The car is 1972 914 with 2.0L recently installed. Idles fine but, from 3.5K RPM onward, the car feels like it’s down on power. It gets sluggish around 40mph and tops out at 50mph. Details below:

1974 longblock 2.0L from Craigslist
Supposedly ran when parked
Heads look like they've been rebuilt, possibly bottom end.
Previously carb'ed?
Unknown internals

1974 2.0L D-Jetronics parts bought together from eBay::
Intake runners
Manifold and airbox
Green injectors
Wiring
ECU
Manifold pressure sensor (eploxy seal on adjustment screw removed)
Temp sensor I & II
Auxiliary air valve and cold start valve
Distributor

New parts:
New Pertronix Igniter
All new vacuum hoses and hose clamps
New alternator
New cap, rotor, plugs, plug wires
New rear fuel lines

Car starts, idles and revs well when distributor rotated almost all the way to the right.To set correct timing (27* PTDC), distributor must be rotated all the way to the right, but car dies if not warmed up.

Valves adjusted to spec (.006 intake & .008 exhaust)
Compression test while cold (134, 131,132,137)
Have NOT checked fuel pressure
Have NOT checked vacuum
Have NOT adjusted TPS
Have NOT adjusted MPS (epoxy seal is broken though)
1.7L MPS makes it run even worse
Car ran fine when it has a 1.7L
No obvious vacuum leaks

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

to another NOVA guy.

Things I can think of off the top of my head:

-MPS not calibrated correctly
-Fuel starvation (fuel pressure, kinked/blocked lines, blocked fuel filter, dirty injectors)
-Vacuum advance not working
-Mismatched Fi components (e.g., ECU, MPS, etc.)
-Would a cam not compatible with FI do this?

I'm sure others have more/better ideas. I'd think I'd check fuel starvation issues first if the 1.7MPS makes it run worse.

I'm pretty close to you and am happy to help at some point. I'm not brilliant at this - but I am local and free of charge. I also have a spare MPS or can help calibrate yours as well.

Could it be the Throttle Position Sensor?

Thanks Rob. I may take you up on that. I'm going to test fuel pressure and calibrate the TPS tonight and if that doesn't turn up anything I'm officially stumped.

I'll keep you posted!

Sounds like your plug wires are one slot off on the diz cap. You are not getting full advance from diz. Show a pic of diz cap and tell us which wire is going to plug #1

my first inclination is timing, points gap and dwell. does sound like an advance/ lack of adequate advance issue. i would verify these first before trying to fine tune injection components.

I agree with Curt - let's see a picture of your plug setup on the dizzy.

Also, I just recall a thread from another local guy on Pelican a few weeks back. He was having the same trouble adjusting the dizzy far enough. He said he solved his problem by readjusting the pickup on his Pertronix (based on advice from Mr. Darling). I don't currently have Pertronix, so maybe someone else can comment.

Here's the thread on the Bird: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914...anced-help.html

PM me your contact info at some point if you want. Did you know Jim McLeod? He was a long time member here who passed away last year. Lived in Vienna...

Ok, tested fuel pressure, 32psi.


Here is the distributor and which cylinder they are going to. The second photo is at TDC.

Just reving the car in my garage, it only revs to about 4k if I hold my foot to the floor, then drop to about 3K. I have my 1.7 distributor sitting on my workbench. I know its not the right advance curve, but I might try that out tonight to see if that does anything.

Do you have a spare rotor than does not limit the revs? Try swapping it out if you do. Those rev-limiting rotors have been known to fail. Mine did even though it had less than 1K miles on it. Switched back to the old rotor and no issues.

i agree, change rotor to non limiting first. see if that improves the the advance.

also, if i am looking at the picture of the wire orientation correctly. (front of engine to the right) your order is wrong. #2 is where #1 should be.

Your post says 27 deg PTDC

It is 27 deg B (BEFORE) TDC with vac disconnected and plugged for a 1.7 & 2.0

if i a seeing this pic correctly, none of the wires are in the right place. 1 should be where 2 is. 4 should be where 1 is. 3 should be where 4 is and 3, well not in the middle. i am surprised it started at all. i would start all over and static time correctly, then put a light on it.

