I've had my car for about two years first year -what I call the year of living dangerously
I drove it whenever the weather allowed including a 914 weekend in the talimena hills
after a brokenclutch cable clevis it's been wheels in the air for close to a year I've been cleaning the engine and trans and suspension arms and cv's/axles and shocks & springs and engine tin I can reach of 40+ years of grease and dirt -a bunch of it likely from the leaking cv's which I'm sure I'll ask about soon in another thread
so here's my question for this thread:
my rear valence has one 'big' dent in it and couple small wrinkles in the bottom 1/4" or so 'return' flange that defines the bottom edge
pics following

having never done any kind of body work before this seems fairly straight forward to repair
what are the minimal tools required?
what kind of results could reasonably be expected?
could I (easily)screw it up beyond repair?

thanks for any comments or suggestions
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cjl

Take it off, put it in your kids sandbox and shape the end of a chunk of 2x4 a little rounded and pound it out.
you should get it pretty close this way, then a little body filler

I'm no expert, but I was able to pound out some dents in my chrome bumper with surprising results. I used a rag and a board so I did not damage the chrome. Watch some youtube videos for tips. The sandbox idea is a good one.

You can do it.

Find a block of hardwood shape it as you need and work on it,softwood what ever you use is a waste of time,you will get there,

how about using two 2x6's

place wood clamps at points A and B and place the the whole thing

in your bench vise at point C tighten until you get the bottom line

straight. buy the body work hammers from harbor freight, relatively cheap.

and use them for the final work... U tube for tips on hammering.

the part in the middle will most likely be stretched? so you might

have to do some metal shrinking.
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thanks for the encouragement and suggestions

I will give it a shot this weekend probably using a variety of the methods mentioned here
will report back with any progress (or disasters!)


cjl

You could go dual exhaust!!!!

$26 PROfessional tools from Harbor Freight might help....

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ha! trust me I thought about that, glad I'm not the only one
it's really close to be almost perfectly symmetrical with the existing exhaust cut out as far as location goes
but I think I'll just try to return it to stock for now


cjl

having never done any kind of body work before this seems fairly straight forward to repair
what are the minimal tools required?
-hammer, not claw, and something to hit against

what kind of results could reasonably be expected?
-perfect if you skim a light film of bond over the end result. probably 1/16 in or so thick with no experience.

could I (easily)screw it up beyond repair?
- I doubt it.

As you pound out the dent avoid squeezing it tight against the anvil. If you here a distinct click as the hammer hits it is striking the anvil through the metal. That stretches. So hit to move the dent and bend the metal back into shape. As long as you aren't pinching the metal you are probably shrinking or at least not ruining it. Read. Your's looks like mine did a couple months ago. Close to perfect now.

well a cheap set of harbor freight tools, a sand bag and several hours of pissing my neighbors off later I am here:

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I'm pretty happy with the results so far but still have a ways to go
here's a question though, I have gotten the big deep dent fairly well pounded out but you can kinda see in the pic below there's a long sweeping "dent" or pushed in area as a result of the main dent

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I'm having a hard time getting it back into shape. I'm not sure how to attack such a large area to get it to line up better

any suggestions are welcome and here's some progress pics -pretty boring but I know y'all like pictures

I'm at my space limit so progress pics to follow

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cjl

Are you using a hammer and dolley or just the hammer and sand bag? For dents like these I don't use sand bags, but strictly hammer and dolley and have good results.

I've been using both so far
I started using hammer & dolly on the small wrinkles in the bottom flange based on the first in last out principle I figured those wrinkles were incident to the major dent and that went pretty well
then I moved on to the big main dent but wasn't having much luck really moving any metal with dolly and body hammer so I moved on to sand bag a BFH to get the main dent pushed back out and then worked it a little with body hammer and bag and dollies

I will quit with the sandbag
I've watched a handful of u tube vids and think I get the general idea and off dolly hammering in concept but I guess not in practice

so I need to push out on the low side from behind with the dolly and hammer on the outside or just the opposite put the dolly on the outside and hammer it from behind

thanks for the advice


cjl

Your doing real well cjl,

Very good work!

To answer your question, you need to work the metal from both sides with a good planishing hammer (not a lump or ball peen) and dolly. As said before, forget the sandbag.

It looks a simple damage repair and I'd guess you'll not need a shrinking hammer, just the basic tools.

The trick is to do it nice and slow and progressively. Better to hit numerous times with a light blow than a few with a heavy blow.

Knock and work a dent from the convex side, then flip to the other side only to finely adjust.

A good beginners trick is to use a large woodworkers G clamp with some small wood blocks to ease out dents before the hammer, or with metal blocks to flatten creases on edge returns or flanges. Be careful with any corners on wooden and metal blocks, as well as your dolly as you can hammer in a new crease easily if you catch the sides.
Also it's a skill to hold the hammer face flat to the panel as you can create "half crowns" (When I was a very young lad learning coppersmithing and panel beating my teacher used to beat us for every half crown we put in a job) A half crown was an old UK coin just about the size of a quarter, and it was the nick-name for the imprint of the hammer head in the material if we'd not hit the job squarely.

Once you get it back to shape you can move to a nylon mallet and light multiple hits with the dolly to finish smooth.

