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Full Version: BUILD-OFF CHALLENGE: Tygaboy's '75 LS3
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tygaboy
QUOTE(Cracker @ Aug 23 2019, 02:55 PM) *

Your shroud looks kind of angry...why don't you drop CF insets into those reliefs?

T


That's the plan for all the reliefs, here and on the firewall.
914forme
Great job Chris, that finished edge really finishes the piece off.

Jeff Hail
Great progress. Form follows function. I would consider CF inserts to keep the air flow as much through the radiator core as possible then some escaping over the top.
tygaboy
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 23 2019, 02:56 PM) *


Knowing how you are at making things from scratch, I could bring my 944 up there whenever you get into starting that so you can take measurements/angles/mock up, ect.


@Andyrew - Thanks for the offer! If I go the 944 roof way, I may take you up on that.
Rootworks posted his work grafting on the same: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...05&hl=steel

I plan to call Parts Heaven today to see what they have, what it'd cost, etc.

The other option I've been kicking around is to pull a mold off the smoothed stock roof I have, make a CF outer skin, then fab / weld in a steel roof frame structure and bond the CF skin to that. I'd paint it to look like a stock, removable roof.

Lots to consider and it's not urgent (other than to @914forme laugh.gif ) that I get to working on a fixed roof.
914forme
No rush for me either, that is one to two car projects down the list. But I would like a well documented versions. @tygaboy

Wow Jeff is back he documented his pickup raise very well, but just want more coverage. And the same goes for @Rootworks version documented well but like to have multiple sources. People tend to document things a bit differently, do things slightly different.

I have an idea in my head how to do both of them. 944 graph build the sub structures, then make it so the rear edge gets crimped over the sub structure, will have to TIG'd to the outer skin to and weld the edge to the sub structure which forms the rain gutter. Rain gutter will be similar to the real 916. Lots of work but in my sick mind, it will be great amounts of fun. For something I will most likely never use. lol-2.gif Except to pop it open at the car show. A/C tends to keep me from windows down driving. That car will have A/C

For the roof, see if they have an early 944 or even a 924. Mechanical roof pieces are what you want. Easy to convert a power to manual, but if you get one with all the parts even better. Theres a guy about 45 minutes north of me that only works on 944s and parts some of them out. Got the roof, and a perfect sunroof panel for an uncle ben.

I do like the CF idea for the roof panel, I will enjoy either thing you build no pressure from me.
sixnotfour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TXGXZ-3BZY
tygaboy
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Aug 24 2019, 02:53 PM) *


Multiple skin cancer surgeries to remove Melanoma and Basal cell carcinoma from my face means I'm no longer a big user of sun roofs or removable tops. If I do any sort of fixed roof, consideration for openings/opening capabilities is way down the list.
tygaboy
Today I completed the tunnel's system lines: fuel, brake and clutch. I elevated the fuel lines with a couple little bracket stands - the front one doubles as the brake/clutch line bulkhead for the transition to soft lines that run to the master cylinders.
On top of the brackets, I'm attaching the lines with what I think are some neat little retainer clips. They're from a company called NotcHead. I also used them to secure the battery cable. The lines snap in and out. Pretty tidy, IMO.
sixnotfour
QUOTE
Multiple skin cancer surgeries to remove Melanoma and Basal cell carcinoma from my face means I'm no longer a big user of sun roofs or removable tops. If I do any sort of fixed roof, consideration for openings/opening capabilities is way down the list.


well my 914...
914forme
I really like the line setup, and the Marzall markers are the best I have found, I buy them by the case.
sixnotfour
clear plexi on tunnel.....
tygaboy
I had the fuel tank all set to go but after some thought, and given the fact that it had a couple rust spots I had to patch, I decided to start over.

I got a new tank and started in on the driver side filler. With the first version, I made a small eyebrow to close the small gap between the front edge of the filler plate and the tank. Here's that version.
tygaboy
I figured I could do a little better so...
Take one brand new tank (repro, not NOS so relax), fab the filler plate, mark for fit and cut a big hole in the brand new tank!

But this time, around the front of the curve, leave some extra material on the tank.
tygaboy
And instead of making an eyebrow, I opted to try a little hammer and dolly work to stretch and reshape the tank opening so it becomes the eyebrow. You can see where the tank's eyebrow dips - I should have left a little bit more material in that area but this turned out pretty well.

