One side welded. I still have some metal finishing to do. It was lots of fun trying to control the shrinkage. It messed with the fit and caused the mounting holes to move a bit out of place. But with some hammer and dolly work, and a bit of muscle, I got things back to where they're supposed to be.
I stopped at this point today because the other side is going to be critical in that this side and the front panel (one piece, at this point) need to stay exactly where they are, in terms of the mounting holes.

I need to think through what's going to shrink and start with a fit that, after welding, ends up with things where they need to be.

I'm waiting til tomorrow and hoping to approach things with a fully fresh brain.
Wish me luck...

Then I found a piece of scrap carbon fiber so figured I'd see what it might look like as filler for the openings. Imaging this with the panels in paint.
I kinda like it!
I'll mock up some aluminum panels, many some with upholstery and see what I like.

Beautiful work Chris! I can't imagine what this kind of fabrication would cost...
Don't forget the pop out cup holder.

Here is Chris's "bracket" installed...it is 100x better than what it replaced! Thanks again for the time - well done!

T

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Hey Tony -
Ha! Who'd a thunk? Me... a motorsports fabricator!
Glad to see it worked out. (Let's see how it holds up when you whack your first curb...)

@Morph914 Hi John! Funny you should mention the cup holder. I'm trying to figure out if I can hide a couple in the side of the console. Yet another minor reason for the redesign.
And are you out here? If so, let's plan a time to meet up.
Hope to see you soon!
Chris

@bbrock and @Retroracer Brent and Tony - You've both been helpful in pointing out the potential for the cover to interfere with the dog house during installation and removal.

So I did a couple things:

1. I put a small spacer behind each mounting tab before welding the side panels on. (I still have to weld the driver's side). This simulates the protrusion of the top of the rivnuts I think I may use (vs welding a nut on the back side of the dog house).

2. I took this pic! It does an OK job of showing that the tabs aren't actually captured by the stamping recess. The cover comes off straight forward and, with those little spacers, there's no interference.

But big thanks for pointing out that possibility. It made me add the spacers and verify the fit in terms of real world use.

Hey, I can use all the help I can get!

And a few of you have asked about another "Red Barn Fabrication Day". I'll start a new thread and see who'd like to do what and we can get something on calendar.
If you're interested or want to let me know what you'd like to do, feel free to PM me, or post to the thread, once it's up.

The really nice thing about the plasma table is that I end up using it as a (pretty) rapid prototyping tool. I'm only working in 2D so I can quickly work up a drawing and make the part. Literally, some of these things take just a few minutes, from start to finish. ANd if I don't like it, I've only wasted a bit of material. I don't consider any of this a waste of time in that it's all about learning and trying things out. I'm a physical learner and I need to see it, hold it, etc. before I know how I really feel about what ever it is I'm trying to make. Not the most expedient method, but what are you going to do?

I started making the main firewall panels, cut the driver's side and started fitting it. It's currently just a plain sheet so I'll need some sort of stiffening added. As with the dog house cover, I figured why not work up a similar cut out version and see if I like it?

Easy as that, I just added the cut outs to the drawing. Then I pulled everything together, just to sorta get a vibe of the look. Seems OK to me so it's back to the plasma table...

Note that very lower part is just an idea. It won't work as is due to the seat belt retractor locations be moved down there, as well as a few other things. I'll need to figure out something for that area pretty soon.

WOW! Just found your thread.

Amazing that you're making dies to do this press work. What size press are you using?

This is just amazing workmanship.

Thanks for the kind words. The press is nothing special, just a basic H-frame, standard floor model size. But it is hooked to the same pump that powers the bender. Makes it zero effort to use it.

A few minutes on the plasma table and I have the cut blanks. But in terms of fitting them, I don't have the exact measurements for some of the trickier spots so it's fit, file, fit, file, til it's where I want it. I'm happy with this result!

And about 1.5 hours later, both main panels are shaped and fit, the lip is bent on the bottom (it'll get spot welded to the lip on the panel just above the acrched tube) and I'm ready for the next step. Which is to decide exactly what will back them up and how I want to attach everything.
There will be some welding, some rivets (I think) and maybe even some panel bonding.
But I think this is the design I'm going with.
Oh, and I'll have to come up with a couple small trim pieces, like something for around the door bars.

Every time I open this thread , it’s just amazing.
That carbon fiber detail is the ticket.
Way to go Chris.