Check out day 93 here on my build for inspiration from my valance dent removal.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...47250&st=40

Good luck, you're doing great so far!

thanks Darren
I was kinda hoping you would chime in here. I have read your entire build thread (speaking of very good work) and that was one of the things that motivated me to try my hand at it that and staring at it every time I got under my car but I will revisit day 93

thanks for the advice I will try some of those techniques and although I am much more well versed in woodworking (I can build any thing you want with wood and a saw & make that mother scratcher look good) I am a bit hesitant to try clamping for some of the reasons you mentioned.

the majority of my hammering I have done with a body hammer that has about a 3 cm square slightly domed head on one side and a long flat rounded over blade that's about 3cm by ~.5 cm on the other I don't think I've crowned anything too badly yet

it's still over 100* (36* C)at 6:30 here and sun's beaming right into my garage so if it cools down enough before it gets too late I will smack on it some more tonite if not it may have to wait til the weekend


cjl

I could use some of your weather.

Its 8am here, when I woke and went down to the garage a couple of hours ago it was 3C / 37F now its made it to 9C / 48F and just because its our Summer time its expected to make a dizzy 20C / 68F in the high heat of mid afternoon! (thats if it doesn't rain of course)

Don't play down your skills, you look like you have the abilities and aptitude to do great things, have confidence in them.

thanks for the support Darren I'll split the difference in weather temps with you anytime between mid-May and mid-September if we can work it out

I did get a chance to do a little more hammering tonight no pics as it got too dark but I feel like I have done quite a bit of good and some bad

I've gotten the bottom much closer back to the original shape with a bit yet to go I have also put a few dings and high spots in it but I think I can work those down after I get the bottom shaped right

I'll have some work to do on the return flange as Ive flattened it out a bit to make moving the metal in the ~90 plane on the wide side a bit easier

one question regarding the bottom return flange:
there are three support 'brackets' on the backside of the valance two 'vertical' ones about 3cm wide at equidistant midpoints and one about 20cm that mirrors the muffler cut out for backside support. At several spots where the flange meets these brackets to varying degrees it looks like the flange is either mis-shapened around those bracket connections or the brackets themselves are out of alignment. Anybody else notice this? I haven't had much luck moving both layers of metal but I haven't worked them much -still concentrating on the main problem area


cjl

,looks good from what I can see.

thanks -tub it's getting there


cjl

"one question regarding the bottom return flange:
there are three support 'brackets' on the backside of the valance two 'vertical' ones about 3cm wide at equidistant midpoints and one about 20cm that mirrors the muffler cut out for backside support. At several spots where the flange meets these brackets to varying degrees it looks like the flange is either mis-shapened around those bracket connections or the brackets themselves are out of alignment. Anybody else notice this?"

Can you post a couple of pictures so that we can compare yours with our brackets. Thanks

here's a couple pics of what I'm talking about

below are the brackets I'm talking about 2 spaced midway and 1 around the muffler cut-out
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below you can see some of the issues I'm talking about around the support brackets I imagine I can help them out with some more patient smacking
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and below is shot of one of the vertical brackets that I've already done some work on but you can still see the bracket doesn't appear to sit true to the line of the valance

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let me know what ya think I smacked on it a bit more tonight but just a half hour of work right after the sun went below the trees left me wringing wet -we're supposed to get some temperature relief on the weekend but supposed to be accompanied by rain as well

I like seeing these pics myself, I can see some issues in the pics that are harder to notice staring right at the actual piece


cj

Thanks, posting the pictures saves a 1000 words!

The two vertical brackets look as if they’ve been ever so slightly twisted from the original impact.
The very first and last picture, to me, show the centre vertical bracket slightly twisted anti clockwise.
You could initially try pressing the lower return lip where the bracket attaches in a metal vice (where the metal is 2 layers thick) and gently work the length of the “flat” section of this return lip from left to right. Place a couple of bolts through the slotted fixing hole, use a bolt shank if you can (free from thread) or two drill bit shanks that are a tight fit. This will keep the slots perfectly aligned while you crush press the return flange back in shape.
If you have a couple of bits of similar gauge steel off-cuts, place them each side of the bracket on the return lip while pressing for a better result.

The bracket over the muffler cut out is a little more complicated but a similar fix can be made. It looks again as if the two layers (valance & bracket) have slipped/moved upwards.
Again you need to use two tight fitting bolts or drill bits in the slotted hole first to locate the two pieces before you begin to work the return lip.
Once the fixing slot is aligned you can gently tap the return back to shape. You can do this with a “teardrop” dolly or over the end of any metal pipe or metal bar of similar diameter or anything solid with a close (but slightly smaller diameter than the job). Alternatively you can gently pinch the two return lips back close to shape with long nose molegrip pliers using some bits of aluminium scrap as jaw guards. This is a long winded way but possible with patience.
Once the two return lip edges have been worked back into shape you can take the two bolts or drill bits out the slotted holes and they should be aligned. Again you could put a small tack or spot weld at the slotted hole (when the bolts/drill bits are in) to positively secure bracket to valance if you so wished.

Good luck

thanks Darren, good advice & good explanation
I will work those into the repair/reshaping
I can't promise as much daily progress as you on your build but I will keep hammering away -always wanted to use that one


cjl