I 'm working on a Rat Rod 914 and I'm wondering if it is more work and money trying to put a Porsche 6cly in the car or just get a cheap small block chev V8 instead .. I have hear the guys have spend big bucks trying to rebuild a 4 cyl only to spend more time tuning and messing with trying to keep it tuned .. Whats your advice or feedback .. Thanks

go with a 4-cylinder...

T

It all depends on what your budget is and if you want to stay brand loyal. I have a 327 in mine and it is plenty quick but you can not beat the sound from a Porsche 6. Although you can buy 2 to 3 brand new Chevy crate engines for the cost of a 6. I bought mine already converted and don't think I would do it to one that was in working order.

Need more details about your current car and condition to make a suggestion.

If you are thinking LS1, then thats a great option when coupled with a boxster 6 speed. Expect about 8k when completed for the conversion.

If your thinking SBC, then I would advise against it.

I would say a subaru 6 would be a better option. You can probably have this conversion done for around 5k.

Porsche 6 will have the best resale and best sound, but extremely expensive. Expect 15k for the conversion.


Good luck. I enjoyed my v8, but I am doing a different conversion for a good reason...

If not a Porsche 6, a Subaru engine would be my next option.

your close to 12k to complete LS swap..

Worth every penny...

I stopped by Bob's house last week and rode in his LS1 car and DAAAAAMMMMNNNNN that thing is fast. WAY faster than you'd imagine if you have not experienced it. Like being shot through a cannon fast. First car that actually scared me for a minute. I got used to it pretty quick . I don't think he even gave it all it had since there was some traffic on the road. You have to be a very good driver to own a car with that much power. Also the brakes and suspension have to be in great shape or bad things will happen.

Just make sure you want one that fast before you build it. Otherwise stick with stock or look at a lower HP option. Subaru, Audi, etc.

Lol



A true Hooligans set up...

I was going to let you drive, but we were running out of fuel. My wife has driven this to work a couple of times.

Bob

Yeah really it worked out better that way. Rather get used to driving a car like that when there's no one else on the road and have you give it a good workout instead. Very quiet car (when you're off the throttle). You can listen to the radio and everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW_3Cec_meo

RAT ROD = V8.
You want the big torque to lay rubber. You need a better trans as well. LSD, big axels, then your CV are the weakest part. I can think of no weirder car to build a Rat Rod from but no way a 6- Porsche, A 6 Porsche is the way with a stock car body.

Not all V8's are rat rods,some of us need more power to keep up with friends....
Fyi cv's don't break if you have the right ones custom built

I'm of the mind that the engine can easily change the car into something other than a nimble, light, well handling car. Don't forget about the rest of the car. Your changing a lot of the physics with the engine. Do you want to drive the car as it is intended or just show up and spin the tires a little and giggle?

Rick: That notion is often repeated but usually from folks who have never driven a properly prepared car - you may or may not have driven a car you speak of - have you? I am only left to assume that one would not make a definitive statement, like you did, without on-track experience, to compare the two. For the record, I have driven a -4, -6 and LS powered cars in anger and I greatly disagree with your "spin your tires and giggle comment". Makes me wonder about either your motive or knowledge - please share which one (or both) it is.

Sadly, many P-folks do repeat the long held belief that a "heavy 914" at 2400 (like mine) becomes "un-nimble" whereas a 991 GT3 is praised for its lightness at 3000 lbs. Can anyone explain this to me? Isn't a pound and pound? The "almighty" new GT4 Clubsport weights in a 2868 lbs - I'd hate to think of what you think of that Porko...wait, that's the best Porsche has to offer and is the platform of the future. Geez.

My car, for instance was absolutely stunning on the track - it would run with anything in the corners and by nearly everything on the straights. There is nothing wrong having your cake and eating it too.

Regarding a rat-rod candidate - I'd still suggest a -4 or -6, far more fitting pissing off purists that way. Most 914's are rat-rods without even knowing it - that includes the various v8 builds too.

PS: There are allot of things that factor into allowing a 914 to handle well...my worst handling teener was a -6 - however, it had nothing to do with the engine. It rarely does...

T

Hey Guys .I'm really enjoying the feedback on this topic .. I'm glad to get the feedback from the guys that have been down that road ... there the ones that would have the do's and Don'ts on this swap ... This car is far from stock it has a wide body chalon kit on it to begin with ... Which is in most peoples eyes went it comes to 914's .. I have a 73 stock 1.7 in storage on a latter build .. .. and this is my Hot Rat Rod .. Flat Black... Big Tires ...and fast eng .. I have ran into to many guys that have spent big time money on the 4 cyl eng then spend more wasted time trying to get it to run or to keep it running .. Thanks Guys LOVE the Feedback ..

