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naro914
So we decided we're going to do a SCCA autocross on April 30 with Huey. Should be interesting since we're classed in XP class, which I gather is kind of an 'anything goes' class. Never done an autocross with these guys - only with PCA.

What's been funny over the past couple years as we've done some things with SCCA is to see how different they are than PCA...to the point that I feel like a rookie with everything because I ask a million questions: how to register, what info is needed, schedules, licensing (for TT and racing), etc. What I'm learning is SCCA is so big, its become exceptionally complicated for the newbie...

Most things are subtle difference, but classifications are the hardest. Huey (and Papa Smurf) run in GT2 class for Time Trials and Club Racing (I'm hoping to do my first SCCA Club Race in May with Papa Smurf), but I was told XP for autocross (and Ladies - L - catch-all class for Nadine)

So...XP and L it is. I'll post how we do after the event. Should be interesting...
Racer
I would think "XP" and "XPL", no? Course, I would think she could drive in the "mens" class and not put up with that sexist crap.

Good luck!
naro914
They have just an L class for all ladies if they want to run in it...only 4 ladies total!

She could run XP if she wanted, but figured she'd run with the ladies this time...

I joked if she'd actually know how to drive.. Until yesterday, she actually hadn't driven ANY car for a couple months!!! She works from home and when we go out anywhere, I drive...
Randal
QUOTE(naro914 @ Apr 20 2016, 03:13 PM) *

They have just an L class for all ladies if they want to run in it...only 4 ladies total!

She could run XP if she wanted, but figured she'd run with the ladies this time...

I joked if she'd actually know how to drive.. Until yesterday, she actually hadn't driven ANY car for a couple months!!! She works from home and when we go out anywhere, I drive...


XP is a tough class for 914's as you can't be competitive on a national basis with a built (Porsche) 4 or 6 on slicks. I've always thought the trick, following SCCA rules, would be to build a small turbo 6 with about 300+hp. I say small as SCCA penalizes cc's, so smaller is better.

It's not hard to get 300+hp out of a 2 liter 6 if you use the right turbocharger, but it's an expensive effort.

Out here in CA we get to compete against Britain Smith is his (now) lotus suspension, suby 914 that puts out something in the range of 400hp, a bit less at the wheels.

But you'll like SCCA events. Always well run and lots of different competition.

I can't remember the other class that 914's (race cars) run and win, but I think that's with DOT tires. (edit: Check out FP, believe that is a good class for 914 race cars).

Good luck and let us know how you do.
Randal
QUOTE(Randal @ Apr 20 2016, 04:18 PM) *

QUOTE(naro914 @ Apr 20 2016, 03:13 PM) *

They have just an L class for all ladies if they want to run in it...only 4 ladies total!

She could run XP if she wanted, but figured she'd run with the ladies this time...

I joked if she'd actually know how to drive.. Until yesterday, she actually hadn't driven ANY car for a couple months!!! She works from home and when we go out anywhere, I drive...


XP is a tough class for 914's as you can't be competitive on a national basis with a built (Porsche) 4 or 6 on slicks. I've always thought the trick, following SCCA rules, would be to build a small turbo 6 with about 300+hp. I say small as SCCA penalizes cc's, so smaller is better.

It's not hard to get 300+hp out of a 2 liter 6 if you use the right turbocharger, but it's an expensive effort.

Out here in CA we get to compete against Britain Smith is his (now) lotus suspension, suby 914 that puts out something in the range of 400hp, a bit less at the wheels.

But you'll like SCCA events. Always well run and lots of different competition.

I can't remember the other class that 914's (race cars) run and win, but I think that's with DOT tires. (edit: Check out FP, believe that is a good class for 914 race cars).

Good luck and let us know how you do.


OK found the information about that Northwest 914: http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/vi...pionship-video/
naro914
the problem with our car is its a 3.2 engine, non-stock brakes and wider fenders...but basically it's the engine that does it.

I run Hoosier A7's.

