Hello all,

Its been awhile since i've posted, but with my last final at school today ill have more time for teener activities.

So to give a little bit of back story, the 914 was built by fat performance back in 94 or 96 and it was punched to a 2.3 converted to duel webber IDF 44s, some head work done, I believe just opened up the ex and in a little bit.

motor only has about 15,000 miles on it since the build. it sat for about 10 years from the course of 2004-2014, didn't start it, nothing. didn't even loosen the valves to take pressure off the springs.

car got a valve adjustment from glen in Compton, valves sounded good after that and about 1000-1500 miles later they started ticking again. (I learned of his reputation on this board so I assumed he didn't do it properly) then I took the car to Gus at Euro motor works and had him do the valves as well as a couple other things.

fast forward another 1000-1500 miles later and its ticking again, it sounds like its coming from cylinder number 3 or 4.

my theory is that cylinder 3 or 4 was stuck on the intake or exhaust stroke with the spring compressed for 10 years causing some excess slack for the valve.

has anyone dealt with this problem before? or anyone have any theories as to what it could be?

TIA

Well,

Gus could figure this out or you can take off the rocker assembly and measure things up. You can test the springs and measure the tops of the valves to see if one or more of the seats have settled.
Also, with dual springs, which you may have (it was a thing back then) you may have a spring seat issue.

You did not mention the pushrods or the lifters and camshaft but all of that comes into question.

I've seen chromoly pushrods mushroom out where the tip is pressed in. This is usually on the cheaper sets, but causes what you're describing.. valves are good for about 1,000 miles until the tip continues to wear into the pushrod itself.. easily checked by removing the rocker assembly.

I have no doubts that Gus would figure this out. I trust the guy to work on my car and have referred a couple people his way as he does a great job.

The reason I came here to ask for some guidance rather then drive out to Gus is, well frankly, why most people ask mechanical related questions on a car forum. To save some money and become more familiar with their car.

But, thank you for the tips. I'll have to start tearing into her this weekend. Anybody else have any suggestions as to what it might be?

Thank you,
Corey

Does the clatter change as the engine warms up?

Pull valve covers
Pull rocker assembly, keep track of orientation for forensics.

Put a straight edge across the tops of the valves.
Examine each spring, or set of for broken springs etc.
Examine each push Rod.

I would also check all the valve adjustments before digging into the issue to see if you can isolate a bad noisy one...

It does not, it stays consistent from cold all the way to hot. I warm it up in an ally by my house and can hear the ticking coming from the pass. Side.

Thank you very much. I will start with these points.
Cheers

Attached are photos of cylinder number 4 rocker arm, note that number 4 exhaust is beginning to flatten and mushroom. I'm assuming it's ether beaten it's self to death from being out of adjustment, or it's getting a hell of a lot of resistance from the spring or the guide isn't letting it go down smoothly.

After thinking for a while more I've come to consider a partially dropped seat? Or maybe a partially stuck valve from sitting so long?

Any suggestions on what to do next?

Those adjusters are shot,could be cheap replacement ones or just plan worn out,I have seen this happen if the valves have been set loose for sometime also.
Replace them after checking everything previously mentioned,could it be that the valve springs are to heavy or are they becoming coil bound on full opening ,this eventually causes the inner spring to break.

I was/am new to 914 and did not want to adjust valves yet.
So took to Porche shop and have timing and valves set.
Valves were quiet but not for very long,motor seemed to run hot also.(always did).

Finally decided to check timing myself,was not correct,also adjusted valves per Captain guidelines.

Now I know what my car supposed to run like.
Quiet lifters,lots of power,runs so much cooler,and can accellerate great.
After you get new hardware do the timing and valves yourself.

I would highly recommend that you pull all your rockers off and replace ALL the adjusters in favor for real 911 adjusters. They are a lot kinder to SS valves (which are fairly soft) and hold their adjustment very well since they have such a wide face like the valve stem. You will need to remove about .060" from the under side of the rockers to make room for the taller adjusters and will need to re-check/set rocker geometry (and all that, that entails), but you'll be done with it and never look back.

My .02 FWIW. . .

Thank you all for the guidance! it is much appreciated. the next step will be to drop the drivetrain so I can remove the passenger side head and examine what the internals reveal.

