Did the more obscure part 1st, so if you need the non sloped version, it's in stock. So who's up?
Will be $45 after GB

Mark,

Did you do a reinforcement ring around where you'd drill a hole for the mounting stud on the 72-74 MY cars, so it won't crack?

The originals had a hole with a raised lip outside for that reason, but you could just add thickness in a ring to the inner or outer side if not on there yet.

Just a thought to make it more durable for those of us with the stud mounted covers.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

This is a thermally molded part, so I had not planned to "add" anything other that what the factory part has. The issue should be able to be be resolved using washers, I would think.

By the way, the part pictured that we will be using for molding is a NOS factory part with the sticker still in the inside. This is exactly what we will be making.

I'm down for one.

Down for one as mentioned,thanks.

Mark,

There were 3 types of these covers:

1 - Early without the sloped front for the pre-3-point seatbelt 914s (70-71 MY)

2 - Mid for 72-74 MY with the sloped front & a hole at the spot where yours has a circle with a raised lip around the edge of where the top nut seats on the cover - to prevent the cover from cracking around the post hole.

> This is what I was suggesting you make an adaptation to the Late cover.

They had no notch in the center longitudinal ridge & on the front edge top corner for the late rubberband tie-down - which your NOS model has.

3 - The part which you show is the late 75-76 MY only form with no hole for the post/nut & has a notch for the "rubberband" tie-down.

It sounds like you've covered 2 of the 3 versions, but not the most used one covering the big production years of 73-74 (about 52,000+ with both) plus the 72 MY for about 78K cars - or about 75% of all 118000+ 914's produced.

I've seen the former late repro covers drilled for the post without any reinforcement, & invariably they will crack at the post hole, regardless of using washers. I have 2-3 in my old parts stash already.

So what you're producing now will suffer the same fate. ... as did drilling the OEM late factory cover like your casting model btw.

BTW - the posts & knurled nut come with a washer for one side anyway. The washers will not help, as you suggest above.

There were some early 80's & late 70's repros produced from the original 72-74 Mid cover with the hole/ridge, but they also went NLA around the late `80s when PP & Pelican stopped carrying them.

So you have can pick one of two ways to resolve this issue - either add a 3rd & far more common 73-74 MY type of cover with the properly moulded ridge & hole for the post/hut, & without the rubber band notches ....

... or what I suggested to cover mid & late 72-76 cars - as the reinforcement of thicker plastic - probably on the underside - so that the late type in your pic won't crack.

If you leave it as is, then I wouldn't buy one & some others won't, & you may get a lot of complaints from others who do buy them to drill the hole & have them crack.

I posted this & my above post as a helpful heads-up for you, not to head off your production of the late version.

Good Luck either way,
Tom
///////

We will look at addressing this with a thicker /better quality material. To injection mold these would be cost prohibitive.

Judging from the lack of interest we may not make these.

Well done Tom T a wealth of rubbish in your reply,appears you have a s#itload info/knowledge on these and have condemed something not even finished and made yet .

Not much help ............. I'd like one for my white car.
Your blue car needs one. Usual crack across the top on both.

Yeah, the use of PP, or better yet a TPO, would make the cracking a non-issue. The deflection properties of both of those materials should be good enough to allow the top nut to be screwed down onto the post where the stop is at without cracking. So even someone who doesn't know a washer needed to be used, or just keeps screwing the nut on just because it keeps screwing down a thread should be able to break it.

Originally the covers look to be a blend of PP and maybe a styrene. Or maybe just a high crystalline type of PP.

I'm just trying to help out with these, so they will work for the majority if the 914s with the post & nut/washer attachment.

The time to suggest these improvements is before he goes into production.

After 41 years with my 914 & a bunch of buddies with them, I know where past problems lie, & don't want Mark to suffer the same.

So back-off a bit Lad!

Rob-O

Back in the day I showed my Dad the one repro that had cracked & he said it was probably pure polystyrene. If he were still alive today, he could advise Mark on the best material for both the heat of the engine bay, cracking resistance & longevity of the parts, since he was a petro-chemist.

In the 50's-70's while with Koppers & Whittaker, he was behind the research & patents for everything from NASA space program stuff, GFRP plastic housing, & the solvent based urethane varnishes & paints used on our homes, woodworking, cars, etc. - so he would know.

Good Luck Mark, I'm sure you'll work out the issues on it, as you always do!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Folks -

What Mark is saying here that not enough of you have stepped up for one or more, as well as that he's looking into solutions for the cracking problem on the post/nut hold-down types.