Next, I need to weld fasteners to the underside of the plate, then weld the plate to the tank.
914forme
Looks great, not sure why you ever show us version one. confused24.gif It does remind people that fabrication does take time, you make mistakes, and well you learn from them. Errors are just opportunities to learn.
tygaboy
QUOTE(914forme @ Aug 27 2019, 05:31 PM) *

Looks great, not sure why you ever show us version one. confused24.gif It does remind people that fabrication does take time, you make mistakes, and well you learn from them. Errors are just opportunities to learn.


@914forme Stephen, I post essentially everything I'm doing on this build, just in case it's interesting to someone. As to the redoing? I end up with the do-overs because I either screw it up and can't use the part or, as is the case with the tank, it had rust that I had to patch (see pic), needed to be boiled out, etc. Given I got the new tank for $200, it was destined to be replaced. Hope that makes sense.
tygaboy
I spent yesterday and today finishing the filler plate and pump plate install. Everything went well with both pieces. I also updated the design of the pump plate in such a way that I retained the entire tank seam. That "seems" laugh.gif a better way to go.

It did necessitate a re-routing of the lines.
tygaboy
And in keeping with the "he's making it up as he goes along" method, I realized I hadn't fully accounted for where the fuel filter would mount. I played with somewhere in the engine bay but ended up going with right on top of the fuel tank.
I'll make a suitable platform to secure the filter but this is certainly a more convenient location for servicing.
914forme
I like it better than the factory location as it gets the opening further out allowing for more clearance to get to the opening. And since it is a fuel cell cap, the opening should be much larger allowing for increased entry angle giving even more clearance if needed.

I really like it so much so I may borrow the idea for my build. Holly, Earl both use the cap, they are laser etched with the logo etc. My thought is to strip it, and anodize it, and then laser edge a modified crest into it to represent the true nature of the car.

Chris I love the details and the fact your willing to share them, that is really what makes me follow this thread so much.

Kinda like I follow some insane builds where some people remove a microgram off a part by machining a millimeter or replicating it in Ti.
Andyrew
Easy access fuel filter is big with me. I seem to clog them up often. Especially a 100micron. Good spot there!!
76-914
Chris, what gasket material did you use? beerchug.gif
tygaboy
QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 30 2019, 08:41 AM) *

Chris, what gasket material did you use? beerchug.gif


@76-914 - Both the pump (Aeromotive) and the filler came with gaskets. You can sorta see the filler gasket in the pics above- it's just a circular rubber-ish material that you can see between the scallops of the filler base.
The pump gasket is a thick foam-like material that compresses down to ~ 1/8 inch. See the pic. It's designed to account for corrugations in the surface of the tank. I spoke with the Aeromotive folks this morning to see if they make a thinner gasket. They said use the foam one. OK then.
76-914
Looks great. Nice and tidy. Nice kit, too. beerchug.gif
tygaboy
And since I was in the frunk, I figured I ought to get to making room for the coolant lines. I've decided not to try anything fancy with line routing and will go with the standard "Gates hoses tucked into the recesses in the floor".

But I couldn't just have the lines poking through the sheet metal so quickly made up a hose support plate. It'll rivet in place.

And I have all the aluminum tubing and 90s to fab up hard lines from these hose locations to the radiator. It should look pretty nice in here, once things are finished
sixnotfour
I want to believe you have something more clever in mind other than cutting holes in the wheel wells,,,, idea.gif popcorn[1].gif flag.gif
tygaboy
As I started fitting the hose plate, I noticed that the area where it sits isn't completely flat. There's a slight indented curve on the lower section where the plate needs to go.

I certainly don't want a gap there... idea.gif

English wheel to the rescue! I figured I might be able to wheel a raised area into just the lower, center portion of the panel.
tygaboy
Here it is nearly done. You can see it's flat across the top but has been stretched along the lower edge and inward, up between the holes. The stretching causes the metal to grow in area and it has to go somewhere so it bulges up.
tygaboy
And it wouldn't be a Tygaboy post without some Clecos! shades.gif

You can see those two on the inner lower area point inward, indicating just how much curve that really is there.

