Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: BUILD-OFF CHALLENGE: Tygaboy's '75 LS3
914World.com > The 914 Forums > 914World Garage
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93
AZBanks
Chris you are an inspiration. The quality of your work and your creativity are top level.
bbrock
I'm just in awe of your work as usual. That plumbing solution is incredible. Only thing is... what's the deal with that buggered rivnut? av-943.gif
dr.tim
A few thoughts having gone through a few iterations of this.


Consider moving the bend points further up the vane. You don't need to have much, if any of it sticking up above the hood: air flow from the front will still find most of the face due to rake of the hood.

Use large radii on the twisted points to reduce tendency to tear.

Be aware of the crown of the hood and where that will put the trailing (upper) edge of the vanes. With the curvature in the direction you have it, the trailing edge of each vane will be proud of the hood on either end and low in the middle.


This is what I am running, with the trailing edge of each vane the same height from the hood, uniformly 3/16" higher than the top of the surrounding frame. That required I run the vane curvature in the opposite direction from what you are.

Click to view attachment
tygaboy
QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 23 2020, 01:19 PM) *

I'm just in awe of your work as usual. That plumbing solution is incredible. Only thing is... what's the deal with that buggered rivnut? av-943.gif


@bbrock - As promised:

Brent,
You, Sir, are a dick!

And I'm giving myself bonus points for nearing your comma-to-word count per sentence ratio! poke.gif lol-2.gif
tygaboy
QUOTE(dr.tim @ Mar 23 2020, 01:59 PM) *

A few thoughts having gone through a few iterations of this.


Consider moving the bend points further up the vane. You don't need to have much, if any of it sticking up above the hood: air flow from the front will still find most of the face due to rake of the hood.

Use large radii on the twisted points to reduce tendency to tear.

Be aware of the crown of the hood and where that will put the trailing (upper) edge of the vanes. With the curvature in the direction you have it, the trailing edge of each vane will be proud of the hood on either end and low in the middle.


This is what I am running, with the trailing edge of each vane the same height from the hood, uniformly 3/16" higher than the top of the surrounding frame. That required I run the vane curvature in the opposite direction from what you are.

Click to view attachment


@dr.tim - Triple bonus points to you for saving me at least one iteration! I totally didn't think about my curvature being 180 out! And on the location of the bend points, I wasn't sure exactly where to place them so was planning to cut a test piece of just a couple vanes. Looking at yours, maybe I'll move my bend points up by one attachment point width.
But before I can do any cutting, it's back to the drawing board!
Thanks again, I owe you one...
dr.tim
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 23 2020, 03:16 PM) *

Thanks again, I owe you one...



I may claim that when I make it back to Sears Point. smile.gif
MichiganMat
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 23 2020, 09:02 AM) *

With my current focus seemingly "all things radiator", I went back to thinking about venting. I really don't want to open up the fenders so I figured I'd better prove out the hood vent, one way or the other.

No offense to the approach of "cut the front and sides then bend down the flap to create the vent". I just wanted something different from that so it was back to CAD to see what I could come up with.

The first pic is a piece I made just to get a REALLY rough idea of what things might look like.

The CAD drawing is what I'm going to cut later today. Note the vents remain attached to the frame via those small-ish connections on each side. The vents will be twisted at those points and set to the proper angle.

The small notches at the front edge of the vents is where a piece will fit in that locks them to the desired angle and adds stability.

The whole contraption will attach to the underside of the hood.

Let's see how this works out.


If I may offer a point of criticism (or at least, an opinion): The square shapes and 90 degree angles of the 914 don't lend well to triangles or curvy accents. I used a more brutalistic square shape for my front hood opening and, as simple as it is, the straight lines lend themselves to the rest of the body features. Scoopes, bezier curves, triangles, anything 'organic' really goes against the taxonomy of the design, in my humble opinion.

tygaboy
QUOTE(MichiganMat @ Mar 24 2020, 07:33 AM) *

If I may offer a point of criticism (or at least, an opinion): The square shapes and 90 degree angles of the 914 don't lend well to triangles or curvy accents. I used a more brutalistic square shape for my front hood opening and, as simple as it is, the straight lines lend themselves to the rest of the body features. Scoopes, bezier curves, triangles, anything 'organic' really goes against the taxonomy of the design, in my humble opinion.


@MichiganMat - Thanks for the input. I took a look at your hood vent and I think I can come up with a happy medium that integrates with the theme of my build. If not, well, I'll have to see what I think at that point.
Plus, I have a paint scheme in mind that goes a ways toward de-emphasizing the vent.
Keep the cards and letters coming!
tygaboy
Latest design, incorporating @dr.tim 's pointers. aktion035.gif

I agree with @MichiganMat and have the same concerns about if it'll look "right".

