Although I have had my 914 for several years, I have done all work on my own so have not had to use any dealers or specialists. Following the removal / reinstall of my engine along with new clutch, rebuilt trailing arms, brakes, fuel lines, etc. I brought it to a respected shop to have them do the wheel alignment, set the timing, and give the car a general going over.

The good news is that they just called and it is at last ready for pick up (has been about 3 weeks). I'll admit that I was glad to be sitting down when I asked for the total damages .... wait for it ... $2,200 and change.

In fairness I can not yet say if I got a great deal, a fair deal, or got hosed. The person who called said there is a pretty long list of things they attended to. So, until I see the list and see how everything came out I can neither praise or criticize the shop. I am however going, OK how do I split the payment so that the spouse does not know what I just spent.

Will be picking her up tomorrow.

really need to see that list
maybe once they finished the alignment...they spend another 16ish hours working on your car, maybe around $110 an hour
unless parts jacked the price up if you needed some

I don.t quite understand the point of your thread.

Where I come from any BAR shop would give you an estimated cost before they start work. If it turns out to be than estimated then you would have to agree to it first.

Why are you surprised? Did that not happen?

Always always always make them okay work. Anytime you drop off at a shop give them a specific list of work & get a quote for it. Any changes they have to call & check it's okay to do. Otherwise you will end up with surprises. $100 big deal $1000 you aren't expecting shouldn't happen period. After a few surprises like this. I am very specific anytime I take my car to a shop. Especially a shop I have never used. A blanket get this working is asking to get kicked in the nuts

Btw....a four wheel alignment goes for around $450 to $500.

I did mine in my garage. Learned how to do it here.

I thought about 350/400...but it's been a while....

Some of my customers say "just fix it and call me when it's done". I insist on getting back to them with an estimated cost. Some don't care, some do, but every ones threshold for pain is different and should be respected.
Also, here in NY if you signature is NOT on the repair order, you can be very difficult with that shop. Without a signature or some sort of telephone authorization ie last 4 of ss# or date of birth, you are not financially responsible for the repairs due to lack of authorization. I'd hate to think anyone would intentionally screw a repair shop that may be trying to do the right thing, but was misunderstood. Good Luck. Hope it works out.

At my dealership we charge $250 for an alignment. $350 if I'm doing a race alignment on a GT3. Estimates are always given before work starts.

For those of us that don't have the time to do all the work I think you have to find a shop that you can trust. I had Brad Mayuer at 914 LTD do a huge amount of work on my car, with more to be done as the paint and bodywork is finished. He did a great job in discussing my vision and goals for the car and then covering all the things it needed, along with prices. I never was shocked by anything I didn't know about or expect when it came time to pay the bill, and I can't say enough about the quality of work that he and Michael do there.

If you are not doing all the work yourself you need to find someone like them!

ok, $500.00 for alignment, but $1500.00 to time it. did the car run when when you brought it in, was the engine in the car?

They had the car for 3 weeks for that amount of work? And you never called to check in? And you gave them a blank check to go through everything. Poor communications leads to bad surprises. Bad on both parties

I haven't had my 914 aligned yet but my other cars are usually around $80 for a four wheel alignment. What am i missing?

Brett

.......SOS(symbol of success)if you ever get a 911....LOOK OUT :idea
.....or any other P-car

Porsche's take some time. We've spent 3-4 hours doing an initial corner balance/alignment on a 911.

I was thinking of taking my car directly to the Porsche dealer when the time comes because i have been doubting that Sears or Mavis tire would even know what they were doing. Guess i will have to have my wallet at the ready.

Brett

No to the dealer unless you're flush. Ask the local members. There's usually a good 914 shop around that will treat you fair and do good work.