First time I've seen someone question Rick without knowing what he's about.

Cracker, you may be all hot shit and stuff, but you might want to tune in before saying stuff like that. You might learn something... If you are open to it.

So you answer for Rick? Interesting.

T

Rick answers for himself. I was just an observer. Sad you want to stir up shit. I had huge respect for your build. But the beholder that doesn't respect the classic builders around here? You are showing new colors.

Your comments show you haven't a clue. Have a good night Sir.

T

Dude, all I believe Rick was alluding to was that a lot of people want to throw a big, hopped up V8 in the car, but forget the most important stuff, i.e. are your brakes and tires up to the challenge of whoaing down all the newfound power you have. Hell, even 20-30 hp over stock can make these cars a handful for someone not prepared for it, and it's easy to overdo the HP to a point where the brakes can't keep up. I was always taught that when it comes to hopping up a car, the first dime you spend should be on the tires, then the brakes, then suspension. Power is towards the end of the list.


At least, I think that part needs to be stated. Everyone take a chill pill.

To the OP, I think a rat rod 914 is cool. I prefer to see a well-rusted chassis that wouldn't be otherwise saved, but that sounds like it's part of your plan. Save the good original chassis and make the ugly ones fast

I have a clue about understanding the PEOPLE on here. You might want to tune into that. In the long run, that's all that matters. And yes the best tuning mods come from there too. When you realize you are not the all-knowing-island, and there's other info out there, you might want to be open-minded.

Dude.... Turn down the the negative waive machine. As George and Rand were pointing out, the car is more that a big engine and the costs associated with bolting one in and dumping the clutch with 15x5.5 wheels and 195/60 tires. HP requires traction, traction causing more un-sprung weigh and inertia. The increased contact patch and increased tire diameter acting as a lever requires more stopping power. The list goes on. I'm not picking on your choice of engine. I fact the author of this thread could learn from your path. We all make choices, mine just happen to be Porsche. Peace

Maybe Rick doesn't understand new technology engines are so light weight
and powerful.

Were talking about the weight of a passenger compared to 4........

Ya, I don't understand physics. It's a lot more than the weight of the engine. It's the multipliers involved and the cost to correct every change.

The real question is how important is having a 6 speed Cable shift , hydro clutch are to you.
I think the LS + boxster S package tough to beat.

Kit is all made and it's bolt and go...

Dude a good chassis is a good chassis.Doesn't mater what power you put to it.
Or I'm just pull it out of my ass lol.
I do run chassis stiffening kit roll bar and adj front sway and rear sway....

Easy...

Some people don't know shit and then spew ignorance...its the "world" we live in.

T

I don't understand your comment. Read my posts. You make my point here.

And I wouldn't want anything you pull out of your ass.

Hey guys .. I'm finding out that on this site that there is many different types of Porsche owners .. there the ones that want everything to be stock... motor, body,wheels etc .. then theres the ones that want more power then the 4cyl motor so they look for the 914-6 or because of the cost put in other Porsche 6cyl engs trying the keep the true Porsche name .. then there the so called butcher babys that go and dump any power plant giving to man kind .. Now with this all being said it is VERY important to build the car by the suspension ,brakes and frame ,tires etc .. It don't matter if it's a Porsche or a Pinto with a 302 V8(owned one).. I just think that these cars (914) are over 40 years old and some are in great shape some are just parts .. And like any 40 year old car becomes a $$$ pit to bring back and keep stock .. I know this VERY well with the brother 911's which have put me in the poor house many times trying to keep it in top condition ... Now it's put me to point that I want a Hot Rod and a Stock 914 .. Two totally different cars BUT both 914's ... We are ALL different builders sharing the love for that little mid eng Icon "The 914"

Sorry Cracker, I got defensive and carried away.

so LS engine and audi trans is the latest HOT LICK. $12k is pricey but clearly not for what one get performance wise.

I need to play the lottery or rob a bank, asap.

one of my coworkers has a audi s4 supercharged, that things GOES and STOPS like hell.

I really can't imagine what it would feel like to drive a TIGHT 914 with LS and audi trans.

jim

That's pretty disrespectful in itself. If you want respect you need to give it.

look up the video for the subi svx powered 914, i think it sounds exactly like a porsche 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe_vWc87e1c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G1a7fd3Ph0


https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...ne%20for%20sale
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/audi-6-speed-transmission
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Subaru_engines#EZ36D
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...ru%20h6%20turbo

http://www.914sgonewild.com/
"Shocked how much 15psi makes it get up to go!"


