Two years ago, coming in from camping over the labor day weekend, I was cited at a check point for an 'open container' violation.

Why? Because we were bringing in trash from our campsite and had empty bottles in six pack holders in the back of the car. The officer said I was lucky because he could ticket me for all the empty bottles, but he would just give me one.

I was not intoxicated while driving. I was simply cleaning up after myself.

Well I should have left the fucking trash at the sight like all the other rednecks.

Hagerty Insurance called me today to tell me that they can't cover me because 'open intoxicant' is a MAJOR violation. I asked if there were a DUI on my record. She said no. I desribed what happened and said 'wouldn't it stand to reason that I would have a DUI if I were drinking and driving?'. She said yes, but it made no difference.

I hate insurance companies. I guess I'll contact Grundy, but I won't be surprised to get the same from them.

that sucks......good luck !!!

you have been fucked by "The Man" ™

i hope it works out.... sue the city

oh man, that sucks big time. i'm really sorry you have to deal with that crap.


it's too easy for the government to fuck one's life over.

QUOTE (914RS @ Mar 30 2005, 03:42 PM)

...we were bringing in trash from our campsite and had empty bottles in six pack holders in the back of the car. The officer said I was lucky because he could ticket me for all the empty bottles...

but you told the judge that at trial and were found not guilty, right?

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 30 2005, 02:06 PM)

QUOTE (914RS @ Mar 30 2005, 03:42 PM) ...we were bringing in trash from our campsite and had empty bottles in six pack holders in the back of the car.  The officer said I was lucky because he could ticket me for all the empty bottles... but you told the judge that at trial and were found not guilty, right?

No.

Attempting to fight an alchohol related anything in NM is like trying to piss up a rope.

The law says 'open intoxicant contianer in the cabin' and, to the letter of the law, I was guilty.

Do you honestly expect officers, the courts or insurance companies to excercise any sort of judgment? That kind of consideration is reserved for rapists and murderers.

The pigs strike again.

Just talked to Grundy. No dice.

Called Geico and added it to my normal policy. Liability only.

QUOTE (914RS @ Mar 30 2005, 01:14 PM)

Do you honestly expect officers, the courts or insurance companies to excercise any sort of judgment? That kind of consideration is reserved for rapists and murderers.

You got screwed and it sucks. I worry about stuff like that sometimes. I hope you find an insurance Co. that gives you a decent deal.

QUOTE (914RS @ Mar 30 2005, 04:14 PM)

Do you honestly expect officers, the courts or insurance companies to excercise any sort of judgment?

maybe not, but i still think more and more it makes sense to fight them all; at least make them work for it...

i hesitate to think what could have happened the times i was taking cases of empties to the recycling center...

Seems to me the "open container" should have to "contain" some intoxicant to be a violation.
Does a minor carrying an empty beer bottle to recycle qualify for "minor in possession"? Crazy

We had a client bringing his scout troop back from a highway beautification roadside trash pickup. Admittedly, the guy is a PITA, but was actually cited for open container. He did go to court and won, but it just goes to show general stupidity on the part of that cop.

Alcohol laws are generally good, but some law enforcement people should get their heads out of their asses. 20/20 hindsight, but you should have fought that one out.

Can't you go back and petition the court to have it removed from your record?

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 30 2005, 02:18 PM)

i hesitate to think what could have happened the times i was taking cases of empties to the recycling center...

Holy Crap! I never thought about that!
That would be totaly f@*ked!

QUOTE

Can't you go back and petition the court to have it removed from your record?

Hey Howie,
Why does Mercury insurance claims not fulfill their promises? I've been waiting since Sept, 2003 for Mercury Claims to come throught with the Reinactment that they promised me back then, but still have not came through. Although I did everything that they had asked me to do, including adding an addendum to the police report, taking an interview with them, sending them pictures and video, ect. AND they still have not settled the claims against me!

Since 2003..... Does it really take that long?

In Wa. State the ins can only go back 3 years .State Patrol goes back 5years. I know that doesnt help you now, but I wondererd if your state has the same type of Laws.

QUOTE (Toast @ Mar 30 2005, 02:28 PM)

Hey Howie, Why does Mercury insurance claims not fulfill their promises? I've been waiting since Sept, 2003 for Mercury Claims to come throught with the Reinactment that they promised me back then, but still have not came through. Yet they still have not settled the claims against me! Since 2003..... Does it really take that long?

Talk to your agent! WTF is a reinactment?

Since I'm not, hard for me to get in the middle. But if you PM me with a claim # or policy #......