It's all about finding the right shop. Some places will hose you.
For example, I've got an RMS leak I've been nursing and I normally do all my own work and enjoy the process of learning how to do jobs I've never done on my car, but I'm slammed with real jobby-job work right now and just don't have the time for that big of a job. I called around just to get an idea what it would cost. Road Scholars in Durham said it would take ~15 hours labor and cost ~$1600. I called Black Forest Racing, and they said they could do it in a few hours for ~$300. Sold!
Someday I'll do that job myself when I have a weekend to spend on my first transaxle pull. But for the time being, calling around was worth it.

Yeah, the rest of these guys are fuchin Nuts!

Your local Porsche dealer might differ but ours doesn't know any more about our 45 year old cars than the kids at autozone. They service new cars and cary new car parts. If I need an oil cooler for an 80's 911, they have to order it and that's a part that covers about a 35 year span. they don't keep it on the shelf to service their own customers.

Sounds like Bay Area prices to me. Its the wild west here...and by wild...I mean expensive.

Always get a written estimate - be very specific about the work you want done.

Sticker shock! A few months ago I too experience a similar situation.
I dropped my Avant S4 at my local Audi dealer.
For what I thought was going to be a pleasant experience...really never used the dealer that much.
Talked to my friend the service mgr to just fix a few items.
I wanted a new thermostat, water pump replace ..due to age and miles. They came back and mentioned that the coolent tank was leaking and the serpentine belt needed changing...funny as I had that replaced two years ago..oh then they mentioned that the oil pan was leaking...I used to do all the oil changes and never experienced any oil in the driveway....
Never again! I this little experience cost me $4200

That sounds more like a corner balance which would include the 4 wheel alignment. I used to pay $100 using Slits guy but he went to work for Ford and I'm pretty sure they don't want my 914 in there. Next thing on my list is to learn how to DIY.

You are correcto mundo....that included a full corner balance as well.

That be a reputable shop here im SoCal. No one reputable should touch a teener front end that had my crummie decrepid tie rods.

Eric S convinced me iit was easy. It was. I can be hired for some ice cold Peroni's

Like I said, I will reserve judgement until I see the list. A few things I know they did beyond the alignment and timing.

I did speak to them a few times. It was almost a week before it got into the shop at all. A second delay came as they were backed up with other work and I gather had a resto project tied up in the alignment lift getting belly pans or something.

Installed new turbo tie rod kit that I provided.

Indicated that the level of front and rear were not right and had to adjust torsion bars to bring back to spec (something like that anyhow).

Found exhaust leak(s) so removed those tins and installed new exhaust nuts.

I apparently did not properly tighten my new Tangerine Shift Adjuster tight enough on the shift rod so the rod popped out and they had to reinstall and adjust. Probably had to remove the console for that.

Had them check and correct as needed adjustment for things like thermostat, clutch cable, brake adjustment , etc.

Tightened up a bunch if loose "stuff".

They did call and let me know that the aftermarket rear sway bar ends were hitting the shocks. That also explained the mystery clunk that I never figured out. A bit of work there as he was going to remount it further back which I suspect involves dropping the muffler as well.

He also did indicate that after doing alignment they drove it but after everything like the new trailing arms settled they had to redo it. Did I get charged x2 for the alignment, don't know yet. Hope not as you would think they would have made sure everything was tight and settled prior to the alignment. If so, I guess that is a few hundred right there.

On a plus side, I am confident that they really do know the 914 and have a lot of experience with them. Don't know the labor rate but it does "feel" like a lot of hours. I'll share the details tomorrow when I know more. My 911 colleague joked that that is about the price of an oil change and air filter at Manhattan Motors.

Sounds like they caught some things that should make you feel confident using the car. Yeah.. likely all labor rates.. $100-200/hr? If you like the work and feel good about the car, just pick it up and go enjoy it! Summer will be gone soon...

Why post about something negative you paid somebody else to do?

Drive the car and enjoy life!

Yup, that's why I am keeping an open mind until I see the bill and get the car. Like I said earlier, could be a great deal, a fair deal, etc. certainly more than I expected but hopefully it seems like money well spent after a good drive. Stay tuned!