My competition is a Suby STI, RX8, 240SX and a couple VW GTI's. No clue the modifications they've got..

I was told it's a fun competitive class here, but they agreed that nationally I wouldn't be competitive...
Randal
QUOTE(naro914 @ Apr 20 2016, 05:44 PM) *

the problem with our car is its a 3.2 engine, non-stock brakes and wider fenders...but basically it's the engine that does it.

I run Hoosier A7's.

My competition is a Suby STI, RX8, 240SX and a couple VW GTI's. No clue the modifications they've got..

I was told it's fun competitive class here, but they agreed that nationally I wouldn't be competitive...


Right, believe the limit in FP is 2.8 liters. The motor in that white FP car must have cost a bomb, being 280HP.

You ought to beat all those other cars autoxing, but built well driven Subi's are hard to beat on hill climbs.

Have you thought about trying Avon's for Autoxing?
jhadler
That's the Fordahl car. Many cubic dollars were invested in that car, and it indeed has won, but it still takes an ace pilot to do it.

-Josh

QUOTE


OK found the information about that Northwest 914: http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/vi...pionship-video/

ChrisFoley
QUOTE(jhadler @ Apr 26 2016, 02:36 PM) *

That's the Fordahl car.

It's now the Montgomery car.
naro914
OK, so update on our AX with SCCA.
I ran XP. Nadine in L...she could never get comfortable with the car so she was slowly getting better but could have used a few more runs. She just needs more seat time...hasn't driven Huey in 6 months, and hasn't done any driving at all (honestly) in a while (works from home)

I ended up 6 out of 12 in class, 1.4 sec from the class winner and 35 overall out of 164. I'm actually pretty OK with that since 1) first autocross in over a year, 2)my first couple runs I was messing with the Koni adjustables, and 3) my first 3 runs (out of 4) I honestly almost missed a gate. Just a mental block, it came up on me quicker than I expected and for some reason I just couldn't get it in my head until the last run to be prepared for it - it was a 120 degree right hander after an offset slalom. I kept blowing past the turn in! My last run I was cautious and hesitated before turn in and still picked up 2 seconds. I KNOW there was at least a second out there if I could have just nailed down that turn!!

So...not bad overall. The guys that beat me had more experience, big tires, big wings and splitters and MUCH bigger hp.


Click to view attachment
Cracker
Excellent job Bob!

Tony
Chris Pincetich
The big difference between SCCA and PCA AX, in my limited experience, is that just when you are getting that SCCA course dialed-in, you just finished your last run. biggrin.gif
You really want to concentrate and take notes on the course walk. Know the course, and don't have the "warm-up run" mentality - just go all out!
I predict top 10 overall next time beerchug.gif
J P Stein
First off, SCCA XP is a tough biddness......BTDT.

Learning a course by walking is an acquired skill. Ya gotta work at it. I found that walking the course twice ......with no distractions helps.......It's still a bitch.

You've got more car than I had......but mine was lighter. We ( when Brit was driving ) were suscessful to to and including National Tour events.

Ya also gotta learn "3 runs & you're done" mentality.

No one said it is easy.
Randal
QUOTE(naro914 @ May 3 2016, 10:44 AM) *

OK, so update on our AX with SCCA.
I ran XP. Nadine in L...she could never get comfortable with the car so she was slowly getting better but could have used a few more runs. She just needs more seat time...hasn't driven Huey in 6 months, and hasn't done any driving at all (honestly) in a while (works from home)

I ended up 6 out of 12 in class, 1.4 sec from the class winner and 35 overall out of 164. I'm actually pretty OK with that since 1) first autocross in over a year, 2)my first couple runs I was messing with the Koni adjustables, and 3) my first 3 runs (out of 4) I honestly almost missed a gate. Just a mental block, it came up on me quicker than I expected and for some reason I just couldn't get it in my head until the last run to be prepared for it - it was a 120 degree right hander after an offset slalom. I kept blowing past the turn in! My last run I was cautious and hesitated before turn in and still picked up 2 seconds. I KNOW there was at least a second out there if I could have just nailed down that turn!!

