When we returned from Rt66 '16 I pulled my exhaust system down for a little trimming and noticed water in the left bank muffler! We did drive through a ton of water on that trip. Then when returning from Costco yesterday it acted as if it were starved for fuel when it stumbled during acceleration. The fuel filter was the same one that came on the engine so I ordered another one. When I looked at the filter to check which one I had I noticed the coolant level in the expansion tank/reservoir had dropped. Well, there you are. Head gasket time. Now, I'm wondering if the stumble was due in fact to the head gasket failing? Decisions; should I fix this one which presently has ~ 185K or buy a JDM replacement. After perusing the net I found a few peep's whose JDM experience was less than stellar. Apparently it is a crap shoot as to what you get and the 40-50K avg mileage is . So, for about 1K I can pick up another engine and hope I bought a good one or open this one up and hope that is all it needs since it wasn't overheated. What does the the Wasser family think?

EDIT: It's an EZ30D 6cyl

As you know, I like doing stuff myself..

Just my .02 cents, but I would have a lot more confidence in an engine you or I resealed/refreshed than a 50K mile imported engine that is essentially a big question mark.

Almost 100% the head gasket, and the resulting issues (as you said, the coolant has to go somewhere, right?) As Ethan said, you can do this, it's not as bad as it seems. Figure a day to get the engine out and onto a stand. Then another day to tear the accessories and heads off. Send them to a machine shop to be measured, and if necessary, decked. Do both at once - Suby's, for whatever reason are still notorious for this stuff, even as developed as the EZ30 is.

I haven't gotten mine running yet, but after moving to the Cometic MLS gaskets, I don't think I'd ever go back to the stock composite gaskets. A little more prep, but I believe it's the best idea.

You could do the head gasket no problem Kent. Doesn't look that hard at all. You have the EZ30D shop manual right? Let me know if not, I have it.

BTW I know of an EZ30R (I think is still) laying around...not a JDM. PM me if you want more info.

Its because they are somewhat terrible motors.

a head install video i like


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddFsFfiyOvg

George, tell me more about the Cometic gaskets. Haven't heard of them before.


Chris, a million ty's as always but yes I have the shop manual. The "R" model would require changing out the accelerator cable etc because it is drive by wire. FWIW, I decided to do both the rebuild and buy a replacement. I found a "D" model which is complete so I'm going to throw $1000 at it and holler shit. I can use the spare parts if nothing else. If it's a keeper then maybe Dr. Frankenstein will have something to "play with".


Ya'll need to ignore Collard Greens. When he was a little boy he used to come over to our farm and squirt Chicken Shit through his front teeth. I thought he would have outgrown it by now.

That sucks. But from what I have read, pretty simple to do.
good luck! My time to get out and play is limited, but happy to help pull the motor/install with you.

Haha, I just commented in your post, as well. Thanks for the offer Chris but if you've seen my "roll around" cradle you can see it's pretty simple. That being said, you are more than welcome to come over anytime. I'm in the Temecula/Murrieta area. Kent

I'll be interested in what you find. The EZ30s are supposed to be far more reliable head-wise than the 4-cyl engines. My recollection is that changing them on the ez30 is a bit of a pain since tou have to deal with the timing chain and cover.

Yeah you need a new chain...it'll be stretched so you might as well. And it's an interference engine...so check it good before you fire it up.

You know Ross, if you don't count the ~60 bolts it doesn't look very difficult. There are a few chain guides that will require bolt replacement as their stretch bolts. The chains supposedly have color coded links and the gears have arrows to aid indexing them. It will be interesting to see what the head gaskets look like. Who knows, I may find loose head bolts from previous work. It's got about 200K on it now and I run the piss out of it. Anyway, I'll drop that thing this week(end) and post what I find.

What is water doing in the car?

That's kind of a secret, Rich, but I can tell you it's what makes his car go faster than your car.

And I thought the 2010 3.6's were non-interference engines,..damn

No sir. But then again there is a timing chain vs a belt making it much more maintenance free. You should not need to do anything to that engine that would require removing the timing chain.

Subaru Interference list

sorry to hear about the engine troubles Kent. At least you have done it before so this time it will be faster.