There is 2 types of work at the dealer. The warranty stuff that pays crap that goes to the newbies, and the paying customers that the seniors keep and know how to get themselves paid. NEVER approve additional work unless you see it in person, but it is 90% of the time a stretch of the truth to fatten up the paycheck.

Our "best" tech would straight up lie. An old leaking radiator cap would be a cracked radiator. An oil drip from spillage would be some seal, and we had extra seals to show the damage and "replacement". The Service Writer would profile the customer and tell us to fatten or blow off the 40 point inspection.

An independent specialty shop is the way to go. A good mechanic will stick to one make because it's easier to fix things you've seen before. The generic shops usually hire the ones not qualified for better places.

Write the check and drive the car.

Not the cost of Porsche ownership, just the cost of any car ownership when you give a shop a blank check.

Have you had personal experience with this shop? I've seen many reputable shops take advantage of customers, do poor work, or throw their apprentice techs on the "low end" 914s. Check it all out, drive it, then write the check based on your evaluation. Hopefully you will be happy on the drive home.

Thank God for Chris at Tangerine Racing!!

dam good advice

Sorting out issues can be a large project. I'm hoping the net result will be a nice driving car. That may be worth the $$

OK, so I picked up the car and paid the bill.

First off, between the work I did when I dropped the engine, and the work they did afterward, a 40 minute drive made it all seem worthwhile. It is running / driving better than it ever has and is probably as close to a new 914 experience as one can get 40 years later. The clunks, fuel smells, stumbles, missed shifts from before all this work have all vanished.

In looking at the bill, they did do a lot of work and the individual items add up fast. The last item, which I did authorize, was adjusting the rear sway bar. I gather they heated it it with torch and bent the ends so that it is more like factory bar. That bit alone was $500. Alignment was $400 of it. Of course the state of PA also feels entitled to skim 6% off the total bill in return for, um, taxes.

A few items seemed a bit high such as resetting the master cylinder safety switch given that the front tins were already off for wheel alignment. Still, it seems that all the work done was top notch, they addressed a lot of things, and it now runs great. I can now focus on driving rather than repairs or related bills!

My other build thread outlines all of the work I did before bringing it to the shop. Here is the breakdown of the work they performed. Back to my original question of great deal, fair deal, etc. I am honestly still not sure but it is what it is and for now I am going to simply enjoy the ride.



Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Labor on many items looks high to me.
Over 45 minutes to adjust the thermostat cable?
2 hours to tighten the exhaust? Really? The only way exhaust fitment work should take that long is if there were stud issues.
I can't imagine needing 5 hours to correct the anti-sway bar. 3 hours would be a lot, and I sure hope no one used a torch on the heat treated bar.
I hope there were lots of little things done which never got onto the invoice.

they definitely rounded up on a lot of those things. They also charged you $50 to fill up your gas tank? gas must be really expensive in your area...

and add to that, after that bill you are having that other issue you just posted about. Id be pissed

Got to thinking about it now that Foley posted....


Next time take it to him....you arebin PA.

One hour to set timing? Takes under 5 minutes. Half hour to adjust clutch? 3 minutes. 55 minutes to center steering wheel? Takes five minutes on a road test after alignment and it's always included in an alignment. Two hours to replace 8 exhaust nuts? That's nuts! All of these items should be done in under 3 hours with 3 beer breaks. You got screwed. I'd be pissed.

Btw, I pay$80.00 for a 4 wheel alignment.

Glad they got your car running well...but wow. A bunch of those charges are egregious! 80 bucks for a 5 minute thermo cable adjustment?? Looks like they charged for every fix a la carte, rather than just billing for the total of hours. Not illegal, but certainly not as fair as they could or should be. I'd call them and ask why they didn't just charge for time spent. Maybe they'll cut you a break and do the right thing.