QUOTE (Toast @ Mar 30 2005, 03:28 PM)

Hey Howie, Why does Mercury insurance claims not fulfill their promises? I've been waiting since Sept, 2003 for Mercury Claims to come throught with the Reinactment that they promised me back then, but still have not came through. Although I did everything that they had asked me to do, including adding an addendum to the police report, taking an interview with them, sending them pictures and video, ect. AND they still have not settled the claims against me! Since 2003..... Does it really take that long?

I too have Mercury, filed a few claims:

my 1st Volvo totalled due to a fire, they paid more than I thought I'd get and even let me take parts off of it before it was sold to the wreckers

paid to have our 911 fixed ($17K)

plus nurmerous windshields, repaints due to vandals and a hit-n-run with our truck


the only complaint I have is that the 911 accident where the rear tire blew out and put us into the big rig was deemed Sherryls fault, i tried to fight it to keep it off her record, but no luck (she was not ticketed, the insurance company just felt that "someone" was at fault and it "had" to be the driver)

Sorry........spelled it wrong.

REENACTMENT:
--to act or perform again
--to repeat the actions of (an earlier event or incident)

I have had THREE claim reps. since this first happened, and none of them seem to know what the previous one had done.

Because no one was coherent at the scene, the police assumed that I was speeding and wrecklessly driving and made up some story, without ever questioning me after I became conscious.
So, they never new that a van had cut me off and spun me into oncomming traffic.
But, because of what the police report says, I have no case because I was "at fault".
Mercury said they would do a Reenactment (try to repeat the accident scene) to prove that I was not at fault.

Yea.........right..........

Ok, I will PM you with the Policy and Claim #.

Thanks. And sorry for ranting. This tread just reminded me of what a bunch of Aholes cops can sometimes be.

I don't know other state laws at all, but I take every ticket I get to court. There is always a chance, always. That alone is worth the time to go to court. I have had a judge laugh at me and drop a ticket just because he didn't want to be the one to pull my license. I have also had tickets dropped because they weren't signed and or dated, or filed too late ect. I have a shoe box full of tickets and only about half ever made it onto my record.

QUOTE (sixnotfour @ Mar 30 2005, 03:31 PM)

In Wa. State the ins can only go back 3 years .State Patrol goes back 5years.  I know that doesnt help you now, but I wondererd if your state has the same type of Laws.

California has a 2 year statue of limitations.
They claim against my insurance co. was filed in Sept. 2003. So they are ok.

They can, however still try to sue Me until Sept. 2005.

Root Works,
The funny thing is that no one was cited or ticketd for anything. Hummm...... A lawyer I spoke with said that that alone could be to my benifit.

QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Mar 30 2005, 04:50 PM)

I have a shoe box full of tickets

Maybe you shouldn't have so much fun?

QUOTE (Howard @ Mar 30 2005, 01:47 PM)

We had a client bringing his scout troop back from a highway beautification roadside trash pickup.  Admittedly, the guy is a PITA, but was actually cited for open container.  He did go to court and won, but it just goes to show general stupidity on the part of that cop. Alcohol laws are generally good, but some law enforcement people should get their heads out of their asses.  20/20 hindsight, but you should have fought that one out.

I was 19....my car wouldn't start so my Dad let me borrow his...he was a liquor wholesaler and had some samples in the back cargo area of a VW stationwagon....they were STAMPED SAMPLES not for sale and sealed with tax stamps....got pulled over for driving while long haired...similar to driving while black....

Anywhooo....dickwads saw the booze and ticketed me as minor in possesion, confiscated the stuff .....I fought it but I was found gulity and had a suspended fine....that damn ticket haunted me until I was 26.....seven years....and totally hosed me on my insurance....

OINK, OINK, OINK.

Joe,

just bide your time, eventually it will get off the record. My wife had an minor accident that got ME the Hagerty insurance "denied"! Even if I said she would not drive the car...

The insurance industry is crooked by design. To drive, you are REQUIRED BY LAW to buy it, and if you go to USE it, they make it more expensive, or make you go somewhere else.

My step-father didn't have a claim in 40 years, and had his car totaled by a guy with no insurance. He had his policy canceled as soon as the claim was settled. I can go on and on, but it's a racket...maybe I need to start an insurance company...Hmmmmm

I heard somewhere that there is a federal law that states they aren't allowed to drop you for an accident, and that it can't go up unless you have 3 at faults?

Probably too good to be true, but from what I remember reading was they pull it all the time because no one knows better.

NM goes back 5 years on majors...