Let me know if you need some useless assistance. I will send my son down to help.

A snail is faster than my car at the moment

Big Boy I know my shop is a bit too far from you, but 2 shops down from me there is a great group of dudes that know a bunch about Subaru...Like they race them..
the web site
guy's name is Richard.. let me know I can talk with them, They may be helping me put that same motor in my 911S soon...

Likely related to the early over heating issue when you were sorting the cooling system. Now that you have that under control sounds like a fresh engine is the order of the day. Oh, and stickier fatter tires. I would say I owe you a set of rears but you built the car and just tossed me the keys. So I blame you.

Ha ha ha, he did that to you? Very cool, that's what I do, too. Especially to people who "can't imagine" a Subaru powered car. It's not possible to explain, they need to experience it.

You drove it like it was yours, Rick. Proud of ya. Another cause might be the constant pressure on it from running smaller coolant lines. I'll install a pressure gage afterwards to monitor max developed pressure and go from there. I pulled the drive train last nite but I was too tired to tear into the engine afterwards. However, when perusing the net this AM I found that I can buy a Brand New Subarau short block for < $2500. That ain't much for a 200K mile engine. If the heads are good and I keep machine work and misc parts/seals < $1000 that will work out to about 1.5 cents per mile to own. This may become a no brainer. I'll know more after a tear down. More later.

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2.5k. Wow. These are units sourced from Subaru by a secondary vendor?

Cometic gaskets are all MLS, or multi-layered steel. On a properly prepped surface they're supposed to be far superior, if not bulletproof compared to stock gaskets, which are called "composite" gaskets, produced with a bunch of soft metal material that crushes when it's torqued down.

Google it - most of the serious Suby tuners use them on those 450+ hp WRX motors.

Yeppers. Check it out and Happy Birthday. http://parts.renicksubaru.com/a/Subaru_200...B12-003-01.html


Found them. They offer 3 different thickness'. Hmmm! Also noticed the article mentioned that OEM gaskets contained asbestos until the 90's and that it took Subaru a few years to develop a suitable head gasket. I wonder what I will do if I find the existing gaskets are OK.

I love how the engine cradle is also the drivetrain dolly...

A thing of back saving beauty.

I'm running Cometic gaskets on the Alien. First because the heads were cut one too many times. I had a custom thickness made to bring the valves up off the pistons. Second because of the superior sealing. Weird things. Layered stamped steel riveted together to keep alignment while installing. They can stack them to what ever your needs are.

Yup, they don't sound like they'd seal, but they're good for some serious boost. It is really nice that you can get them in different thicknesses too, as deviations from stock deck height on a Suby motor also means varying cam timing from left to right banks. In my case, I had .004 taken off the heads at the machine shop, so I oversized the HGs from Cometic by the same number.

Quick question Kent - on the front of your cradle, does it bolt directly to the "early" style rubber outer engine mounts, or to the little stamped steel half-moon shaped pieces found on the later cars?

Thx Rich, I can't remember who I stole that idea from. Musta been DBCooper or BIGKAT.


I'll need to find out what the stock thickness is then. I want to keep the CR stock which is 10.?:1. I'll look it up.


Here ya go George. A pic is worth a 1,00o words. Scroll thru these shots........ http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...776&st=120#

Yeah, you'd need to find the stock thickness - I believe it's .040, but it'd be better to check with Subaru. Then, have the heads inspected and whatever machining is done to them will determine the thickness of the gasket you'd order from Cometic (0.040 + 0.0xx).

Thanks for the pictures. Now I remember how you did it. In my case, the stock engine mounts for the EG33 are shot and prohibitively expensive. So I'm looking at using solid mounts from the cradle to the engine and early 914 engine bar mounts to provide some movement/give for vibration.

I have ONE good mount (and one bad one) you can have George but you really don't need them in the middle, especially for a race car. Too wobbly and you'd definitely tear one open pretty quick. You're on the right track with the early mounts at the stock location up front. You could weld extensions to the stock Subaru engine mounts or fill them with urethane for mounting to the cradle the urethane thing sounds too easy to work permanently...maybe it'd be OK.

needs some OIL on his tripod, the camera is squeaky.... nice video tho.