I have no plans as of yet to travel to Napa, but when I do, I will definitely contact you. Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
John

Hey, who you callin' tacky?

Getting the other side tacked in REALLY locked things down. And now that the cover is all one piece, I'm happy to report that it goes on and off with no interference between the mounting tabs and the recessed areas. Very little risk of damage to what will be painted surfaces!

And what the heck is going on here??? I mean, I've heard of "roll bars" but this is ridiculous!

Well, those who attend the upcoming workshop day will see!

Crazy skills - and such a range as well.

One question now I've seen that last pic of the cover all welded up - why did you make it in 3 parts and not just one with 2 folds ? Good engineering reasons I'm sure.

@andrewb - Great question. A friend stopped by yesterday to say hi and he asked the very same thing!
It was not so much an engineering reason as a skill issue. The original plan was to do just that: one piece, two bends.
But I happily confess that the dog house isn't exactly symmetrical and the odds of me measuring, calculating and bending two folds so the cover's mounting tabs ended up exactly where they need to be were essentially zero. If those tabs aren't dead on in the recess, the cover won't fit and I won't have a nice gap all around the edge.
By building it in three pieces I could (better) control the outcome, given my current level of skill.

There's a sort of saying in the metal shaping world that essentially says:

If you're better at shaping, you'll end up make fewer, larger and more complex pieces. If you're better at welding, you're likely better off making more, smaller, simpler pieces and welding them together.

I'm sorta in the middle - still on a steep learning curve for both disciplines.

I almost finished welding the driver side of the cover. I thought I'd give a try to the silicone bronze rod. I like it but need more practice, as you can see.

Also, given how flimsy this piece is, what with all the cut outs, the welding caused a fair bit of distortion. The shrinkage had the front panel oil canning pretty badly. So those darkish areas you see are where I went after the high spots using just the TIG torch to do some heat shrinking.

It worked pretty well and the oil canning is gone.. I may make another cover, now that I've seen how these parts react.

I decided to give another go to making the cover to see if I could reduce the welding distortion.
This time, I'm going to stamp a recess into the panels ahead of fitting/welding. I'm curious to see how much of a difference this makes in the parts being a bit more resistant to distortion.
I haven't landed on if the carbon panels will still go behind the openings or, with the recesses, if I'll make carbon inserts.
I'll worry about that once I see how this turns out.

So, I cut new side panel blanks and made the male components of the stamping die. I still have to cut the female part of the die. The two small pieces can be mounted on either side of the plate so it works to stamp both the driver and passenger side panels.

I cut the female part of the die set and here it is, all assembled, with the panel blank installed, ready for the press.

And after the pressing process.

I had a scrap of carbon fiber so I shaped it and taped it into the recess, just to get a vibe on how this design would look.

I think it looks more "finished" than just the flat panels with the carbon behind it.
Remember, I've dubbed this thing a "race rod" and this new look is less race and more rod. I think I could live with either.

And it'd be a lot more work to do the panels this new way as I'd need to make the same sort of stamping die set for the front of the cover as well as the main fire wall panels.

Would it be worth it when most all of it will be all but covered up most of the time?

As you know, I think your build looks more like a space ship than a rod and that carbon fiber fits perfectly. That is bitchin'! However, more than once I've felt a tinge of sadness to look at your amazing work and thing of it getting covered up in the end. What a pity nobody was allowed to gaze upon the Mona Lisa's smile.

Thanks Brent. I think any cover I do for the firewall will be some sort of "quick release" thing I can remove. Maybe a removable upholstery cover that snaps into place? I want some sound deadening else I think it'd be a bit much for more than just an around the block drive!

For anyone interested, here's the plasma table cutting part of the cover stamping die. I find it mesmerizing to watch. And yes, I wear an appropriate shield (#8, if I recall). With the shield, I can get right down in there and see exactly what's going on. It's pretty neat to watch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XabU3uJWI8

Freshly cut parts ready to prep for use.

I prep the stamping dies by dressing the edges of the parts to knock off the sharp edge in an attempt to eliminate anything snagging/cutting during the stamping process. It seems to work.

After looking at this, all I could thing was: "As a kid, I always liked recess..."

Seriously, I like this look vs the earlier "plain" version.
Next, it's on to fitting and welding it up.