If you have a 75-76 914 with the rubber band hold-down, then speak up now so Mark can move forward.

If you have the post & nut attachment, then you can wait for feedback from Mark as to his solution before ordering, or just order if you're not concerned or doubt my feedback for Mark's benefit.

For the CW's out there - I doubt that any level of judging will gig you points for using this one with the late version's notches at any PCA Concours, so that shouldn't hold you back once the fixes Mark is checking into are included in production. I've been judging in PCA Zone 8 for several years now & none of us are allowed to gig on originality (if they even know), & I doubt that any of the Parade CdE judges would do so either.

Either way, he needs a certain number of them in the GB to start production ..... so either way more folks need to step up!

.

Mark - I'll put in for one tentatively - based on you're implementing a material &/or thickness modification to resist the cracking problem.

.... & I agree, that these shouldn't be injection molded, since the originals AFAIK were vacuum molded from thin sheet, which is hard to injection mold to the thinnes you'd need to fit properly.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Thanks guys,
The "best" way to make these is injection molding.
It would allow me to control the thickness and add material exactly in thickness required.
The only cost effective way to make these is from forming. I really need to make at lease 50 to break even. I have committed to making these, as other sellers have stepped up to support production of these. Sierra Madre has stepped up to buy 20. This starts to change my business model some.
It will allow me to make these parts. The only thing that concerns me is I really don't like getting too far away from grass roots I started with. My concern is that on doing so another Chinese based manufacturer decides to drop Thier version in for less at the other retailer.

So yes it's a 2 edged sword.

I will make these with the best materials, but if you buy elsewhe re ask for the 914rubber version.
I guess its about time to start "branding" .

[quote name='Tom_T' date='May 12 2016, 07:33 AM' post='2343213']
[quote name='porschetub' post='2343024' date='May 11 2016, 03:45 AM']
Well done Tom T a wealth of rubbish in your reply,appears you have a s#itload info/knowledge on these and have condemed something not even finished and made yet .
[/quote]

I'm just trying to help out with these, so they will work for the majority if the 914s with the post & nut/washer attachment.

The time to suggest these improvements is before he goes into production.

After 41 years with my 914 & a bunch of buddies with them, I know where past problems lie, & don't want Mark to suffer the same.

So back-off a bit Lad!

Quote,

Thanks Tom for calling me a lad,big compliment ....really,been a long time since I have been a lad cool .
Have you one of Marks covers and seen problems or are you just talking about how the originals were made in the mid 70's,time has moved on from when you were a laddie and I'am really certain his product will be ok.
Ok lets put it out there and ask if the early ones he has made aren't up to standard,some must have them by now??

[quote name='porschetub' date='May 11 2016, 11:25 PM' post='2343538'
Thanks Tom for calling me a lad,big compliment ....really,been a long time since I have been a lad cool .
Have you one of Marks covers and seen problems or are you just talking about how the originals were made in the mid 70's,time has moved on from when you were a laddie and I'am really certain his product will be ok.
Ok lets put it out there and ask if the early ones he has made aren't up to standard,some must have them by now??
[/quote]

No problem, we old guys need a "Lad" every once in awhile too!

I have not seen Mark's early ones in person, but IIRC he made them from an original as well, so they'd have the lip around the post hole to prevent the cracking.

What I'm suggesting - & Mark has now said he is looking into - is a "Fix" or improvement to the Late - i.e.: "No Post Hole" version in the pic above - so that Mark can make 1 product to cover both the mid- & late- covers.

So you can stop the rant now, & just see what Mark comes up with.

My suggestions are NOT why Mark hasn't had enough pre-orders for the GB as you implied, but because not enough members on here have not stepped forward.

So you can also encourage others to put in their orders - either non-qualified orders for those with 75-76 (&/or 72-74 willing to take a chance on cracking), or at least as a tentative order if he comes up with a fix.

Otherwise, we with the 75% of ALL 914s out there with the post holes from the production years of 72-74 will have to wait for his 3rd product version to come out with the factory molded post holes.

Simple as that!

Cheers Mate!
Tom
///////

Excellent idea on your branding on your products, since you've got products at SMC & Stoddards, & maybe others!

I thought you'd done that already, since you mentioned it when I met you by LAX that time a few years back with the Vanagon spoiler parts.

Although that original "914 Rubber" logo may be a bit much for some out there (it was a condom for those who haven't seen it).

