I got my 914 all pretty much tidied up and running great. That ROW 2.4 has TONS of torque. Sixnotfour swung by on Sunday and we went out and hammered on it for a while.

So anywhoo, here is just a couple of pics of the exhaust I did up. I used the "W" headers from the 2.7 generation 911 and made my own pipes back to a stock muffler. Why? because I want to take the heater boxes from a 75-76 914 and wrap them around these pipes. Also, I wanted the 3 pipes to merge as soon as possible to increase the top end on an already torque'd out engine. So far, I love the set up. the power band kicks ass and as you can see by the pic's, super clean, lots of room and hopefully easy install of the heater boxes soon. Just have to find some now.

Pic 2 of the engine. This system fits perfect, the pictures may not do it justice, but I am very happy with how it turned out so far. Hopefully the heat will be similar.

So after driving it around a bit, I got back and found a HUGE oil spot under the oil tank area. WTF?

Checked lines, good.
Valve covers, good.
Oil filter, filler neck, breather lines, oil tubes, all good. So WT... Wait, is that oil running down the back side of the tank? Not the front mind you, the back where there are no fittings. Dam, sure looks like it.

Yep, pulled the tank:

And found this:

Here is the same picture, but with the oil leaks circled. This is a tank that Patrick says he makes. Not Vellios, but Patrick. He says from the Vellios sand castings, but still his own. So it is leaking through pin-hole sized pours in the casting on the backside. I am going to call him today to see if he will send me another tank.

What sort of answer do you guys think I will get?

That looks like a nice alternative.

KT

The exhaust, that is.

Its alloy right?
so it can be soldered/welded back up!

let me know when you decide to get rid of it.
I'm still interested.
brant

QUOTE (trekkor @ Apr 18 2005, 06:49 AM)

That looks like a nice alternative. KT

Thanks Trekkor. The two things I wanted to try are:

Increase my top end.
More straigt forward heater box set up.

Just something I wanted to try. If I don't like it, a set of 914-6 headers from MSD or where ever are just a phone call away. But I don't think I will have to do that, these turned out really nice. Plus they are modular, so I can remove pieces if needed. i.e. if I have to pull the engine for a clutch or something, I don't have to risk removing the actuall headers and ruining exhaust studs. Sort of cool.

Yup...That'll do it!

Cool looking tank though...

shitty molding. debris on the core or either the cope or drag. dan, look up Thomas Machine and Foundry, now located in north marysville, out your way on 99. i'll get you the phone # and you would ask for Tom Thomas. if the tank is aluminum they could weld up all the pin holes. i'll call first and set things up if you like. get back to me asap and i'll see what i can do. i wish i could get a copy of the tank and core patterns. i could get tanks made so cheap. even heat treated. it's hard to believe these companies don't pressure test the items before they ship. horrid q.c.. no excuse.

k

I have the alum set up for my mig welder. The tank and spool gun, used them before. The tank is fine, I like this style. They use the later OC54 oil filter and no oil console. They are a little heavy compared to a stock tank, but 4lbs isn't a big deal to me.

Well, I was going to keep this to myself until I called PM today. But I actually did weld up the two small pin holes. Ground it back down, you couldn't even tell they were ever there. I put the tank back in and I still have one stream of oil instead of two now. Much, much less, but still a leak from the backside of the tank? There are more "Pin holes" or "pits" that I didn't weld up because I didn't see any oil from them. BUT, they could still be leaking. the oil was warm and clean, very hard to see. So I will likely have to remove the tank again (that for sure), and weld some more. It isn't too much of a pain. Just wanted to drive the car, not weld the tank.

Brant, yeah, if you want it, I will hold it for you. I plan on using the one that GPR is making. I really want to try it out, but Don hasn't been able to make any lately. So when he gets one put together, I will give you a good deal on this one. No worries, I will have the leaks fixed by then.

Dan...gud luck.

I HOPE he stands behind it and replaces it. If he doesn't it just validates my opinion of the guy.

Wow, I called and spoke with Brian who turned me over to Jim, the guy who helped on the devolpement of the tanks with Vellios. He said they normally liquid fill them to test them for leaks. Said this one might have gotten missed? But the part I wanted to relay was Jim was super nice. Offered to send me a shipping label (Paid label) and just swap it out, weld this one up etc. The words I liked were "We'll take care of it whatever it takes."

That was cool. I sent him the picture and told him that I will tank the tank to check for leaks. If there is only a couple more pin holes (or one I am thinking) I will just weld it up, no biggie.

PM stood behind what they sold and will fix it until I am happy. If I tank it and find a bunch-o-leaks, I will send it back. But if there is just one more pin hole I missed, nah, I will just zap it really quick.

Jim said when they fill them, they have only ever had troubles with a couple of them leaking on the seams, which they can weld up again. He said this would be the first he ever heard of one leaking through the cast area.

I know most people don't like these tanks, but I do. They seem really sturdy and out of like 5 now, this is the only one that has given me any troubles so far. So I am sure either way, it will get fixed this week.

Gud....maybe he was off his prozac when I dealt with him.