This was a fun little effort and it turned out really well.
tygaboy
Planning and mock-up for radiator hard lines. The hoses are just to help size the lengths of the straight sections. The plan at this point is that both will be one piece from the hose connection at the radiator and through the bulkhead panel. It looks like I can fab a bracket to support things so the connection to the Gates hose happens just behind the steering rack.

This design hides the transition from hard line to soft while enabling me to keep the lines as close to the frunk wall as I can. This to create as much room as possible for the battery, as well as air flow.

Comments on this approach from other experienced water-cooled folks appreciated. @Andyrew @BIGKAT_83 @ValcoOscar @dan10101 @burton73 and others I'm sure I'm forgetting.
burton73
These pictures are of a Subaru conversion that was for sale in the SF area early this year. The work on the bottom to protect the soft lines is a good idea. I personally used the heater tubes and ran my Gates lines there. You just had to put a hard 90-degree fitting and hose clamps to make the turn as the lines are coming back up from the tube back into the cabin. From rear forward. My old V8 made a lot of heat in the cabin but I was never sure if the heat was coming in from the front of the car or from the water lines.

One of our brothers in So Cal bought this car. I liked the idea of how he did this.

Sharing this in case you never saw it. Nice car

Bob B
Click to view attachment
tygaboy
@burton73 - Thanks for the input, Bob. I have that pic of that car's set up.

Those lines look to be up inside the tunnel. Nice protection for sure and I was contemplating that earlier on. I decided against it for the "heat inside the car" reason. Plus, the "Gates lines under the car" has been proven to work.

I'm no fluid dynamics expert but it sounds like a couple hard 90 degree bends aren't really an issue?
tygaboy
Fabricating and fitting the side shrouding took quite a while with what felt like 100 reps of "in for the test fit, out to tweak an edge, back in to test fit..." But I got the result I was after.

I'm thinking I'll powder coat the radiator support then rivet these panels to it.
burton73
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Sep 1 2019, 12:32 PM) *

@burton73 - Thanks for the input, Bob. I have that pic of that car's set up.

Those lines look to be up inside the tunnel. Nice protection for sure and I was contemplating that earlier on. I decided against it for the "heat inside the car" reason. Plus, the "Gates lines under the car" has been proven to work.

I'm no fluid dynamics expert but it sounds like a couple hard 90 degree bends aren't really an issue?



The gates hose in the heater tube at the point where it made the 90, made the hose squish down and I did not want the squishing of the green stripe hose to get a reduced flow there.

I am not sure how it would have worked as I went with the hard elbow there.

Bob B
bye1.gif
FL000
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Sep 1 2019, 08:46 AM) *

Planning and mock-up for radiator hard lines. The hoses are just to help size the lengths of the straight sections. The plan at this point is that both will be one piece from the hose connection at the radiator and through the bulkhead panel. It looks like I can fab a bracket to support things so the connection to the Gates hose happens just behind the steering rack.

This design hides the transition from hard line to soft while enabling me to keep the lines as close to the frunk wall as I can. This to create as much room as possible for the battery, as well as air flow.

Comments on this approach from other experienced water-cooled folks appreciated. @Andyrew @BIGKAT_83 @ValcoOscar @dan10101 @burton73 and others I'm sure I'm forgetting.


Other than yours looking nicer than mine that sounds like the same basic route I took and works fine!

Click to view attachment
tygaboy
QUOTE(FL 000 @ Sep 1 2019, 03:02 PM) *

Other than yours looking nicer than mine that sounds like the same basic route I took and works fine!


@FL 000 - Yours looks great! That's the Renegade set up, isn't it? That's what I started with But I wanted to create more room behind the radiator so ended up building the frame set up.
tygaboy
Fab'd and fit the other side. On to drilling for rivets...
Andyrew
Hard line looks messy. Lower one is fine, but top one with that large gap is messy. I think this looks better.

Solid hard line with soft connection by the rack is a great idea.

Gonna make it out of aluminum pipe or stainless?
Andyrew
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Sep 1 2019, 04:27 PM) *

Fab'd and fit the other side. On to drilling for rivets...

Damn nice. That's a very tedious area.
Andyrew
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Sep 1 2019, 12:32 PM) *


I'm no fluid dynamics expert but it sounds like a couple hard 90 degree bends aren't really an issue?

Not for water flow. If it's pipe bent it'll have enough radius that flow won't be an issue.

