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Full Version: BUILD-OFF CHALLENGE: Tygaboy's '75 LS3
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Cracker
I like the left personally...

T
Dion
I'd go with the left side version as well. Otherwise project looks great as usual.
tomeric914
QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 5 2017, 01:10 PM) *

I like the left personally...

T


agree.gif

The right tools make all the difference. Great job!
tygaboy
A good buddy of mine brought his new drone (DJI Mavic) over to see how it would behave inside a metal building.
I'll post the "Shop Tour" video in a bit but for now, here's my new favorite pic of my car! aktion035.gif
matthepcat
^^ Super cool shot!^^
tygaboy
It's a rare event that I get into the shop during the week but I'm feeling like I'll never make the 9/14 date with a "weekends only" approach.
It feels good to FINALLY be putting things back on this area of the car!

Tonight, it was the Tangerine Racing shock tower kit positioned and tacked in. welder.gif

As well as setting the angles, I took the time to use a straight edge to align the bolt holes symmetrically from side to side. Again, something no one will likely notice but it's the sort of detail that I think adds up.
jd74914
Nice! It's looking great! Symmetrical alignment is definitely one of those things that people notice when they're looking at the final product. smile.gif

Just a question...do Boxster transmissions typically have a rear chassis mount? Putting a rear mount on more or less makes it a totally constrained stressed member in the car which will impart some forces into it as the chassis twists. If they weren't designed for that I just worry about some internal binding. Not sure if this is actually a real concern or not. I know stressed engines can be concerning because of slightly changing bearing and piston/cylinder clearances.
Cracker
Yes. He is using the factory mount locations on the rear of the case...

Tony

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 7 2017, 09:58 AM) *

Just a question...do Boxster transmissions typically have a rear chassis mount?

jd74914
QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 7 2017, 10:09 AM) *

Yes. He is using the factory mount locations on the rear of the case...
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 7 2017, 09:58 AM) *

Just a question...do Boxster transmissions typically have a rear chassis mount?



Oh OK. I knew the mufflers mounted there but didn't know it was also a chassis pickup.
tygaboy
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 7 2017, 07:30 AM) *

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 7 2017, 10:09 AM) *

Yes. He is using the factory mount locations on the rear of the case...
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 7 2017, 09:58 AM) *

Just a question...do Boxster transmissions typically have a rear chassis mount?



Oh OK. I knew the mufflers mounted there but didn't know it was also a chassis pickup.


Why do I love this forum? Because people ask questions and I get to learn stuff!

jd74914 asked a question and I figured I'd better check. Turns out that, near as I can tell, that rear set of pick ups is only a muffler mount. That doesn't preclude it from being leveraged as something else but I think I'll ask around a bit before finalizing on how/if to do this rear mount.
Good thing I'm about the journey, not the destination!
Amenson
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 7 2017, 11:16 AM) *



Why do I love this forum? Because people ask questions and I get to learn stuff!

jd74914 asked a question and I figured I'd better check. Turns out that, near as I can tell, that rear set of pick ups is only a muffler mount. That doesn't preclude it from being leveraged as something else but I think I'll ask around a bit before finalizing on how/if to do this rear mount.
Good thing I'm about the journey, not the destination!


Given your incredible eye for detail and the skill/equipment to implement, it may be time to ditch the Renegade transmission mount and it's drawbacks and make something without compromises...and probably prettier!

Cheers,
Scott
tygaboy
QUOTE(Amenson @ Feb 7 2017, 09:15 AM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 7 2017, 11:16 AM) *



Why do I love this forum? Because people ask questions and I get to learn stuff!

jd74914 asked a question and I figured I'd better check. Turns out that, near as I can tell, that rear set of pick ups is only a muffler mount. That doesn't preclude it from being leveraged as something else but I think I'll ask around a bit before finalizing on how/if to do this rear mount.
Good thing I'm about the journey, not the destination!


Given your incredible eye for detail and the skill/equipment to implement, it may be time to ditch the Renegade transmission mount and it's drawbacks and make something without compromises...and probably prettier!

