I fixtured the new mounts in position, got the measurements set and tacked them in.
But in order to get the trailing arms in, this overhang has to be removed. I kept wondering why the arm wouldn't go in...

What I had yet to cut:

What it looks like after trimming. Essentially, just cut in plane with the rear face of the mount.

Arm fitting.

Lesson learned: if you're doing this mod, wait until it's complete BEFORE doing your flares.

I'm chasing getting the wheel centered in the flare...

Another fun fact: The mounts get welded to the outside of the longs, where they taper in towards the back of the car. So as the mounts are moved fore and aft, the track width changes.

The good news is a rough measurement shows I have 2 degrees negative camber with no shims.

With my wheels (16x9 w/245s), the pic shows where I am at this point. The tire does clear, it's just REALLY close.
Plus, I need the wheels to move forward about .4 inch. I think I can make it work by trimming away about 1/2 the return on inside edge of the flare.

If not, I'll need to remove material from the inside of the pick up mount, where it meets the long. Or do both.

Either way, I'll make it work. Just means more time spent.

Trim the lip.

I think I would try to roll that part of the lip so you keep the material and strength.

Chris - that's certainly the first step. The issue seems to be exacerbated by the fact that my car's original suspension pick up points measured 1.1 cm longer than the published under-chassis specs - as depicted below.

When I installed the kit parts and matched my stock pick up location measurements, the gap in the center of the fixture was just under 3/4" wide and the tire was outside the flare.

I may be in touch to talk in more detail.

Are those THE wheels? You could have 1/4" machined on the inside. I assume you have well over an inch on the inside for clearance? You pretty much need about 1/2" of room to allow the tire to flex. 1/4" with lower profile and stiff sidewalls.

Granted that inner lip on the fenders is a hair excessive. .


Pretty cool you got it this close on your first try

oh hell just make some offset railing arms...

I would lean toward the as built dimensions instead of the factory specs.

Some positive validation: The driver side has essentially identical fore/aft position in the flare as well as tire-to-flare clearance.

As Huey sang, "It's hip to be square."

On the right track. Square is hip to be.

If you check a lot of 914 profile photos you will notice many are all over the place especially for tire/wheel position in the fore/ aft of the wheel openings. (with flares or without) Some appear centered, others seem like the wheel is forward a bit. Mind not because the critical stuff is all in the undercarriage. Outer body sheet metal is just a dress, if cosmetic sheet metal is where it needs to be consider it luck on the way.

Try taking measurements of (3-4) 914's. The head demons will take over for a week or two.

Is that the fit up with 2 degrees camber? At ride height?

My friend had a shop install his flares, and they rolled that inside lip around (I believe) a 1/4" rod, which yielded significantly more clearance.

Andys

What was I thinking? Of COURSE it was going to take me multiple attempts before I got it right! Why would this be different from any other part of this build?

After the first couple tries, I'd built a fair bit of confidence in terms of how this all goes together, what and where the changes happen when the parts are moved around, etc.

Having established that the firewall lower cross member and tops of the engine mount plates always measured level to each other, I could use them as reference and simply work on the installation no matter what position the car was in on the rotisserie.
I just had to get a measure of either of those and use it as the target # when "leveling" the tangerine components and fixture in the chassis.

So after some careful measuring, a bit of math and remembering that 1/2 the time the car is upside down (wait, which side am I working on? ) I got attempt #3 positioned, leveled and tacked in.

I also trimmed the inner edge of the flare. I had my fingers crossed there'd be clearance - which made installing that wheel a little harder than normal.

Clearance is still tight-ish on the outside with about 3/4" on the inside. If needed, I can roll the remaining flare lip as @andys mentioned or as @Andyrew suggested, mill a bit off the inside of the wheel.
I also have the option of removing some material from the inside of the Tangerine pickup, where it butts up to the outside of the long.

Doing my best at channeling Jeff Hail. Check his installation of this kit and you'll understand what I mean.

Don't overreact to that camber number. Remember, I don't always have the car at "0" level. At this point, it was at -2.1 degrees, putting my ride height camber with no shims at ~ -1.7

And I'm happy with the wheel position in the flare opening. Wheelbase measurement spec be damned!

Actually, I don't have the front suspension on the car so can't even measure it yet. Once I do, I'll be interested to see where I ended up.

I have to say, I REALLY like these wheels on this car.

@wes and @horizontally-opposed

Wes and Pete stopped by yesterday for a visit and to talk about a small project I may be able to help them accomplish. Another couple of characters, to say the least!