My thinking on the overall shape?
- the vent's leading edge radius matches the hood's front and rear edge radii
- the vent's trailing edge curve matches the side-to-side curve across the hood
- the narrow-at-the-front to wide rear matches the under hood support structure, giving me the largest air exit I can fit in that area of the hood.

I'll cut this one and see what I think.
sixnotfour
beerchug.gif more fuel
tygaboy
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Mar 24 2020, 01:36 PM) *

beerchug.gif more fuel


@sixnotfour Yeah, like that. But I mean, I can't just BUY one! You guys would never let me get away with that... poke.gif

And so, I went ahead with a first effort. This is 20 ga, which may be too thin and the dimension of the frame around the front and sides may need to be wider. It's .5" in this version. I think once I get things dialed in, I may try doing one in al-u-mini-um.

I will say, I'm pleased at what a tight dimension the plasma can cut. Look at how thin the center sections of those drops are!
tygaboy
Hmmm. I think I like it better than the earlier one with the rear edge that curved in parallel with the front.
tygaboy
It really takes on a totally different look once the vanes are tipped.

Now to cut the opening in the hood. And before you give me a hard time about sacrificing a hood, the one I'm using for this was in an accident that bent its support structure, it's got a bunch of filler on it and it has rot in a number of places.
tygaboy
QUOTE(AZBanks @ Mar 23 2020, 09:58 AM) *

Chris you are an inspiration. The quality of your work and your creativity are top level.

@AZBanks - Thanks so much for your kind words. I really appreciate it.
Krieger
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 24 2020, 02:57 PM) *

It really takes on a totally different look once the vanes are tipped.

Now to cut the opening in the hood. And before you give me a hard time about sacrificing a hood, the one I'm using for this was in an accident that bent its support structure, it's got a bunch of filler on it and it has rot in a number of places.



Why don't you just put your hood on the plasma table and have at it!?
Andyrew
Looks good!!!

Will you be welding it in place or bolting it to the hood?
sixnotfour
QUOTE(Krieger @ Mar 24 2020, 05:00 PM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 24 2020, 02:57 PM) *

It really takes on a totally different look once the vanes are tipped.

Now to cut the opening in the hood. And before you give me a hard time about sacrificing a hood, the one I'm using for this was in an accident that bent its support structure, it's got a bunch of filler on it and it has rot in a number of places.



Why don't you just put your hood on the plasma table and have at it!?

agree.gif
djway
al-u-mini-um

Make it so.

Jean Luc
tygaboy
QUOTE(Krieger @ Mar 24 2020, 04:00 PM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 24 2020, 02:57 PM) *

It really takes on a totally different look once the vanes are tipped.

Now to cut the opening in the hood. And before you give me a hard time about sacrificing a hood, the one I'm using for this was in an accident that bent its support structure, it's got a bunch of filler on it and it has rot in a number of places.



Why don't you just put your hood on the plasma table and have at it!?


@Krieger @sixnotfour - I wouldn't say I'm an expert at anything but I'm getting pretty good with my plasma table. Early on, I'd thought about doing this very thing but a few things had me abandon it pretty quickly:
- plasma puts a ton of heat into the material and there is a 100% chance the distortion to the hood would be significant - I'm not sure I'm skilled enough to correct it
- support of some kind would still be needed so I'd be adding material anyway.
- I'd have to get it right on the first try. Me? One try? We all know that's not my strong suit! laugh.gif

I've already made changes to the design that I think I like more. Give me a bit more time and I think I can come up with something that'll look right on this build.

And remember, this vent is eventually going into a carbon hood so I need a stand alone component anyway. Bonus points if I can use it as a mold to make it in carbon and bond it to the carbon hood!
Krieger
Chris, if you just borrowed a cryo chamber and put the plasma table and hood in it for 6 hours before the cutting began you'd be good! poke.gif biggrin.gif
andrewb
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 25 2020, 06:11 AM) *

Bonus points if I can use it as a mold to make it in carbon and bond it to the carbon hood!


....and then the final logical step is to bond it flush to the hood and then take a mould and THEN make a one piece carbon hood with integral grill/vents. Getting it out of the mold might be fun but you obviously like a challenge.