Stay tuned as this will be my first time removing the engine give me at least a week for updates.

Thank you all again

What is worrying to me is the fact that right when I pulled the valve cover off I noticed immediately that number 4 cylinders adjuster was 3-5 threads further in (making up for slop somewhere) and the last person to adjust the valves didn't find it concerning. But oh well, I'll turn it into a learning experience.

That won't really work unless you've got the early rocker arms. I'm not completely sure, but those look like the later (fatter) ones to me.

--DD

Good call Dave. You may need to upgrade to 1.7L adjusters w/ the 8mm adjusters if those are the larger 9mm type. Basically if it takes a 14mm wrench to loosen the jam nut, you have the late style larger rockers. If the jam nuts have a 13mm hex, then you're in there like swim wear and you just need to upgrade the adjusters and modify the rockers. If you need/want a set of 1.7L rockers, I have a few sets that I can modify for the 911 adjusters. Just PM me if you need a set.

I will take a look when I get home today, thank you very much for the offer. I may just take you up on that!

so basically If I have the 13mm jam nut I have no need to look further as my problem is sitting right on the head. or on my parts table ( kitchen table since I'm single )
but if I have the 14 mm I need to keep tearing into her?

Before you pull the head, have you tried the put a straight edge along the top of the valves?

I just ran a straight edge across. It hits cylinder 3 in. And ex. And it hovers a cunt hair over the ex on 4 and hits the in. on number 4

What would be the next step?

Thank you again for helping me out.

I've got the 14 mm adjusters, so from what I understand this is what I want?

See, I would not pull the head till I knew why I was doing it.

Heads get worked on, valve seats get ground, it's entirely possible they sit at different heights . So a small difference would not concern me.

Now I would go for a leak down test to see if one valve was leaking.

You may just need to setup the valve geometry correctly with proper length push rods and it may shut up for you. It could also be a camshaft that is flattening which means you need to dig to figure that out.

I would do a leak down test.
If nothing glaring in the results, get new push rods, 1.7 liter rocker arms and 911 swivel foot adjusters and setup your geometry correctly.

Leak down test will be next on the list.

As for the pushrod lengths, how would I know which is the proper length? And geometry?

I don't believe the cam to be flattening as the opposing pistons ex. valve look spot on.

But thank you for the guidance, you're the man. If I ever see you at a meet I'll buy you a pitcher or two.

Do a search on google for valve geometry on a type 4.

After reading on setting geometry it makes me believe that the geometry has always been off.

Attached is the picture before I removed the rockets from the head. Look how much number 4 ex was adjusted in.

No arguement from me.
Stock geometry is not optimum so a modified set of head with stock push rods and who knows what camshaft will need this corrected

I'm sorry if I come off as completely stupid, but I apparently need someone to hold my hand.

Would the next step be to replace the adjuster, and set the geometry then do a leak down to confirm the seats are good. And see if they hold?

I would do the leak down first to see what issue you may have before investing time and money into the valve train.

If you pass, move on to buying new adjusters, rocker arms, and push rods.

If you fail, decide what to do....it could mean a rebuild.

Thank you again
I'll get the leak down test going this weekend and report back.

Welp, that took longer then expected. The leak down test showed everything is good. So I dropped the motor this weekend and pulled the pushrod from cylinder 4 exhaust side. And low and behold the foot on the cam side of the pushrod was loose and was getting hammered into its self causing the pushrod to mushroom and that's why the adjuster was getting a work out.

I'm torn between just replacing that pushrod( with another aluminum one) and replacing that adjuster with the stock ones and cross my fingers it won't happen again.

Or get chromoly pushrods and 911 elephant foot adjusters and not have to worry about it.

I would just put and new push rod in and new adjusters with new lock nuts. Adjust the valves and let it go.

Aluminum pushrods? They don't even look like the heavy wall T4 pushrods.

You need to get the good Manton pushrods like in the link below:

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Manton-3-8-Ch...y-push-rods.htm

What Mark said. Then you can adjust your valveus using the Braille method.

Carlos

I'll bet their steel. Use a magnet to check. I've got some low mileage push rods. If you want one PM me. I'm in the Temecula area. Kent