I got something very strange going on. I just finished up putting in a new fuel pump. I charged up my battery to full strength overnight. Now when I got to start it, it will not turn over and the {B} lights in the gas tank gauge keep blinking. It is like there is a security kill switch somewhere. I hear a buzzing noice coming from the engine bay but can't seem to locate exactly where it is coming from until I get some help.

Do these things have some type of security device somewhere? I'm at a lose.

I would guess you have something wired wrong from the fuel pump install, but don't know what.

Go back and check the wiring to make sure connections are right.

-- Whit

Edited my post. It is the B lights in my fuel tank gauge that are constantly blinking. Not the flashers.

Well I figured out a couple of things. The "B" light in the fuel guage is my parking brake light. My is engaged and I can't disengage it. Have to take it apart. The hissing sound is my new fuel pump so it seems to be working. Still can't get it to turn over. All fuses look good. It is like I am not getting any power to the starter. Is there a relay or fuse for this?

yes B is the warning light that ur hand brake is applied. the hizzing sound is for the sealbelt. did u put ur seatbelt before starting it? u can remove that seatbelt warning by removing the passenger side seat and look at the floor with big silver relay. cut the biggest (only yellow) yellow wire and attached it directly to by pass the relay. that is my idea with it. with the B light, i just removed my bulb for that to ignore hand brake warning light.

Start simple:

Does the starter solenoid click when you turn the key to the start position?

If it does, with the car out of gear, you can use a plastic handled screwdriver to temporarily connect the large lead on the starter to the top connector on the starter to see if that will turn the motor over. I know there's a pic here somewhere... hopefully someone else can find it.

It may be a bad solenoid.

Not sure if the brake light flashing can be solved by a reset switch in the wheel well, I might be confusing that with something else. There was another thread on some similar brake question a couple of days ago.

-- Whit

Check for voltage on the yellow wire going to the starter. When you turn the key to "start", does it have 12V or something close to it?

--DD

bad ground its always a bad ground

I hate it when threads go this long without an answer that takes literally seconds. Just put a fuchin screwdriver to it and report back.

Patience Rand. I didn't notice the year so look under the psg seat to see if your's has the seatbelt interlock system. If it does, jump the 2 big yellow wires together and shit can the rest. Then do as Rand suggested. Be damned sure it is in neutral and the parking brake set. Another thing. If you tap on it with a hammer and it works you've a bad solenoid. Be sure your handbrake is FULLY disengaged. Once it's down push the release button again, lift up about 2mm then let it drop the last 10-12mm. Both of my 914's do this.

I plan on doing your guys suggestions tommorrow. By the way, my seat belt plug is not plugged in on my driver seat. Noticed that today. I don't have the seat belt sound at all. Must have already been taken care of. That hissing was the fuel pump for sure.

I was able to work on this some today. I get the bendix to work when I touch the 2 large bolts together but it doesn't engage. I tapped it a couple of times with a hammer but no to. I had the switch in the on position. It looks to be a new starter and bendix installed but the wiring has me puzzled. Here is a picture of what I got. I am going to see if I get a volt reading on it. Curious what all these wires are for. Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Check where that black wire goes. That's not stock; it might be shorting something out.

--DD

After tracking them down, the large black wire goes to the positive side of the battery. I have a Large RED ground wire and Large Black positive wire off the battery. Some idiot hooked it up that way that had it before me. The small red wire at the starter gets no reading at all with a volt meter whether ignition on or off so I left it disconnected. Still get nothing to the selenoid. I assume the yellow line is what activates the selenoid and bendix engage when the key switch is turned to the start position. I have no idea what the small black wire goes to. It reads nothing whether switch on or off. The yellow gets 12v when in the start position but it is not activating it. All that is happening is my RPM needle goes all the way to 7Krpms and the fuel pump activates. I read about a reset switch? Could this be causing the issue?

If jumping the posts doesn't turn the starter over, I'd consider a new one. The high torque starters on ebay and from the usual vendors work well but may need a spacer to clear the flywheel. Cleaning up the wiring while you're at it will make things simpler and easier to track down issues.

There should be a heavy gauge cable coming straight from the positive battery terminal to the large post on the solenoid, and a yellow wire coming from the ignition switch through the engine tin to the blade terminal on the solenoid. The other large post on the solenoid comes hard wired to the starter.

I've found the best way to chase electrical gremlins is to get things as close to stock as possible first, then troubleshoot from there. That way you can reference the wiring diagrams in the shop manual and online. Hang in there...the fixing is half the fun!

Sorry, not the wire I meant. The big fat black cable should be going to the battery (+) terminal. The thick red wire should be coming from the alternator; that is the primary charging path for the battery.

I meant the black wire with the push-on terminal on the end, in the photo next to the yellow wire and apparently zip-tied to the thick black cable.

Where does that one go?

--DD

The starter won't turn by shorting the two large studs. That just applies power directly to the solenoid. You need to short the large black wire to the yellow wire. Can't believe you guys missed that!

I thought the same, except he said he was able to "get the bendix to work." If the solenoid gets activated it should crank. Problem is the setup in those pics is not clean. It's been hacked.

Here's a grungy pic from way back. If you are going to attempt cranking with the screwdriver trick, short from the main power cable from battery, to the solenoid terminal (yellow wire). Or red to green arrow in the following pic. Connecting the large terminals (red to blue arrows) would bypass the solenoid and just spin the starter motor without engaging the flywheel.


Click to view attachment

I think I spoke wrong rand, two studs will crank the starter. I'm betting the starter turning is what he heard.

Agreed.

correct me please if i am wrong,but if you spin the starter, it will engage the flywheel. the bendix is centrifical. rotaion of the starter spins out the bendix gear which engages the flywheel. yes? hence the spring on the bendix.

No. The solenoid operates the actuating fork to engage the starter gear into the flywheel. Engine starts, you release the key, and the bendix spring returns the gear to its resting place.

No If you just spin the starter, nothing engages. If you power the solenoid, it pushes forth a gear that engages the flywheel and also acts like a big ass relay to put full power to the starter (more than you would want to draw through the other wires). At least this is my understanding. But I know for sure if you power the starter but not the solenoid it just spins.

Well after all the great info I got here, here is what happened. Touching the 2 big poles activated the starter which is what I heard. Not the selenoid. I used a screw driver to touch the positive big pole to the yellow line prong and got the engine to turn over a few times. What I did was create a new yellow lead extention because the one I had was weak. Put it on and was able to crank it using the ignition...... . However, it does want to turn over all the time using the ignition. It will work fine for a 1 or 2 times and not work again. Could my ignition switch be going bad? It started doing this same thing right after I got the car. Turns over once or twice and then no go.

Classic case of a cracked ignition switch. (The white plastic insert)
Or intermittent connections at the seatbelt relay under the passenger seat on late model cars.

For one thing, my seat belt plug is not connected on the driver side. I pull up the seat and it is not connected. Don't see where it goes.

I fully think it is the ignition switch. Is there a easy way to tell or do I have to remove it completely?

Would a late model apply to my year car?

Just saw your signature says 72. If that's the car we're talking about then no. The 73 and later cars have a widget under the passenger seat that won't let the car crank unless seatbelts are buckled. It can be problematic.

My bet is on this part:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearc...1-905-865-K-M61

I just order one.....Thanks. I hope that does the trick. Will post back with results.

learn something new every day. thank s for the explanation