OK it's your firing order, make it look like this. Just move the wires on the Cap.
Then try it.
Click to view attachment

no offense garland, that aint right either

see over on the right, stamped zundefogle 1-4-3-2. thats the firing order. at tdc on compression the rotor will point at the #1 cylinder, diagonally left of #4 cylinder in the photo. that is #1, next wire in rotation should be #4 so on and so forth. having said that, if the drive pinion was removed and not re- indexed as it came out, it doesn't matter which cylinder you time first as long as the order remains the same.

OMFG. Make it run right before trying to see if you can get past 50mph. I can just see it.... foot to the floorboard, why can't I go faster?

STOP

Get things in order! Keep your foot out of it until you get it right.

Take a deep breath. Let's get it to a smooth <1000 idle first.

Take a giant step back .

Your firing order is correct ...
It is "clocked" wrong ...
Move each wire 1 spot Counter Clockwise ...
Move your advance somewhere closer to 27 deg BEFORE TDC

See your vac advance is on the wrong side of the oil fill bail wire.

Correct, that's what I was trying to say.

that'll work

Exactly why I posed the question.

-Rotated the plug wires counter clockwise. Won't start no matter the position of the distributor.
-Rotated the wires back to the original location. Started right up.
-Rotated the wires clockwise. With the distributor all the way country clock wise it barely ran with the idle screw open all the way. Didn't rev at all.
-Rotated back to the original position. Fired right up.

The plugs have to be in the right order. In the photo I posted, you can see the rotor is pointing to plug #1 when it's at TDC.

Non rev limiting rotor didn't help either. I have a 1.7 distributor I'm going to try next.

Thanks for the support!

still a timing issue. thats why i said static time it again after doing wires. set the engine at tdc on #1 compression. to do this, remove left rocker cover and all four plugs. rotate engine to tdc on the impellor mark, both rockers on #1 should be loose. the rotor should be pointing at the #1 cylinder.if it is not, with both rockers loose, you are going to have to re-clock the distributor. if it is, set your trigger. then replace dist cap, and follow the wire in the firing order. if you have to reclock the dist, you will need to pull the drive pinion and reset int his orientation. the dist tangs only fit in the drive one way.

When you have the distributor out to try the 1.7 distributor check the distributor drive gear angle.
Here is a link to a thread describing it.

Distributor Drive Gear Angle

Good Luck
Jim

Wait - is the 4 banger even supposed to be able to go over 50???







Sorry, couldn't resist.

When i rotated the plug wires, I rotated the distributor body to every position and it never worked.

I'm certain the plugs are in the right position and order. In that photo of the rotor:
-Rotor lined up with the notch on distributor body. Plug wire #1 on notch.
-"0" on the fan is lined up inside the V shaped the notch on the fan housing.
-#1 piston is at top of stroke (straw in to spark plug hole)
-Both valve for #1 are close (valve cover off)

Would a hot cam or high compression pistons throw everything off?

yes if the cam was not timed correctly at reassembly. but i am going from original post that the bottom end was stock.

1.7 distributor didn't help.

I'm going to recalibrate the TPS and if that doesn't help, then I'm going to drive 50mph to the nearest set of train tracks to leave it on...

Just unplug the tps to test. The car will run amazingly fine without it once it comes off idle.

Revs fine with it unplugged sitting in the garage, but it doesn't want to drive with it unplugged. Does that sound right?

Can I play?
Your timing may be wrong.

Hah you might be right, but I've tried everything. I'm close to breaking down and ordering a nice set of Webers...

Hey Rich, "you might be right." But he's tried everything. So naturally throwing carbs at it makes perfect sense. Smelling anything fishy yet?

right there with you, the pictures of the cap are definitely wrong.