Regarding cancellations, I lifted this from the NM Public Regulation Commission website:

QUOTE

• What are the reasons for which my policy can be cancelled? New Mexico law permits the policy to be cancelled for the following reasons: 1.Non-payment of premium. 2.The insurance was obtained through fraudulent misrepresentation. 3.You or anyone who customarily operates your vehicle has: a. Has had his or her driver's license suspended or revoked during the policy period. b. Becomes permanently disabled and does not produce a certificate from a physician testifying to such person's ability to operate a motor vehicle. c. Is or has been convicted during the thirty-six months immediately preceding the effective date of the policy or during the policy period of: 1. Criminal negligence, resulting in death, homicide or assault, arising out of the operation of a motor vehicle. 2. Operating a motor vehicle in an intoxicated condition or while under the influence of drugs. 3. Leaving the scene of an accident. 4. Making false statements in an application for a driver’s license. 5. Reckless driving. 4. The insurance company is placed in rehabilitation or receivership. 5. The insured vehicle which is rated as a private passenger auto is used regularly and frequently for commercial purposes. 6. The director of insurance determines that the continuation of the policy would place the insurer in violation of the laws of New Mexico or would jeopardize the solvency of the insurer. 7. Non-payment of premium.

I'm pretty sure these rules are more governed by each state instead of federally. I tried finding a list for Florida for comparison and came up with this convoluted mess of legal mumbo-jumbo...

QUOTE (Pnambic @ Mar 31 2005, 08:36 AM)

QUOTE New Mexico law permits the policy to be cancelled for the following reasons: 1.Non-payment of premium. ... 7. Non-payment of premium.

#7 is just in case you didn't start paying attention until after #1 ...
or it's the one they care most about - could go either way...

the thing is, tho, while the requirements for "cancellation" are quite rigid, most insurance policies are written on a 6-month basis. so twice a year, they can "decline to offer renewal" which is NOT the same as cancellation. as long as they're willing to risk covering you for the remainder of your 6-month policy term, they have much more leeway on reasons for not "offering" you a renewal. basically, whatever reasons they want...

Funny we are talking about this. Since I got out of the Tech industry (Thank God!) late last year, This is what I do for a living. I work for an insurance company and consrtuct business models for regions or states based on peoples IBS scores/Posum scores etc.

The insurance industry is bizzare, I hate it. I only have the insurance I legally have to. Auto insurance is the worst. You guys would be shocked what some people pay just to insure a friggen hunk of steel with wheels.

When trying to insure my Ferrari, I tried all the 'collector' companies that claim to insure the 'special' cars....Hagerty, all the other well known insurers.....I have been driving 30+ years with no accidents or tickets....

EVERY one of them denied to insure me when they found out I was actually going to drive the 308!!!! (seems they only insure - at a high premium - 'garage queens').

So I went to my local agent who insures my 'normal' cars....turns out the guy loves the 'F' cars, FULL coverage $80 month on the 308!

I use him for the 914 now, $38 month full coverage.....

As to open container laws, varies from state to state; Calif (where I spent my 13 years in law enforcement in the south bay) it used to be that the container had to be within reach of the driver. They later tightened up the law to just being in the interior....

I would fight any ticket for open container if it was obvious that the amount of containers and the circumstances surrounding the containers (i.e. in a large garbage bag with other campsite trash) indicated that actual consumption was long past.

If I had cited someone for open container under those circumstances it would have meant a long call from the Sgt and maybe a trip to the dept. Psychologist....

The quality and training of Law Enforcement has declined dramatically in the last decade.....

Mark, you make some good points. CA has changed the 'point count' on open container (adult) to a minor violation, like speeding or such. One point doesn't cause much of a ruffle in your rates, and you need to have 2 or more points here to have the threat of declination or non renewal.

An independent agent can make a difference. Knowing which company to use for each situation can often save you money and grief.

To every one here who thinks insurance companies are a bit wierd, you should deal with them every day.

It's a business. They want your business if they think they will make money on you. Kinda like restaurants, mechanics, and carpenters.

I strongly feel that insurance is a scam. But then again, it's a "Just In Case" service. Just in case the worst happens, they're supposed to cover your damages, protect you from lawsuits, be your liason and lawyer, and defend you.

However, in Kalifornyuh they just take your money and run. When I was hit by an elderly person (who wasn't looking where they were going), before getting a statement from me they straight-up called the other party's insurance company and got the story from them. I explained my disbelief and frustration that they would automatically side with the other person's insurance without defending me (as they're supposed to do). I cancelled and went with progressive. Fucking bastards.

I'm paying $450 a year for full coverage, with the stated value at $7,800. ( :grin: )

Progressive owns about 10mi of highway 271 by me. They used to be a rinky-dink operation, and I guess they have their crap together now. We thought they sucked, but maybe we should take another look...