The horse power race,more is nice,more is good,more feels better.
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...4%20dyno%20test


Brazilian date?
https://www.youtube.com/user/zanolamecanica/videos

Or,you could just zip over to your favourite autowreckers and select a latemodel V6 DOHC anymake at the pricepoint you are
comfortable with and go with it.A modern 5/6 speed Audi transaxle and you're all set up.
3K into an engine + tx is about as economical as it gets,the option of using custom efi further reduces outlay,tho time consuming.
It's an interesting subject,everyone has their own take on it,the Nissan V6 a great engine for the dough.
A Chalon of good fairness and colour with a solid powertrain has to please you first,whatever the engine you choose.

https://www.graveyardmotorsports.com/
The Inconel ex valves suitable for heavy pressure,when you decide more power is what you need.

/

IMO, go with a FI 3.2 6. It's dependable, fast and fits right into the car. I hope you've got $$$ set aside for suspension etc. I like going around corners and 400-500 hp on the street is IMO a waste of HP. 250-300 HP is plenty.

A "cheap" SBC is about the same costs as swapping a Subaru or Passat/A4 when it's a finished reliable product. Benefits include a smaller lighter engine, modern FI, and better trans.
A 3.0+ Porsche engine alone will cost more than the LS swap parts. Add conversion parts for another few grand.
The LS swap car needs fat tires (flares) to handle the hp, plus chassis work for the tq, so the costs don't stop at $12k.
Unless you're racing class requires it, a built T4 is alot of $$ per hp, and it's still a noisy air cooled VW oil dripper.
I'm happy with my 190hp Nissan Maxima v6. All the drivability of modern FI and keeps up with 911's

I haven't read through the whole tread, but based on the V8 914s that frequent this forum. Its my opinion that Cracker has one BAD A... V8 teener. From engine, trans and suspension...the only thing that I would change ( maybe I'm wrong) is to bolt on RSR fronts and 993 Big Red TT brakes .

I must be a Butcher baby...

Although they may be better...my set-up has larger rotors (slightly) than the Big Reds. I chose to go with a more-modern caliper too. The fronts are 997/911...over-braking is a bigger concern at the moment than too little. Mine don't "look as cool" as the BRTT...I'll give you that!

T

PS: I believe I also qualify for the Butcher Baby category. I embrace it unapologetically...

This is what I think of when I hear people say

"Butcher Baby"


Click to view attachment

just got to say for all the dreamers out there reading this thread, if money is not an obstacle, LS and S trans, sounds awesome.

but if it is, you can not go wrong with sbc crate 350 for $2000 and renegades' conversion and cooling kit for $3000. add to this a dr evil rebuilt 914 trans, and for about $7000 (carb, distributor, fuel pump, etc, etc) you'll have some very enjoyable power with very minimal fabrication and complication.

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/914/SBC/SBC.html
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-1249.../make/chevrolet
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=56892

as others will say, with this extra power OR NOT, one should have good working suspension, brakes, etc.

I just re-read this and for the life of me cannot understand (barring a Scotty Boy edit) how this could have been misconstrued as anything other than good, friendly information!

This is yesterdays news...no reason to resurrect it.

T

I was a V8 914 fan and have done one with SBC/915 gearbox and one with a 600hp LS6/G50-52. Building the V8 914's saves money on the engine but that last G50-52 was $10K with LSD and was bomb proof. I know you guys run the LS1/ Boxster S trans and have some luck with it lasting but I think it is pushing it. Just started a new build and I am using the Boxster S trans but this time I have a 2014 Caddilac LFX 3.6 V6 DOHC that puts out 350 hp with a stand alone ECU tune and revs to 7200 rpm. Paid $800 for the motor with 20K miles on it and it weighs 340lbs. I think this is a good alternative to the V8 or Porsche 6 and keeps the price way down. I will start a build thread at some point as things start to bolt together.

I look forward to this build thread. I love the idea of a smaller sized engine in the engine bay vs a v8. 7200 rpms will be the SHIT : )

but my engine is a tired 307 that I rarely rev to 4000 and very rarely rev to 5000.

a big cost to any FI engine is the stand alone ecu, vs carb.

super high tech gas direct injected motor!

easy reading http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-0...njection-guide/

Sounds like a slick package - especially for the money. That will make a great street rod with adequate power on hand. Good luck.

Tony

Audi 4.2's can be found all day long in running condition for less than $1000...

They bolt right up to a Boxster or Jetta gearbox which can be had in the $200+ range.

Sweet looking motor, sounds good. Sure not as much HP potential as the LS but high HP is not for everyone.