You are planning an external water pump?
tygaboy
@Andyrew - I have a Mezier remote, electric water pump. It mounts on the driver side of the engine cross bar.
The hard lines are aluminum. Here's the initial routing with some of the welding complete.
Again, the lower hose is just mocked in place with the connector hose just holding the two tubes in place.

To get the lines to tuck close to the fire wall and wheel well, I had to slice the hose connections off the radiator and clock them to point straight back. A little more work but it maximizes the amount of space I have for the battery. Plus, I like the way it looks.
Curbandgutter
Wow, I love the way those hard lines are looking. I've never like the rubber lines just dangling out the way it's typically done. Very clean look for sure.
Andyrew
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Sep 3 2019, 01:59 PM) *

@Andyrew - I have a Mezier remote, electric water pump. It mounts on the driver side of the engine cross bar.
The hard lines are aluminum. Here's the initial routing with some of the welding complete.
Again, the lower hose is just mocked in place with the connector hose just holding the two tubes in place.

To get the lines to tuck close to the fire wall and wheel well, I had to slice the hose connections off the radiator and clock them to point straight back. A little more work but it maximizes the amount of space I have for the battery. Plus, I like the way it looks.



That looks good smile.gif

Whats the material? Aluminum?
andys
QUOTE(Curbandgutter @ Sep 3 2019, 02:14 PM) *

Wow, I love the way those hard lines are looking. I've never like the rubber lines just dangling out the way it's typically done. Very clean look for sure.


Except that you do need some rubber couplers in strategic places, as the aluminum hardlines will expand and contract rather significantly. Just thought I'd mention it. Yup, those hardlines do look good!
Andys
tygaboy
QUOTE(andys @ Sep 3 2019, 02:50 PM) *

QUOTE(Curbandgutter @ Sep 3 2019, 02:14 PM) *

Wow, I love the way those hard lines are looking. I've never like the rubber lines just dangling out the way it's typically done. Very clean look for sure.


Except that you do need some rubber couplers in strategic places, as the aluminum hardlines will expand and contract rather significantly. Just thought I'd mention it. Yup, those hardlines do look good!
Andys


@andys - I was planning rubber between the hard line and the radiator and just past the trunk wall, the hard line transitions to the Gates hose. There will be a couple rubber isolated mount P-clamps helping support the lines, as well.

Would you think that'll be OK? (I could always redo the hard lines in stainless, if needed.)
Cairo94507
Chris that looks great!
Krieger
You've really got a lot of things done recently!
Andyrew
I doubt you'll have any problems with the alum hardlines for longevity. I used stainless on mine only because I don't have a tig...
76-914
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Sep 3 2019, 01:59 PM) *

@Andyrew - I have a Mezier remote, electric water pump. It mounts on the driver side of the engine cross bar.


Good choice; quality pumps. Are you running the 45gpm pump. I may have missed this; which controller will you use? beerchug.gif
jd74914
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 1 2019, 10:20 PM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Sep 1 2019, 12:32 PM) *

I'm no fluid dynamics expert but it sounds like a couple hard 90 degree bends aren't really an issue?

Not for water flow. If it's pipe bent it'll have enough radius that flow won't be an issue.

I wouldn't quite make that statement...for a smooth [or welded] tube bend of this size you're gaining about 1-1.5ft effective length for every 90* elbow. Likely not an issue, but when you're on the edge that can add up. Not saying you're on the edge Chris-I'm sure you'll be fine, especially since you don't have a crazy excessive amount of bends.

The lines and shrouding looks awesome!

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 4 2019, 08:52 AM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Sep 3 2019, 01:59 PM) *

@Andyrew - I have a Mezier remote, electric water pump. It mounts on the driver side of the engine cross bar.


Good choice; quality pumps. Are you running the 45gpm pump. I may have missed this; which controller will you use? beerchug.gif

Can you use a PWM output on your ECU to control a solid state relay? Or ECU signal (CAN or PWM) to control an InfinityBox output? It'd be a lot more elegant than having another distributed controller. smile.gif
tygaboy
@76-914 @jd74914 - It's a 55 GPM pump, same one as pictured. As to switching the fans, I can use the ECU or the Infinity Box system. The 2nd pic of one of the Infinity Box options.
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