversions for sale in the low to mid 30's,ready to drive...I'm well past that already,and mine is nowhere near ready!
I had no idea what I was getting into.
Changed directions so many times,it all costs time and money BUT
I absolutely love the car and can't wait to drive it !
Good luck!


Jeffs9146
Here is the part number on the back of the intake.
Justinp71
...
Justinp71
3.2 W/pmo's... wub.gif

EdwardBlume
I'm kind of having the same issue. I want more than a 2.4 T, but don't want to cut the car....
Justinp71
QUOTE(RobW @ Apr 29 2016, 12:15 PM) *

I'm kind of having the same issue. I want more than a 2.4 T, but don't want to cut the car....


If your not going to track it I think an oil cooler below the rear trunk would work. Jeff also states his 3.0 didn't need an external oil cooler, I believe that as mine only needed it for the track.
RickS
Have a 3.0 and was talked into Webbers and selling the CIS. Also have an 82 SC with the same motor with CIS. The performance of each is not night and day even in the lighter 914. The mileage difference is noticeable and had to install an exhaust fan in the 914 berth which runs 24X7 to keep gas fumes out of the house. Webbers are sexy and have a great induction noise, but if I had it to do over again, I would have kept th CIS.

Throttle linkage had to be modified, tach had to be changed from mechanical to electronic. Have the real deal 914-6 HEs and added a front oil cooler which does its job.

You may also want to consider upgrading the brakes if you haven't already.
Jeffs9146
Here is a link to my 3.0L photos
Conversion Photos
GTSandberg
QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ May 2 2016, 06:20 PM) *

Here is a link to my 3.0L photos
Conversion Photos


Link does not work anymore. Very interested in seeing them! Creative solution!!
JmuRiz
As much as I like the 'cool factor' of carbs, I LOVED how easy it was to start the '74 911 with a 3.0 CIS installed. Easy start and no gas smell.
Naturally I didn't have the same emotional connection to it....I'm a glutton for punishment biggrin.gif

If I could get that out of the 914 and 356, without spending a combined $10k on EFI, I'd be a happy camper.
GregAmy
CIS was an excellent system, as long as you kept it clean. The hydromechanical aspect could make some peoples' heads spin, but it was a really efficient, simple, and effective system.

How many Rabbits, Sciroccos, Audis, Mercedes, Volvos, even Ferrari and Lotus had K-Jetronic?

But leave the gas cap off of a Rabbit and let fuel tank rust get into the system...you're toast. Exactly how my dad killed my '84 GTI.
mepstein
It also doesn’t like to sit unused all winter or for long periods.
sixnotfour
QUOTE(GTSandberg @ Aug 21 2019, 07:54 AM) *

QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ May 2 2016, 06:20 PM) *

Here is a link to my 3.0L photos
Conversion Photos


Link does not work anymore. Very interested in seeing them! Creative solution!!


2 years ago...
QUOTE
Jeff Tucker (jeffs9146) has passed away
GTSandberg
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Aug 21 2019, 06:26 PM) *

QUOTE(GTSandberg @ Aug 21 2019, 07:54 AM) *

QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ May 2 2016, 06:20 PM) *

Here is a link to my 3.0L photos
Conversion Photos


Link does not work anymore. Very interested in seeing them! Creative solution!!


2 years ago...
QUOTE
Jeff Tucker (jeffs9146) has passed away



That is very sad to hear! His knowledge and inspiration continues though..
EdwardBlume
QUOTE(GTSandberg @ Aug 21 2019, 06:54 AM) *

QUOTE(Jeffs9146 @ May 2 2016, 06:20 PM) *

Here is a link to my 3.0L photos
Conversion Photos


Link does not work anymore. Very interested in seeing them! Creative solution!!

Sadly Jeff is no longer with us. Do a search under his name and you’ll find pictures on this site.
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