Then I cut a test piece to get the dimensions for the door bar trim pieces.
I confess I was quite proud of myself in that I remembered the bar isn't at 90 degrees to the panel, which means the hole in the trim piece needs to be an ellipse, not a circle.
I was able to get a pretty good measurement, awkward though it was to get in there with the calipers, and the initial test piece fits pretty well.

I decided to go all in on the carbon fiber insert look. So today, I drew up and cut the stamping dies for the fire wall's main panels. Here's the driver's side done. It looks so much more refined than the one on the passenger side. Plus, it's a bunch more rigid with the shape it now has.

One thing you can just barely see (but that I didn't think through) is that the door bar trim piece will need to be a tic smaller in diameter as it nearly touches the edge of the recess. Not a big deal but one of those fun "Hmmm, didn't see that coming" moments that cause a small step back.

Ah well, just another of the joys of handmade...

On to the passenger side!

And if you're interested in a bit more detail on the stamping dies, here's a quick vid on how it all works. One of the folks on the ArcLight plasma table user forum asked for some details so I figured I share here, too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqzP--Jd4c0

How are you going to attach the carbon fiber to the steel?

I'm going to test out using a 3m structural panel bonding adhesive around the recess, then I'll lay up (standard wet layup) additional carbon fiber across the entire back of the panel so the recess lip is sandwiched between the carbon insert and carbon backing.

Man that looks great!!!

Thanks Andrew! I spent some time tuning up a few spots on this panel and gave it a once over with the DA. After all the time and various iterations, IMO, this firewall is finally coming together - and I really like it.

Now to come up with a console design that keeps this same thing going... I hope to get started on it this week.

I reversed the stamping die pieces and completed the passenger side main panel.

This is a major milestone as that, for the first time, I have all the needed fire wall panels (in a design I like!) and I can begin final / permanent installation of the main pieces.

At last!

Looks great Chris, and thanks for the video it explained everything. Off to CAD land - actually off to my son, as he is faster than I am and cheaper labor rates

That looks beautiful!

Looks great!

Thanks much for the compliments. It helps to hear from others that I'm not completely off track!
Today was prepping the fire wall panels for installation so nothing picture worthy.
The problem happened when I noticed the carbon fiber covers I'd made for the longs. I figured I'd give a go to fitting one. None of this sort of thing does anything to helping get the car on the road. But messing with the visuals does help with motivation.

It turned out pretty well and I think it'll look really good with the carbon inserts on the fire wall.

I'll need to come up with some sort of trim / covers for around the door bar verticals and out to the door seal.

The raw panels were starting to rust where I regularly handle them so after removing the rust, I gave them a squirt of weld-through primer. I ran out of the silver so some of the parts got the copper-rich stuff.

In any case, adding the recesses to the cover panels really helped control the distortion. There was WAY less this time.

Or could it be because I was more judicious with the welding heat?
Or was it that I planished the tacks and test fit the cover after every 5-10 tacks?

Probably everything helped.

In the metal shaping world, a sorta rule of thumb is that the panel is ready if it requires only a finger's force (ish) to hold it in place against the shape of the buck. This pic shows the cover in place with no fingers! No fasteners, either. It fits perfectly into the recesses. Yes, there will be some filler to address some of the surface imperfections but overall, it's one of the best results I've been able to achieve so far.

And famous last words but I think I'm finally getting the hang of TIG welding. It certainly doesn't hurt that I get practice with the metal art I do.

Here's the first go at the seal for the removable cover. Just a simple rubber U-channel from McMaster-Carr. Nice and tidy and from what I can see from the engine's perspective, it looks like it'll work just fine.

Next on the list is to work out the cover fasteners. I ordered a couple different sized rivnuts and bolt head styles so I should know what's what early next week.
Once that's determined, I really need to get this fire wall fully installed.

Boy that looks great!

Simplicity vs plainness. Simplicity can be elegant but IMHO, plainness is, in most cases, boring. So rather than doing something constructive, today I added some style points to the drive train spacers. You may recall that I used these to move the engine/trans forward in the chassis. They are totally visible, what with the trunk floor removed.
Anyway, they we just big chunky looking things so I cut some relief pockets in them.
Then I soda blasted the surfaces before draw filing them, leaving a contrasting finish in the pocket. I may come back and cut them deeper. But they sure look LOTS better. And hey, they're lighter, too!

That is most definitely "Ore-Ida." Nice work!

Haven't been in this thread in a few days. Firewall is looking fantastic!