QUOTE ("Z" @ Apr 18 2005, 08:00 AM)

Gud....maybe he was off his prozac when I dealt with him.

I was happy. Shit happens, I won't get pissed because of things like this. I had my oil cooler mod'd for the fitting. The welder had to weld up a tiny crack in the tube. It leaked. I had to pull the cooler off with engine in car. He fixed it the same day and appologized. Shit happens, no biggie, he fixed it ASAP. That is all that matters.

Funny though, I think this will be the 4th oil change this 914 has had in like 50 miles. $2 a quart, that is starting to add up!

Next time you talk to him...tell him I said hi....like he'll remember me....

unless someone from the BBS has mentioned how irked I am at him....if he cares.

Anywho, I see GPR in your sig line...what up with that?

Dan,
I always love to see your projects. You really know how to get the most bang for the buck. I think that rocks. Cool use of the 'W' headers. You know, those would be a great starting point for building a turbo-six. Not that anyone around here would be that crazy. (Pay no attention to the 'W' headers I'm holding behind my back.)

-Ben M.

Ferget the welding.....just use JB weld or RTV

QUOTE (airsix @ Apr 18 2005, 08:15 AM)

Dan, I always love to see your projects. You really know how to get the most bang for the buck. I think that rocks. Cool use of the 'W' headers. You know, those would be a great starting point for building a turbo-six. Not that anyone around here would be that crazy. (Pay no attention to the 'W' headers I'm holding behind my back.) -Ben M.

Thanks dude!

This method did save lots-o-money. But I didn't do it for that. More a test of power band (move the torque curve up) and heater box fabbing. I will admit, I love this stuff!

About the only PITA part was replacing ALL the exhaust studs for the thicker flanges. You can see them in the pic's above. If I was to do this again, I would have just "notched" the flanges. because now if I want to put on a set of other headers, out come these studs ect. Other than that, I love the sound, the power and the simplicity of this system. It just plain kicks ass. I don't think I will ever buy 914-6 headers again.

QUOTE (crash914 @ Apr 18 2005, 08:51 AM)

Ferget the welding.....just use JB weld or RTV

Actually, a couple of welders I know have told me to use Devcon Alum putty and not to weld. Looking into that as well.

Hmm, devcon, $39 for a 1lb tub of it. Cheaper to weld it since I got all of that set up already. Just have to either dip the tank in water and watch for bubbles or fill it with water and watch for leaks.

Dan, Great work on the exhaust.

Tell me more about those "w" headers. Are they stock on a 2.7 911? Also once you get the heat exchangers installed, do you forsee having to remove the headers to adjust valves, etc?

Peel back the covers on the GHL header and you will find what Dan has stumbled onto !!

About the tank:

This is the 4th tank from those moulds that has had pin hole leaks that I'm aware of (before Jim)

I dont get it Dan.. why didnt you use the welded aluminum tank from GPR ?


B

QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Apr 18 2005, 06:40 AM)

So anywhoo, here is just a couple of pics of the exhaust I did up. I used the "W" headers from the 2.7 generation 911 and made my own pipes back to a stock muffler. Why? because I want to take the heater boxes from a 75-76 914 and wrap them around these pipes. Also, I wanted the 3 pipes to merge as soon as possible to increase the top end on an already torque'd out engine.

Hi Dan,

that looks very nice to me. Could you please send some more pictures of the 911 header ?

I'm not very familiar with the design of the "w" headers, but aren't they identical for the
right and the left side ? If this is true, you only have to mount one header in the "opposite"
direction, right ? This would mean, that one of your ehaust pipes would be a little bit longer
than other side (which is no problem i think ...).

What about the clearance to the other engine and chassis parts ?

Again, very interesting setup !!!

best greetings from Germany / Berlin

Benno

QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Apr 18 2005, 12:21 PM)

I dont get it Dan.. why didnt you use the welded aluminum tank from GPR ? B

I wanted to, I really did and do and will, but Don hasn't or didn't have any welded up yet. When GPR gets some together, I will grab one and put it in. For now, I found out what my problem was. It was my weld. I ground it back down too far so there was a hair line crack about 1/16" long that seeped just a little. I warmed up the tank and left a little "booger" built up in that area. Not a drop of oil now. I didn't take a shot of the re-weld I did, but here is a shot of the tank back in the car. I left work early yesterday just to do it. I drove it around for like 130+ miles with the top off! Weee!

Just a shot with the batter tray gone, CD box mounted. Note the other pic has no relay board. Clean engine bay. I like it.

Last one after putting lots-o-miles on it in the sun yesterday. Runs out great. That 911/57 engine has a great torque curve. Other projects this summer will include updating the susp. But other than that, I will probably just drive it.