I need a engine cradle,..too...!!!!

Thx for the video Jim but mine is a six. I do have the factory manual which is super! So this is what it looked like fully dressed sans the idler laying on top.

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And with her bra off

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Stripped off her chains

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A peek inside the water pump housing. Take a close look a see that the 4 bolt holes are 6mm. You can also see the thermostat in the background.

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Now look at the size of the holes on the flange of the water pump. They're 8mm and 2 of them are tapped. Once you unscrew the 4 6mm bolts that hold the pump in place you still need to get it out. All you need are 2 8mm bolts that thread into the flange and push against the case. Then you just tighten each a little and walk it out. No "pulling or prying or crying or cussing". 15 seconds and out. Brilliant! Gave me a DUH moment when I thought about it. Why aren't similar pumps all engineered like this?

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Here's one showing the smaller screw against the larger hole in the flange.

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Stopped here now with the cam gears removed. Tomorrow I'll pull the rear cover off (which is basically a mirror image of that cover laying on the floor) and next the heads then off I go to find a good machinist. Some of you may remember my past experiences with some of these local machinist's.

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Kent is that really the best you have?
Obviously im remarking on the Irony that subaru people swap to these motors because its more reliable and so much better yet here we are.
Along with the hard fact that they are problematic motors at the best of times in performance situations.
Best of luck with getting it fixed but after seeing whats inside your timing cover id just get a brand new motor because that thing is dirtier than a alcoholic priest in in a whorehouse.
Though ill never not find the plumbing pipe cooling system funny.

Wow! Arnolds tractor oil? That thing will run 5 deg. cooler once all the sludge is removed.

Word of caution. My cooling system gauges read safe with the occasional spike in temp when I forgot to switch on my fans in stop and go traffic. Ended up cooking my oil as the oil temps were hotter than my water temps when they spiked. Cooked the viscosity enhancers out of the oil. Caused a drop in oil pressure. Castrol GTX. The bike racers call it Castrol brown. They can cook the oil in half a dozen laps. Turns the inside of your engine brown.

Holy crap....I thought you powder coated that black at first Kent.

Sheesh Kent I better finish mine up if you're gonna move this fast.

All that mess is probably your oil pump leaking a TINY bit at the seal, or an O-Ring, something like that. It's just Subaru RTV (use grey RTV) sealing it to the block. Doesn't last forever. The oil has nowhere to go since the timing chain cover is sealed. Just gets flung around by the chains and then baked, especially since the pump is kinda high up.

Wow the shop manual does a great job of describing break down/build up with color pics and stuff!

Poly mounts to the -4 mounting point are easy. I have a set made up, that I don't need anymore if you want them.

Or you just use these and build your own.

A couple pieces of steel your done, also work for the rear trans mounts.

It's all good. I'll take a pic of the inside of one of those copper fittings and let you see for yourself.


I think Stephen nailed it in his response. I remember the Pennzoil Sludge as well. Oil temps ran a little high because all the fasteners around the oilpump were abnormally tight. You can see the external oil cooler they used to aid with oil temps. It's the piece that the oil filter screws onto. Notice that it is caked in sludge. That can't help. I got it tore down last nite and am cleaning parts and the garage now. I'll post pic's later but the head gaskets "kind of" looked OK to my uninformed ass. And they are the layer steel type. Maybe this is why they usually don't suffer these type failures. Got to get back in the garage but I'll post pic's later and you can see what I'm taliking about Rick.


Yea, just as Stephen alluded to below and remember it pushed the heaviest station wagon Subaru made for ~180K.


You are ahead of me. Mine isn't close to running again. Those Subaru factory manuals are pure pleasure are they not?


I didn't know where to but those when I made mine so I just used the stock Suby mounts. My main concern was that I would forget where I bought any non-Oem part. Have you set a 1st run date yet Stephen???

OK, this is what I was referring to when I said the head gaskets "kind of" looked OK.

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But is this normal? This small area appears to be "DE-lamenating" compared to the rest of the gasket. And this area is dead straight above the exhaust outlet on the left head.