I'm not saying it's the best solution in any way - aesthetics, engineering or anything else - but you could couldn't you ? dry.gif biggrin.gif

Congrats from this side of the pond on Al - u - mini - um by the way.
sixnotfour
QUOTE
Yeah, like that. But I mean, I can't just BUY one! You guys would never let me get away with that... poke.gif


Yours has way more design/thought,,,I thought it could help others, they make a bunch of shapes.
beerchug.gif
tygaboy
Previous version (top) vs latest. The latest has:
- wider frame dimensions because the previous frame looked a bit "light"
- trailing edge radius flipped. This is the element that's giving me the most trouble. I'm struggling with what works best with the 914's design elements. I think I like this better but it may be that a simple, straight line is the way to go... idea.gif
- leading edge radius modified to better match the hood leading edge
- fastener/rivet holes

This whole "design" thing is soooo time consuming. I second guess every change.
And the whole "I have to make it and see it on the car" isn't helping! screwy.gif
Andyrew
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 26 2020, 08:00 AM) *

Previous version (top) vs latest. The latest has:
- wider frame dimensions because the previous frame looked a bit "light"
- trailing edge radius flipped. This is the element that's giving me the most trouble. I'm struggling with what works best with the 914's design elements. I think I like this better but it may be that a simple, straight line is the way to go... idea.gif
- leading edge radius modified to better match the hood leading edge
- fastener/rivet holes

This whole "design" thing is soooo time consuming. I second guess every change.
And the whole "I have to make it and see it on the car" isn't helping! screwy.gif


Chris,

What about welding/flushing it into the hood so the outline isnt there?
tygaboy
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Mar 26 2020, 08:10 AM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 26 2020, 08:00 AM) *

Previous version (top) vs latest. The latest has:
- wider frame dimensions because the previous frame looked a bit "light"
- trailing edge radius flipped. This is the element that's giving me the most trouble. I'm struggling with what works best with the 914's design elements. I think I like this better but it may be that a simple, straight line is the way to go... idea.gif
- leading edge radius modified to better match the hood leading edge
- fastener/rivet holes

This whole "design" thing is soooo time consuming. I second guess every change.
And the whole "I have to make it and see it on the car" isn't helping! screwy.gif


Chris,

What about welding/flushing it into the hood so the outline isnt there?


@Andyrew - I actually like the exposed frame, given the whole exposed fastener/rivet thing is part of the build theme. I'm (currently!) of the opinion that if it's going to have a hood vent, it's not like it can be hidden, so why not make it a feature? I just want to do all I can to get it to look integrated.
That said, once I cut the opening in the hood, I can fit it on top or from underneath. That may cause a change of plan. I'll get pics of both. I'd be interested to hear what others think.
jd74914
I always kind of liked what byndbad914 did with his hood vents. They are somewhat flush mounted (really lower mounts with rivets, but frameless). A bit more agressive than yours though.

IPB Image

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=204965
http://www.negativereinforcementracing.com/update.htm
tygaboy
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Mar 26 2020, 08:42 AM) *

I always kind of liked what byndbad914 did with his hood vents. They are somewhat flush mounted (really lower mounts with rivets, but frameless). A bit more agressive than yours though.

IPB Image

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=204965
http://www.negativereinforcementracing.com/update.htm


@jd74914 - Yep, I've liked that set up, too.
Cairo94507
I like that but would make the louvers invade the trunk instead of being proud of the hood if they would still allow the hot air to escape.
horizontally-opposed
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 26 2020, 07:00 AM) *

This whole "design" thing is soooo time consuming. I second guess every change.
And the whole "I have to make it and see it on the car" isn't helping! screwy.gif


I wonder if engaging @Optimusglen might be a good idea? He is hugely talented and great to work with.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/i...hp?t281607.html
tygaboy
Test V1. The good news is this hood was worse than I thought! LOTS of filler and other damage so I don't feel bad about cutting it up.

So, regarding Function and Form:

Does this look like it'll work to vent the radiator? Certainly.
Do I like it how it looks? I don't know.

I need to look at it for a few days.
tygaboy
I do like the way the rivets on the vent tie in with the fire wall rivets. And the angles/corners seem to work well together, too.
tygaboy
Better perspective on the "will it work?" aspect. Essentially a giant hole. OK, so really two medium holes... biggrin.gif
I may add some ducting to help it flow as efficiently as possible.
tygaboy
QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Mar 26 2020, 01:41 PM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 26 2020, 07:00 AM) *

This whole "design" thing is soooo time consuming. I second guess every change.
And the whole "I have to make it and see it on the car" isn't helping! screwy.gif


I wonder if engaging @Optimusglen might be a good idea? He is hugely talented and great to work with.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/i...hp?t281607.html


@horizontally-opposed Pete - Yep, I've been thinking about that very thing. Not for designing a hood vent, but because I'd be interested in getting a 3D printable file of @Optimusglen 's 914 front fender vents. If I could make/have a set made, I think I'd be OK with venting the inner fenders and running a stock hood. I'll check with Glen. Thanks for the push!
tygaboy
Initial draft of the inner vent strake. I need to prove out my math and determine where to add the mounting tabs but this is where I started. Total guess work, but what else is new? laugh.gif
tygaboy
Fit strake slot A into vent 1's slot A... A little fiddling to get everything to line up and things lock into place. cheer.gif
tygaboy
I think this will look pretty cool. Maybe do the strakes in a contrasting color? We'll see.
On to fabbing the outers.
djway
Work of art
tygaboy
Strakes completed and fit.
tygaboy
And on the car.