So...not bad overall. The guys that beat me had more experience, big tires, big wings and splitters and MUCH bigger hp.


Click to view attachment


Nice going!

You can easily add some downforce in the rear by attaching a 10" spoiler to the back of your ducktail. Just use riv-nuts in the back of the ducktail, then bolt to spoiler to the ducktail. You will be surprised with the difference it makes.

You can use aluminum or hit tap plastics.

Oh, make sure the ducktail is securly fastened to the trunk!

This spoiler was like 8", but with SCCA it can be 10".

Click to view attachment



naro914
QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 7 2016, 08:28 AM) *

First off, SCCA XP is a tough biddness......BTDT.

Learning a course by walking is an acquired skill. Ya gotta work at it. I found that walking the course twice ......with no distractions helps.......It's still a bitch.

You've got more car than I had......but mine was lighter. We ( when Brit was driving ) were suscessful to to and including National Tour events.

Ya also gotta learn "3 runs & you're done" mentality.

No one said it is easy.

Yeah, will take some getting used to... we've been doing PCA autocrosses for 20+ years, have won multiple class championships in 2 different PCA regions, gotten FTD multiple times and got top 10 OVERALL at Porsche Parade back a few years ago, but PCA is MUCH more laid back than SCCA (at least here on the east coast). I always walk at least twice (assuming we don't get there late) but when it's a few hours from walk to drive, it still takes me a couple runs to remember...something you don't have the luxury of with only 4 runs!! Obviously I STILL never got it right.

QUOTE(Randal @ May 7 2016, 11:03 AM) *



Nice going!

You can easily add some downforce in the rear by attaching a 10" spoiler to the back of your ducktail. Just use riv-nuts in the back of the ducktail, then bolt to spoiler to the ducktail. You will be surprised with the difference it makes.

You can use aluminum or hit tap plastics.

Oh, make sure the ducktail is securly fastened to the trunk!

This spoiler was like 8", but with SCCA it can be 10".

thanks for the suggestion Randal, but I won't be modifying the car for SCCA autocrosses...eventually Huey will be a vintage legal full race car once I can get an engine built and get another chassis to build a street car for the 3.2 that's currently in Huey...

To be honest, if we only did 4 runs in PCA, nobody would come. We bitch about having only 6....8 is what we expect. To prep the car, get up early, stand around all day for 4 minutes of "race" time is not very exciting. If that was all we did then sure, but track is our focus, Autocross fills in the empty weekends and gets us some seat time. My goal this weekend was to figure out the new suspension, though I'm not sure I got that figured out either....
Randal
QUOTE(naro914 @ May 9 2016, 05:13 AM) *

QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 7 2016, 08:28 AM) *

First off, SCCA XP is a tough biddness......BTDT.

Learning a course by walking is an acquired skill. Ya gotta work at it. I found that walking the course twice ......with no distractions helps.......It's still a bitch.

You've got more car than I had......but mine was lighter. We ( when Brit was driving ) were suscessful to to and including National Tour events.

Ya also gotta learn "3 runs & you're done" mentality.

No one said it is easy.

Yeah, will take some getting used to... we've been doing PCA autocrosses for 20+ years, have won multiple class championships in 2 different PCA regions, gotten FTD multiple times and got top 10 OVERALL at Porsche Parade back a few years ago, but PCA is MUCH more laid back than SCCA (at least here on the east coast). I always walk at least twice (assuming we don't get there late) but when it's a few hours from walk to drive, it still takes me a couple runs to remember...something you don't have the luxury of with only 4 runs!! Obviously I STILL never got it right.

QUOTE(Randal @ May 7 2016, 11:03 AM) *



Nice going!

You can easily add some downforce in the rear by attaching a 10" spoiler to the back of your ducktail. Just use riv-nuts in the back of the ducktail, then bolt to spoiler to the ducktail. You will be surprised with the difference it makes.