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Carnage

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Some's pic showing the condition of 3 copper "plumbing fittings" after almost 2 years 10 mo's in service. As you can see, no apparent damage from electrolysis.

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See, water = corrosion, just sayin

Well, I'm either a lucky SOB or I missed something. I dropped the heads at a new local machinist. He calls me after cleaning the heads & a leak down test and says they really don't need work unless I just wanted to spend some $$$. Two intake valves had 4% leak down and one exhaust valve had 9%. Resurfacing was < .003 and only on the end where there is a longish span.
Then is with the leak? I assumed it would have been head warpage so I went back to the head gasket shown above. In this pic as well as the one above you can see the 3 layers.

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And this looks like the place it was leaking. Look on inside of the far left piece where my thumb is. You can see the white residue left where it leaked. But why didn't it leak between the adjacent layer?


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When I tried pull that layer apart it resisted so ran my knife blade in and separated that layer until I saw this bead of mastic as shown below. And the place it leaked is missing that sealant.

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What would cause the gasket sealant to be missing? This is where my thoughts are leading me. If I'm placing that system under a constant pressure greater than what they were intended to see then this might happen. Remember that engine originally had 2 inlets on the radiator for the 2 lines running off each head. That sounds like a system with excellent flow qualities and very, very low head pressure. I use the OEM (1.1 atm /16.16psi) radiator cap and it used to spit several ounces into a catch can before I moved up to a larger dual core radiator. So what did the pressure spike to in those time it did spit water? Or the times that the discharge line was capped off the first 1000 miles? Who knows? Given this I'm going to run 1.25 or 1.375 lines beneath the floor pans in hopes of reducing head pressure to an acceptable level. Awaiting gasket set now.

Nope, nope and NO. I'm NOT going to comment at all. I really want to but I can see you have your hands full and won't have time to tell me to eff off. Sorry about the trouble Kent. I've had carb issues since RT66 but the damn airplane is taking all my time now.

Subaru Effed up......that's the answer.

Oh, so that's why you don't get head leaks in aircooled motors, no corrosion?

Yup, that friggin fuel injection. Why didn't they stick with carbs?

Kent, the delaminated part was the center cylinder? The discolored part on the gasket in the top photo? Any time it overheated? That's the usual cause of failed head gaskets, not pressure, but you usually also get warped heads, so it's a little odd. If so I'd say consider yourself lucky, put it back together with the Cometic gaskets, don't overheat it again and you should be good. If not then maybe there's something specific to that motor, so maybe post the photos in one of the Subaru forums. I don't think many of the folks here have much watercooled experience.

Yes, the center cylinder. Yes, it hit "H" once but just barely. Not enough to boil any water out though. Yeah, I'm going to throw it back together and holler Shit. We'll see what happens. May be a little experimenting here on my part but one can afford to do so with these engines as they are so affordable. I made an offer on another low mileage 3.0 to keep as a spare. This one is nearing 200K. The comments from the peanut gallery are cool. I own one with a 40 yo air cooled engine as well and I actually "do know" the difference between it vs. the Suby 6. I'm sure I don't have to tell you the difference though, Paul. BTW, I am driving Whitey today when I visit another member. I'm sure that will motivate me to get Kugel on the road again; quickly.

So...we're getting new hoses then ?

Hey get some of this for the oil pump. It's pretty good sh&t. Very similar to that Honda stuff. RTV with vibration resistance.

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You might have it already.

I agree with DB, switch to carbs. Or at least write a poem about it.

The engine has 185k and the last 20k were "spirited" miles. It's 14 years old. This is no big deal . Now it'll go another 200k+

Kent you may want to check with Bob on how he did his EZ30 setup. We could not get that car's temp above 175 even when we drove it hard. It was completely warmed up when we left his house. Just the connections to/from the engine and the water inlets is what you want to think about.

Huh, now that you mention it I wonder how many T4 motors have gone 200K miles without having the heads off. Anybody know of any?

Yeah, I bought another WRX engine as a spare too. Couldn't pass it up, 49K miles (I saw the odometer) and 230 horsepower for six hundred bucks? How can you go wrong?

Oh, that's right, the corrosion. Crap, I forgot, we're all gonna die! [Hi Rich!! ]