QUOTE (sechszylinder @ Apr 19 2005, 03:07 AM)

QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Apr 18 2005, 06:40 AM) So anywhoo, here is just a couple of pics of the exhaust I did up.  I used the "W" headers from the 2.7 generation 911 and made my own pipes back to a stock muffler.  Why?  because I want to take the heater boxes from a 75-76 914 and wrap them around these pipes.  Also, I wanted the 3 pipes to merge as soon as possible to increase the top end on an already torque'd out engine. Hi Dan, that looks very nice to me. Could you please send some more pictures of the 911 header ? I'm not very familiar with the design of the "w" headers, but aren't they identical for the right and the left side ? If this is true, you only have to mount one header in the "opposite" direction, right ? This would mean, that one of your ehaust pipes would be a little bit longer than other side (which is no problem i think ...). What about the clearance to the other engine and chassis parts ? Again, very interesting setup !!! best greetings from Germany / Berlin Benno

As far as I know, they are the same, so yes, one side is slightly longer than the other. That might cost me a couple of hp, but I think the whole set up compensates for that anyway.

What I would like to do sometime is put this on a dino with this set up. Swap to say MSD's and run it again. See how much is really lost because of that. I wouldn't think more than 2-3hp?

QUOTE (cdmcse @ Apr 18 2005, 09:22 AM)

Dan, Great work on the exhaust. Tell me more about those "w" headers. Are they stock on a 2.7 911? Also once you get the heat exchangers installed, do you forsee having to remove the headers to adjust valves, etc?

If you can picture heater boxes from a 75-76 914-4, try to picture them around the long single pipe I welded in. That is my idea anyway. Figured it was worth a try. I have to find a set of late heater boxes to work with now. I have thrown away lots of sets over the years too. Figures.

Nah, there is lots of room, I can't see where any of the exhuast would be removed for doing valve adjustments.

Love the wheels/trim rings.

Back by popular demand!

what's happened to the Rootwerks thread, concerning the 911 headers ?

Thanks again Gint, I will be more carefull when cleaning up my threads.

Nice work Dan. I love that clean engine bay!
I've been putting on the topless miles too - gotta love this weather! Supposed to be nice for a while too!

Hi Dan,

again, many thanks for the infos !! I think its a very nice setup !!

Benno

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Apr 19 2005, 07:58 AM)

Love the wheels/trim rings.

...very nice look.....just widen those out to 7" rims and leave it alone.....total sleeper

QUOTE

...very nice look.....just widen those out to 7" rims and leave it alone.....total sleeper

Thats what I told him, I did it to a Bug in the 80's I thought it was cool.Only did 7 in the back

QUOTE (sixnotfour @ Apr 20 2005, 09:19 AM)

QUOTE ...very nice look.....just widen those out to 7" rims and leave it alone.....total sleeper Thats what I told him, I did it to a Bug in the 80's I thought it was cool.Only did 7 in the back

I will admit it is sort of fun running around with a Euro 2.4 six and a 1.7 badge.

That isn't really a bad idea. Can't you just buy the VW 7" steel rims anymore? Or would it be rims into a shop sort of thing? I have an extra set of rims. That would be sort of cool too.

QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Apr 18 2005, 12:21 PM)

About the tank: This is the 4th tank from those moulds that has had pin hole leaks that I'm aware of (before Jim) B

5TH TANK! - I have one of those tanks, and it leaks but only when the engine is running. I thought it was one of my fittings so I took it out and cleaned all the fitting and just put it back in last weekend. Haven't run the car yet...I'll let you know...I got my tank from someone who got the tank from someone who got the tank from PM..

DAN,
I have a set of late heat exchangers that you can have They're in good shape but one is missing the front piece, if you've seen them then you know what I'm talking about.
Let me know, I throw them in the trunk this weekend if your coming down for the WCC.
-Mike D.

I think there is a place down in Portland that can widen the rims, you need to run the trim rings on them as you will see the welds.

I have bern gone a while fixing houses and buying a place in Flagstaff, AZ. Great to see this article since I am still interested in building a 914-6. Dan, as always, great job. Your enjoyment is reflected in the quality of information and projects undertaken. Keep up the good work; I will keep reading your project information. Soon will be looking for a roller 914.

Good to be back reading about 914's; need the "FIX"

Steve Hurt
Shoguneagle

QUOTE

I think there is a place down in Portland that can widen the rims, you need to run the trim rings on them as you will see the welds

Used to be called Willamete Wheel.It is also a 4wheel drive shop. They would use a 7" wide blank and just use the Bug ,err 914wheel center.welded on the back only .most any backspace you want . That is who did my bug wheels.

QUOTE (Mike D. @ Apr 20 2005, 10:36 AM)

QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Apr 18 2005, 12:21 PM) About the tank: This is the 4th tank from those moulds that has had pin hole leaks that I'm aware of (before Jim) B 5TH TANK! - I have one of those tanks, and it leaks but only when the engine is running. I thought it was one of my fittings so I took it out and cleaned all the fitting and just put it back in last weekend. Haven't run the car yet...I'll let you know...I got my tank from someone who got the tank from someone who got the tank from PM.. DAN, I have a set of late heat exchangers that you can have They're in good shape but one is missing the front piece, if you've seen them then you know what I'm talking about. Let me know, I throw them in the trunk this weekend if your coming down for the WCC. -Mike D.

Man, I have thought about trying to go. But my wife and I just can't swing it this year. I got a set of H/E's from a sort of local 914Cluber. Hopefully my idea will work well. If it does, you will see posts on it.