Just looked again. The pic posted is about 25 degrees retarded. You could be right Rand. I'm getting real tired of being suspect of every new member. Wish admin would get rid of the shit head permanently

i'll bite one more time. the reasons is you car won't start when you rotate distributor counter clockwise is you knocked it out of time. once you have tdc on compression on #1 and you set your trigger, tighten the dist. and leave alone. do not "rotate it". now your rotor should be pointing at cyl #1. take all the wires off the cap, ok. clip the cap back on correctly. now. take wire from #1 and plug into cap where the rotor is pointing, going clockwise, next is #4 wire, next is #3 and finally #2. replug center wire to coil. you are now static timed. next, remove the plug from the fan housing and set up your timing light. loosen the collar on the distributor a little, not too much, you don't want "rotating" on its own. start the car, lay across the trunk and put your head in the engine bay so you can see the strobe though the aperture. now follow the books instructions for final timing to dial in the advance. lock up the collar on dist. you should have 27 degrees fully advanced at 3500 rpm, i believe. i run carbs currently and more advance. your original picture of your cap shows you 90 degrees out (one position on the cap. your "rotating the distributor" gets close enough to fire but you are 45 degrees off from being timed. thats why your car runs like shit. good luck.

OP and I have been in contact. He's local to me, and we're going to look at it together tomorrow to see if we can see what's going on. I know where you guys are coming from, but I think it's all good in this case. We'll report back and get more help as needed.

Thanks.

When that photo of the rotor, lined up with the notch, was taken, I was at TDC of #1. Confirm with plugs out and a straw into the plug hole. Confirmed with the "0" on the fan. Confirmed with the notch on the flywheel at that the top of the bell housing. Confirmed with the driver side valve cover off and making sure the valves were loose.

I just looked at my old 1.7, which ran fine, sitting in the corner of the garage and everything lines up exactly the same way as this troubled 2.0L. Even the plug positions.

Thank everyone for the continued support.

Honestly, you don't even need to know the firing order to get the plug wires in the right position. Follow this: Rotate the distributor clockwise until it stops. The cap plug ends should be near parallel with the cylinders. Near plug wires (battery side) should be placed front and back as they come off the cap. The opposite side swapped. Front to back and back to front. Done.

993, i don't follow that, i think i will stick to zundefogle

Correct, that's how it is now. I think their point is that if the distributor drive shaft was installed wrong, that would not be the case. I believe my shaft is installed right because it matches my old motor and all the photos I've found on the interwebz.

i think the whole rotating assembly wants to know the firing order. my hunch is, the cam timing, crank timing, valve timing and ignition timing is all somehow connected. i believe that is why the stroke of the crank, the profile of the cam and the eccentric of the distributor cam are machined the way they are. i don't think engineers arrive at these values by accident, i want to say, it is intentional.fwiw. but if guessing works for you as it obviously did for the engineers at vw, have at it and guess. hopefully beat navy will have some luck showing you this, and 993 , if i understand your method as explained, you will end up 2 wires on the wrong posts. so i think there is a reason that any auto engine i have ever worked on, the firing order is cast into it for anyone interested to see.

What am I guessing?

your guessing where your plug wires go , you are guessing at your timing, you are basing assumption that everything is installed correctly by looking at another engine that you took the dist. out of and assume you put it back correctly. your guessing. the beautiful thing about these engines is that there is no guessing, do it right and they run as designed.

lol I'm guessing you're not reading my posts. I've lined up all the correct marks by the books and can even set the timing at 27* with a timing light.

yeah, read all that, i also read that you must rotate the distributor all the way to right to get it to start. your wires are one position out and you are using dist. to get it back to where it should be. if you are saying your plug wires in the first picture is the it runs, you wires are out of sequence.

Go look at the pic again injunmort. The labeled#1 wire is in the proper position. The diz is rotated as far clockwise as it will go. If the drive gear is properly orientated, the high point on the vacuum can to the right of the screw should line up (approximately) with the bail on the oil filler housing. pic shows diz fully retarded.

Ok, I took a drive over today. Confirmed the spark plug wires were correct. Moved engine to TDC based on fan mark and flywheel mark behind engine tin. Rotor was pointing damn near straight forward. Pulled the dizzy out, and here's what we saw. The angle of the camera is not great, but keep in mind the housing where the dizzy sits is basically pointing straight forward in line with the case.

Any comments on this?
Click to view attachment

How about if we compare it to this (a reference McMark created some time ago)?
Click to view attachment

you must reclock the distributor drive by pulling it out and replacing it in the orientation of your second picture. i don't think you will be able to get it timed correctly in its present position.