So I just want to say how great it is to put faces with names and get to know others from this forum. Pete brought his insanely nice /6 conversion (as well as a very generous gift of a copy of 000!) and while the cars are always a point of interest, what I'm most fascinated by are the stories and experiences everyone has, how willing to share and help they are and in general, what great people we have in this community.

Anyway, back to the build...

^ Back at ya.

Was great to hang out with you and Wes, and to see your project and shop.

My only regret is you didn't actually sit in my car to check out seating position—but it looks like you are well ahead of the game on that. Your build is epic, and let me know if you ever want to take my car for a spin for lunch!

Thanks for the plug Chris from one tool whore to another.

@tygaboy doing an excellent job Chris thank you for documenting this so well.

Now what about the steel roof.

Steel frame with a carbon skin bonded to it. I plan to start that after the suspension is done.

Given that today I had another biopsy "shave" taken from a spot on my left cheek (the face one), I'm all about never having the roof off the car anyway. May as well remove possible leak areas!

Was a great day visiting with you and Pete thanks Chris. I must say what a great shop with tools beyond my wildest dreams and his build is going to be or already is amazing. Also much thanks to Pete for your gracious copy of the beautiful 000 magazine, great to see you again. For anyone who is not aware of 000 magazine you owe it to yourself to take a good look 000 is extremely well done.

Killer progress as usual!!! Everything is looking really great!!

I may have kits available in 2020.

Trial fitting of the driver's side. The wheel position in the flare is virtually perfect on this side too!

And as Jeff Hail mentioned, it's more important that the chassis numbers are correct - and my suspension pick-up points are square. As well, I achieved a nice fore/aft fit so, apparently, my chants and prayers to the fabrication gods were answered.

Well, so much for perfect symmetry. It seems the "tighter on one side" gene was passed on to my chassis so additional clearance will be required here.

I'm running the Elephant Racing poly bronze bushing set up and they use a "large stainless washer" between the shaft and trailing arm mount/chassis. I may fab a thinner one for each inside one and move the arms in a bit.

And it looks like I will roll the flare lip, too.

Awesome work Chris. Good luck with the biopsy. Oddly I had one the same day, had a small cherry on my clavicle cauterized.

If the height is approximate to how you want the car to sit set static toe at zero for the mock up. Will make life easier in the distant future.

I built a dummy shock from an all-screw (doubles as my hub installer) set at 20-1/2 inches with flexibility to shorten it another 2 inches as a setup tool when I installed the pickups during the final burn in.

Have the same ERP bushings and shafts. The ERP shafts use a threaded stud, the studs come loose fairly easily which I found after installing/ removing the trailing assemblies multiple times. Double check them preferably Lock-tite them into the shaft. Consider drilling the nylock nuts/ shafts to add safety wire as the nuts have been known to loosen also. Don't install the zerk fittings until last, I snapped two with all the trial fitting letting the trailing arm hang down.

Jeff that is good to know, I run the same units. Have not had the issue, but better safe than sorry. And yes I have broken the zeros also.

Jeff - Thanks for the kind words. Same suspension kit, same day biopsy, tool whores... wonder what else we have in common.
I also discovered that threaded stud thing! I was trying to remove the arm after one of the mock ups and I'm thinking "why the hell does it feel like the other end of the shaft isn't spinning when I loosen this bolt?" All of a sudden the stud comes out! So yes, planning Loctite.

And I appreciate the guidance on the toe setting. I was planning on just validating I have +/- range of motion at ride height so I'll take your advice on this, too. Seems easier to work to a fixed value.

Finally, yes, I've been planning all along to shamelessly steal your all-thread dummy shock approach. And let me save you some time on future posts: I plan to copy virtually all of what you did, including your Rocket Science buddy's suggestion for plating farther up the long.

I revisit your thread ALL THE TIME, and not just re: the pick ups. You schooled me on the sleeve approach for inner/outer long repairs (I stole that approach, too) and a bunch of other stuff. Many of us are following in your footsteps, and let me say, them be some big shoe prints to try and fill!

Shoe size 9.5, not that big a print.

Oh, she's a WIDE girl!

I spent today doing what will likely become a "project extender".
I have a new acquaintance.
He owns a composite company.
He has some "interesting" capabilities.
I'm thinking I need to take advantage of them:

A 5' x 5' (you read that right) 3D printer that is used to print the molds. For things like carbon f-ing wheels!

An autoclave you can almost drive into with your auto!
Seriously, this thing is like 5' tall/wide and 10' long.

And my favorite: a 5-axis mill that can carve things like, oh, I don't know... car body panels?