You can use aluminum or hit tap plastics.

Oh, make sure the ducktail is securly fastened to the trunk!

This spoiler was like 8", but with SCCA it can be 10".

thanks for the suggestion Randal, but I won't be modifying the car for SCCA autocrosses...eventually Huey will be a vintage legal full race car once I can get an engine built and get another chassis to build a street car for the 3.2 that's currently in Huey...

To be honest, if we only did 4 runs in PCA, nobody would come. We bitch about having only 6....8 is what we expect. To prep the car, get up early, stand around all day for 4 minutes of "race" time is not very exciting. If that was all we did then sure, but track is our focus, Autocross fills in the empty weekends and gets us some seat time. My goal this weekend was to figure out the new suspension, though I'm not sure I got that figured out either....


That little splitter was built for PCA rules out here with GGR. smile.gif What are your rules concerning splitters? By they way you'll be impressed with that litter splitter will do on the track.

I hear you on the number of runs, but to me SCCA was a challenge to see how fast I could learn a course and go out and nail it. A totally different game to see if one can compete with national champion autoxers and do it with as few as 4 runs.

Also when you set up your car for SCCA, with all the best tires (Avon's) and such, you do start thinking it's a better idea to do fewer runs. FYI the Avon's were $1,600 a set.
naro914
QUOTE(Randal @ May 9 2016, 12:40 PM) *

That little splitter was built for PCA rules out here with GGR. smile.gif What are your rules concerning splitters? By they way you'll be impressed with that litter splitter will do on the track.

I hear you on the number of runs, but to me SCCA was a challenge to see how fast I could learn a course and go out and nail it. A totally different game to see if one can compete with national champion autoxers and do it with as few as 4 runs.

Also when you set up your car for SCCA, with all the best tires (Avon's) and such, you do start thinking it's a better idea to do fewer runs. FYI the Avon's were $1,600 a set.

I'm not sure vintage racing even allows the little spoiler we have on the back as it is...

Right now, we are focused on getting Papa Smurf back for racing...though...it's really only PCA and SCCA race legal. IF...and a really big IF...we had thought logically and not with emotion, we would have parked Papa Smurf for a couple years and spent the money turning Huey into a vintage racer. But...that's not the direction we went down, so for now, Huey will stay as is, be street legal fun, do some autocrosses, and MAYBE a Time Trial or two until we get Papa Back. Once Papa's all sorted and working right, then we will decide what new direction Huey will go... we'll see..

Looking at our schedule, we MIGHT get one more local SCCA AX this year...

I hear ya on tire costs. Papa's Hoosier slicks are getting close to $2000/set. I like the Hoosier A7's for Huey...which aren't cheap either
J P Stein
QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Apr 27 2016, 07:05 AM) *

QUOTE(jhadler @ Apr 26 2016, 02:36 PM) *

That's the Fordahl car.

It's now the Montgomery car.


I disagree. It will always be the "Fordahl" car cause Fordahl built it.
It always seemed to me that it needed a special driver.... some one accustom to dirt track racing.

We whupped it cause Fordahl was no longer driving it, IMO.
ChrisFoley
QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 10 2016, 10:15 AM) *


I disagree. It will always be the "Fordahl" car cause Fordahl built it.
It always seemed to me that it needed a special driver.... some one accustom to dirt track racing.

We whupped it cause Fordahl was no longer driving it, IMO.

It isn't the same car anymore. That's my point.
J P Stein
QUOTE(Racer Chris @ May 10 2016, 10:09 AM) *

QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 10 2016, 10:15 AM) *


I disagree. It will always be the "Fordahl" car cause Fordahl built it.
It always seemed to me that it needed a special driver.... some one accustom to dirt track racing.

We whupped it cause Fordahl was no longer driving it, IMO.

It isn't the same car anymore. That's my point.

Really? Other than the paint job, how does it differ?
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