As always, I see a couple things I need to change and a couple I want to change.
A few updates to the CAD file and I'll cut all new pieces, including the main panel.

I hate to toss this one as it really is a usable piece so if anyone wants it, as is, PM me. Shipping costs only from 94952.
Nogoodwithusernames
That is coming along quite nicely especially once those strakes are installed. Compound angles like that throw my brain for a loop so that's very impressive.

How would you feel about moving them outward towards the edges and adding a third strake in the center?

P.S. I'm tempted to take that one off your hands to put on my stock -4 just cause it looks so cool aktion035.gif
Cairo94507
I was thinking the same thing. That is such a great looking piece ( smilie_pokal.gif ) that I was thinking how cool it would look on the garage wall in the event I ever got another 914 and ran a front oil cooler or radiator. beerchug.gif
tygaboy
QUOTE(Nogoodwithusernames @ Apr 1 2020, 12:53 PM) *

That is coming along quite nicely especially once those strakes are installed. Compound angles like that throw by brain for a loop so that's very impressive.

How would you feel about moving them outward towards the edges and adding a third strake in the center?

P.S. I'm tempted to take that one off your hands to put on my stock -4 just cause it looks so cool aktion035.gif


@Nogoodwithusernames - I worry it'll get too busy looking with more strakes. In the end, they simply stabilize the vent blades and, functionally speaking, I could likely get by with one per side, but I'm liking the way it looks with two. Again, I need to look at it for a few days and see if I change my mind.
tygaboy
QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Apr 1 2020, 01:41 PM) *

I was thinking the same thing. That is such a great looking piece ( smilie_pokal.gif ) that I was thinking how cool it would look on the garage wall in the event I ever got another 914 and ran a front oil cooler or radiator. beerchug.gif


@Cairo94507 Michael - Hell no! No seconds for you! happy11.gif

If you do a car that needs a hood vent, I'll make one special for your application. Knowing the level of awesomeness you'd go after, I'd be honored to contribute something to one of your builds.
Cairo94507
Thanks Chris. I am quite sure your part would be the nicest part of the car. beerchug.gif
andys
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Apr 1 2020, 12:53 PM) *

QUOTE(Nogoodwithusernames @ Apr 1 2020, 12:53 PM) *

That is coming along quite nicely especially once those strakes are installed. Compound angles like that throw by brain for a loop so that's very impressive.

How would you feel about moving them outward towards the edges and adding a third strake in the center?

P.S. I'm tempted to take that one off your hands to put on my stock -4 just cause it looks so cool aktion035.gif


@Nogoodwithusernames - I worry it'll get too busy looking with more strakes. In the end, they simply stabilize the vent blades and, functionally speaking, I could likely get by with one per side, but I'm liking the way it looks with two. Again, I need to look at it for a few days and see if I change my mind.


Chris,

I'm liking very much what you're doing! Yeah, a third strake will likely make it too busy. The vent I created for mine just doesn't go well with the car, and have definitely warmed-up to the louver concept....just been struggling with how to configure it around the existing hood opening (don't want to cut/weld/repaint). I don't recall his business name, but there's the guy that started making these for the GT40's replicas a few years ago, and has expanded offerings to other cars.

Masterful work overall! Car will be a showcase of fabrication prowess. Good on you!
Andys
tygaboy
QUOTE(andys @ Apr 1 2020, 02:24 PM) *

I'm liking very much what you're doing! Yeah, a third strake will likely make it too busy. The vent I created for mine just doesn't go well with the car, and have definitely warmed-up to the louver concept....just been struggling with how to configure it around the existing hood opening (don't want to cut/weld/repaint). I don't recall his business name, but there's the guy that started making these for the GT40's replicas a few years ago, and has expanded offerings to other cars.

Masterful work overall! Car will be a showcase of fabrication prowess. Good on you!
Andys


@Andys - Thanks much! If you can get me precise (enough) measurements or, even better, a .dxf file of your hood opening, I'd be happy to work with you to make one for you. Cost of materials plus shipping.
PM me if you're interested and we can talk details.
Chris
djway
pm sent
Krieger
Saweet! aktion035.gif
preach
Tyga King
Mueller
So cool looking vents, I'm waiting for the next stage...moving>variable pitch based on temp/speed smile.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.