$250.00 to install two tie rods, that seems awfully high with you suppling parts. as the others have said, its quite a punch list, seems high. but the results somewhat justify the bill, if the car is better than ever

They either gave it to someone who had to learn how to work on an old VW or they doubled the labor times. Some of those charges tell me they billed you for the mechanic forgetting to do stuff right the first time, like centering the steering wheel during the alignment.

Everybody pays for knowledge in some way. Don't blow too much of your time and energy on it moving forward.

1st agree to an initial price for diagnosis. Anything over and above that original amount must be authorized buy owner before continuing.

We had the same issue with one of our more current model year DD's.

Had the vehicle towed into the dealer we purchased from. They were authorized by me to diagnose, anything more had to be authorized before continuing.

Work ended up being major (spun main bearing on a 5.7 liter Lexus)

Dealer proceeded to do remainder of teardown without our authorizing anything more than the getting us a Diagnosis.

They called at the point where they wanted to know if we wanted a new long block at a parts cost of around 10,300.00 or a engine out of a total with around 15,000 miles on it for 8,500.

Keep in mind the vehicle is now in the shop with the engine and tranny already removed.

We told the dealer we would not pay for anything past the authorization, and furthermore required the vehicle be put back to the condition it was when the tow company dropped it off. By this time they could not because they had sent many of the parts in as cores, or as they said, had lost them.

The dealer said No.

We called the regional service manager based in Chicago, told them of our experience, and after 1 week for investigation we received a phone call saying we would have our vehicle back with a new engine and related parts installed by weeks end......No charge.

Hope you do too.

After talking to the dealerships service advisor when we picked up the vehicle, he said "no hard feelings" "this happens from time to time" "we have shop insurance for these type of issues"

So just by following these few simple rules (keep in mind at a dealership shop) and contacting the correct people in the chain we came out with a successful outcome.

Well, I imagine the response would be that they did a lot of other "stuff" that they did not charge for. What that might be, who knows. No point stressing over it at this point, enjoy the car and lessons learned. I am certainly glad I did a lot of the "heavy lifting work" before hand or the bill may have exceeded the car's value.

I think one thing all service providers need to keep in mind these days is the power of social media. Customers can and do share their experiences both good and bad. In the long term, that will have a big impact on your reputation and your business prospects. You do not have to be the cheapest game in town but you do need to have high quality and be fair in your dealings with customers. Certainly charge a premium for quality work and skill but do not charge 3 hours if it really takes 1 hour. If you are backed up and do not get to the vehicle for a week after it was dropped off for a scheduled appointment then mark that thermostat adjustment (or something) as no charge.

Shops like Tangerine are extremely well respected for both the quality of their work and products but also for treating their customers fairly. Someone recently posted about their great experience at Tangerine and how their car was finished the same day they brought it in. I thought of that recently as I had scheduled an appointment with the shop I used 3 weeks prior yet it took a week before they even looked at the car and was a total of nearly three weeks by the time it was ready. While Tangerine is a good 3-4 hours from me, if I knew I had major work to do I would not hesitate, in the future, to load the 914 on the trailer and haul it up there. Would I use the shop I went to again? While they did good work, probably not.

Absolutely right that there's no need to stress or regret. The most important thing is that your car is on the road (more than many can say) and you're happy with the work. In the end, a few bucks one way or the other wont make or break anything. Hell..I paid Manhattan motors 600 bucks to flush the brakes and change the oil on my cayman before I felt comfortable doing it myself...but it was super convenient and done well. There are always less expensive options, but cost is only part of the equation.

Totally agree that social media gives a much needed voice to consumers. It probably does more harm than good to society as a whole, but that's a different thread .

I think I'm the one you referenced about my experience with chris at tangerine. If you're only 3 hours away, I'd definitely send the car to him. Either drive it, or if you have AAA platinum, I think you get 1 free 200 mile tow every year. As I mentioned in my other post, Chris is that rare combination of knowledge, skill, speed and fairness. (And, no I'm not on his payroll!). Just someone who knows the real deal when I see it.

Enjoy the car!