I'm taking a set of doors, bumpers, hood and trunk lid over to see what we might do...

Carbon 914 parts anyone?

Yes please! There goes a parking spot.

No . . . . .

After just going though seemingly non-stop Mohs surgeries on my face, and then the Melnoma and skin grafts on my shoulder, I'll be praying that all biopsies come back negative.

That sun is a bitch! I miss it when it's not around (rarely see it in Michigan) but then it comes out and I find myself looking for a hat now to protect myself a bit.

You weren't kidding around...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0

Ugh - yep. One melanoma (upper left cheek) and a year later, a basal cell Mohs (lower left cheek). Now this biopsy really near the melanoma site.
I feel for you, brother...

Carbon, oh heck yeah, depending on price I would be interested in ..... Oh wait not on the 914-6 build, it was meant to be period correct parts build..... Oh do I love good Carbon

Carbon Fiber Mini-Lights he can call them Ubber-lites. Wonder if the design is still protected, as I prefer the originals over all the copies with their odd spoke with a lug hole in them. That would be one place I would deviate on, Reduce unsprung weight is always a goal for me.

Cool facility looks like he has the right stuff, if he has a large 3D Scanner, then you are golden, and should be able to calculate the shrink rate, and build a great part. Since he is building wheels I think he has composite down to a bit of a science. That is unless he is doing these for wall clocks. In which case still very cool.

check out Ring Brothers SEMA Camaro..... lots of similar open pattern panels/stiffeners

@914forme Stephen. Not wall clocks. He stress tested his wheels, made improvements and ultimately ran them on his 750hp Mustang. Beat the crap out of them, heat warped rotors, things like that, and had no issues with the wheels.

I've played with composites enough that I'm of the opinion that there's no reason we should have to struggle with crap fit and tons of prep, just to get light weight parts on our cars.

After seeing the level of quality available here (skill, experience, plus proper tools and equipment), I'm entertaining the possibility of partnering with him to make bumpers, hoods and trunk lids that are "ready to run", just bolt on and go. Or paint.
I'll post updates as things happen - or don't.

Quote : tygaboy After seeing the level of quality available here (skill, experience, plus proper tools and equipment), I'm entertaining the possibility of partnering with him to make bumpers, hoods and trunk lids that are "ready to run", just bolt on and go. Or paint.
I'll post updates as things happen - or don't.
[/quote]
That would be incredible! Sign me up. First in line .

[quote name='sb914' date='Nov 19 2019, 06:53 AM' post='2763282']
Quote : tygaboy After seeing the level of quality available here (skill, experience, plus proper tools and equipment), I'm entertaining the possibility of partnering with him to make bumpers, hoods and trunk lids that are "ready to run", just bolt on and go. Or paint.
I'll post updates as things happen - or don't.
[/quote]
That would be incredible! Sign me up. First in line .
[/quote]

Arrrg. The initial tacking in was done and I thought I had things all set... But no.

I was doing some final verification, I noticed a gap where the pick up points will be welded to the angled part of the longs.

The arrow points at where I ended up with a gap. Note this is pre-tacking and shows how things should look.

The gap was maybe 1/16 - 3/32". After all this work, I wasn't going to accept that. So I ended up cutting the tacks, pulling everything out and starting over.

Maybe the 4th time is the charm?

NOTE to others who may be doing this mod:
Once you get the pick ups positioned fore and aft, and have determined the width of the gap you'll have between the two main parts of the fixture, consider clamping a strap to both sides of the fixture to prevent it from opening up.

Or at the very least, pay more attention than I did and triple check the position ahead of tacking!

OK, so I leveled the car again. And this time, I checked level across two of the front suspension attachment points.

Hooray, my car isn't twisted...

I won't bore you with a repeat of all the steps.
Follow the Tangerine instructions, check for square, check for level, tack in.
Fit the arms, snug things up, set to ride height.

Wheel-in-flare fitment. CHECK!

Check for camber. No shims.

I'm within about 1/4 degree side to side.

Following in Mr. Hail's footsteps, I plan to follow a weld sequence of "outside top, inside bottom" first so any distortion that happens will add additional negative camber.

On to checking that I can achieve proper toe. Assuming so, weld all this in then add the sheet metal plating.

My first attempt at checking toe. I ran out of jack stands so just used some scrap perforated material to form a set of parallel string lines around the car. Not too sexy but it works.

With the outer mount moved all the way back, I can just get a bit of toe out so I'm calling the pick up points "in the correct (enough) position"!

Time to final weld all the pieces.

"Make the noise"!