Mark, I'm wondering if you could just make a washer or doughnut shaped at the underside mold at the position where the post hole would be at - with the "doughnut hole" centered where the post hole would be drilled by the buyer - so that there was a little extra thickness there, but imperceptible from the outside.

It probably only needs a few more mm's or a thin steel washer thickness more to resist cracking, I would think.

You could probably just temporarily attach a washer to the underside of the NOS cover to do the mold casting, then peel it off. This seems like the KISS solution.

While a specific plastic material change may help too, but I'd think that PP or TPP or TPE may get soft(er) with the engine bay heat, & this "fix" would allow you more material choices for easier manufacturing.

Just brain storming some ideas for you!

Thanx for your work on this & Cheers!
Tom
///////

Remember most of these parts are over 30 years old. Over time they will show wear (cracking). The risk I run in making a part that is noticeably different is the CW segment. Also, with better materials they should last longer. So what I'm saying, is the failure you see in the OEM part after 30 years, may simply be made better with materials. If it takes 30 years to determine, great. The damage may be from over tightening, which wool be the same either way.
Yes I will make the best part I can, I'm still on the fence as to if the modification would actually solve the problem. Ill look at this when we are working on it. Maybe there will be another solution, or not.


Thanks to all.

Minor hijack. Mark, I noted the barrel nuts are available but not listed. Is there a way to add a 'new but not shown' section to the 914rubber site? Something one can see at a glance on the home page. Me..."oh. Mark is selling those too".

Bigest problem is I'm the one that's listing these. As I have no pictures I can't really do a "half" listed item.

However,
I think it's worthwhile doing a new parts section so that if you stop in every so often you can see what's new. We've been limping on this site so long that it's almost painful, but I will add this section shortly.
No problem on the hijack.

Hey Mark, just to be clear, the cracking on the older repro ones without the factory part's reinforcement ring, typically happened within a year or so. Not 30 years.

The factory part would last much longer, so those were cracking at 10+ years (or not at all if you & your mechanic were very careful) - so that's normal aging issues as you say.

Here is the fate of the last aftermarket repro late style cover on mine - new in `80 with engine rebuild & rolling resto - cracked within a year. That washer was always used on top of it + another under it on the little step of the post below the threads, all to no avail.

Click to view attachment

NOTE - This is NOT one of Mark's products in the pic above.

.

PS - I'll see if I can find a pic of an OEM Mid-Cover for the post 72-74 MY in my files later.


Tom
///////

Mark...count me in for a cover....

Thanks,,
I have and idea of how I might reinforce it.

Mark, count me in for a cover. I trust your build judgement.
Thanks

Assuming you find a solve for reinforcing the screw hold down, put me down for one as well.

I would like one also, thanks

To be clear, I can reinforce it, and it SHOULD, perform better than the OEM part, but I may just be delaying the inevitable.

If this was a part that was safety related or was a higher dollar part I would test it which would cost much more and take moe time and effort that equates to a higher cost.

My question is how does the plastic spontaneously crack? I know for sure I can provide a suitable material. I can also add thickness in this area, but it will be possible to overtighten. That problem I can not solve. I can put a orange sticker on the inside?

If anyone has any further insight as to why these crack it would help, please chime in.

I'd be in for one

I am guessing heat has a lot to do with it. Maybe modify the screw down bolt so it limits how far down you can screw it to prevent putting pressure on the top instead of re-engineering the cover. Possibly include a new modified bolt as part of the package.

Bingo,
I can sell with a nut tack welded to limit the travel. I wonder if this is another reason they went to rubber bands?

Mark,

The brittleness of the plastic & the fact that it was dead flat on the top of the repros & modified OEM late covers - & then you had to drill a hole - that is why it cracked. It's subjected to a mess of vibration in there when engine is running.

The earliest early & mid covers were a bit heavier gauge plastic - plus they had a raised dimple around the hole to prevent cracking, & allow the thumb-nut to seat with the washer. Those were reasonably durable, but could eventually crack as the plastic aged & got more brittle.

So I don't think the rubber band change was due to cracking - it was simply a cost saving - saving a post, nut, washers & a cover with & rubber band. And the rubber bands would break & then the covers would flop around & get damaged on the late version.

Just as the 74> changes to black plastic thresholds at the doors, heat seamed seat pleating instead of sewn, black dot gauges with plastic bezels & only one indicator light for both L & R turn signals .... need I go on!?

The early posts had a little step or flange on them to prevent over tightening, & even with washers above & below the cover, they would still crack lacking the raised lip on the originals. Plus the threading stops at the point where the cover is seated properly anyway, so it's not due to over tightening - unless the post has be modified, or is an aftermarket one with the threading too deep & lacking the step-out.

The danger of having a nut tack welded to the post to sit below the cover, is that it could serve to put too much upward pressure on the cover under vibration, & enhance the cracking effect.

IMHO as someone who has dealt with engineering & design problems for 46+ years, the solution is to have more "meat" in material thickness around the problem area, &/or to add back the OEM 72-74 mid-era cover's lip & reinforcement "ring" around the post hole.

I do think that your idea of a warning & instructions for adapting it for post hole use is a good idea.

You have my cell, if you want to call this weekend to bounce around some ideas. I'll be working on our trailer for an upcoming vintage trailer event, so leave a message if I don't pick up right away with hands busy.

Cheers!
Tom
///////

So if you

Here's my 70 cover, the post has a stop and washer to limit the travel. And the raised dimple on the cover. (no washer ever on top of the cover)
Original finish

Click to view attachment

Thanx Garland, but your pic didn't upload.

You can either upload it from your computer using the attachment below the smilies, or add it from the web/cloud using the insert picture icon (tree) at the menu above the type message box.


Tom
///////

Fixed forgot the picture.

Omg ,give it a bone Tom,do you have a lot of spare time or are you just being a PITA,come its only a plastic cover,honestly I have never seen anyone challenge what 914 rubber makes like you do .
Vibrating engine ,really .
Its never to late to hop out into the garage and make some better stuff
This GB will crash like a lead balloon the way you are going,all I need is this cover otherwise I work around the 2 incorrect un split early covers I have,as soon this will be a non event.

Mark I'll take one however you end up making it.

JD

Oh stop being such a Wanker!

Really, he asked for input, & I gave it to him.

I type fast FYI!

TT ///////

Mark,

As you can see from Garland's pic above - the OEM posts already have a lower stop which can be used with a washer to limit travel of the top nut, as I tried to explain.

So your idea to supply a new post with a tack welded nut is not adding any protection & would be superfluous, except for someone needing a post (separately sold part for them maybe?).

You can also see the top dimple around the post hole on the cover, which I was also trying to explain. Unfortunately, I didn't have a pic of one like this.

The dimple delayed, if not mostly prevented the cracking, but they could stil eventually crack over time, but lasted much longer than the flat topped late ones drilled for the hole.

The 72-74 MY "mid-era" cover was like the above, but with the sloped front to clear the 3-point seat belt.

For your production to keep the top flat on the outside, I still think that adding some meat to the underside is the best way to go - whether a washer sized spot or larger area.

Thanx for continuing to work on this issue.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

Think I have another idea that will be an option to add. It will involve rubber.

I don't think a condom will help Mark!


Tom
///////

Mark me down for one

Just use a TPO, problem solved. The original thickness will be fine, the lack of a dimple or extra material will be fine. Since TPO is a blend of polypropylene and rubber, the polopropylene will give the part rigidity. The rubber will allow the part to give without the deflection in that area causing a crack and having it propitiate further. End of story, don't need to know why it happened, what years and all the other stuff. TPO is available in sheet if you're going to take sheet and vacuum form. I was in the industry for many years and could probably procure sample material if you need it.

TPO was my 1st choice, I do have a local source, but for those that want more I have another idea too.

Hey @Mikey914 , do you still have the later version available? Your web site seems to have only the early version available to buy.

Yes the actually are up for sale but it might be a little confusing.
The listing
https://914rubber.com/relay-board-cover-for-porsche-914

allows you to choose the option of retractable seat belts or not.
The Early, is non retractable., so it is the larger non sloped part.

The later years were sloped to allow for the retractable unit to mount under the backpad requiring the additional clearance, hence the shape.

I will work on making this listing more clear.
Thanks
Mark

@Mikey914 Just a heads up, I'm having the same issue as bkrantz with this. If you choose "retractable" from the drop down menu the add to cart button disappears.

I'll get on that, not sure why it's doing that but will post up when fixed.
Mark

Hi Mark, not sure if I've missed the deadline, but if Im still able to, can I join the GB please.

Nick

The deadline on this one was in 2016 but we do have them. I have Stephine checking inventory now and she should update today. If we are out I'll make some more tomorrow. I will post up either way once these are able to be bought on the website.

The good news was we were able to keep the suggested retail below the $45 so they still are "on sale" if you want to think about it that way.

Does anyone know of a source for the round rubber band that holds the later versions on?