Cheers,
Scott


Scott - Wow, thanks for the compliment. I have to say that the Renegade mount has proven itself in Tony's (Cracker) car in a far higher stress environment (and with 100+ more hp!) than what mine will likely ever see. I'd prefer not to reinvent the wheel, just maybe augment it to provide a safety factor to account for the 1.5" spacers.
I've got a new idea in mind that I want to noodle on a bit more. I'll post as I work through it.
Keep the suggestions coming, please!
jd74914
QUOTE(Amenson @ Feb 7 2017, 12:15 PM) *

Given your incredible eye for detail and the skill/equipment to implement, it may be time to ditch the Renegade transmission mount and it's drawbacks and make something without compromises...and probably prettier!

agree.gif cheer.gif

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 7 2017, 11:16 AM) *

jd74914 asked a question and I figured I'd better check. Turns out that, near as I can tell, that rear set of pick ups is only a muffler mount. That doesn't preclude it from being leveraged as something else but I think I'll ask around a bit before finalizing on how/if to do this rear mount.
Good thing I'm about the journey, not the destination!

Sorry-didn't mean to open a can of worms.

Your engine rocks side-to-side about the axis of the crankshaft-that movement is pretty likely well covered by the existing mounts (primarily engine I would think). There is a vertical component of force from launch which provides the reaction force for the turning axles. Then depending on driveshaft angle there is a force caused by some off-axis loading when the axles are turning (could be forwards-backwards or vertical). Have to think about that some more...

What's your peak torque?
tygaboy
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 7 2017, 10:23 AM) *

Sorry-didn't mean to open a can of worms.

Your engine rocks side-to-side about the axis of the crankshaft-that movement is pretty likely well covered by the existing mounts (primarily engine I would think). There is a vertical component of force from launch which provides the reaction force for the turning axles. Then depending on driveshaft angle there is a force caused by some off-axis loading when the axles are turning (could be forwards-backwards or vertical). Have to think about that some more...

What's your peak torque?


I love cans of worms so no worries at all - I REALLY appreciate the extra eyeballs on this stuff. This is a stock LS3 and torque is rated at a bit over 400 lb/ft.

I'm planning to add stiffening/strengthening to the factory engine mounts and transmission cross brace so to simplify things, let's assume those aren't the highest risk failure points.

The whole point of the rear trans mount is to provide a safeguard to account for the extra leverage I've created by lengthening the Renegade trans mount 'ears'.

I'm thinking if I get another Renegade Poly trans mount and add it at the rear, I eliminate at least part (most? all?) of that leverage from the middle of the trans. If there is a failure, I've got my insurance. Unless all three trans mounts fail at the same time...! wacko.gif

I'm no engineer so... thoughts?
914forme
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 6 2017, 11:55 PM) *

It's a rare event that I get into the shop during the week but I'm feeling like I'll never make the 9/14 date with a "weekends only" approach.
It feels good to FINALLY be putting things back on this area of the car!

Tonight, it was the Tangerine Racing shock tower kit positioned and tacked in. welder.gif

As well as setting the angles, I took the time to use a straight edge to align the bolt holes symmetrically from side to side. Again, something no one will likely notice but it's the sort of detail that I think adds up.


Man them are short, I guess you plan on stowing the targa top in the trunk. Aligning the bolt holes is a nice touch. Oh and watch the top of the shock mounts for binding, if using aftermarket hats you might need add a spacer. The stock hats fit perfectly.

poke.gif Now remove the rear suspension consoles and move the pickup points.
tygaboy
QUOTE(914forme @ Feb 7 2017, 12:59 PM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 6 2017, 11:55 PM) *

It's a rare event that I get into the shop during the week but I'm feeling like I'll never make the 9/14 date with a "weekends only" approach.
It feels good to FINALLY be putting things back on this area of the car!

Tonight, it was the Tangerine Racing shock tower kit positioned and tacked in. welder.gif

As well as setting the angles, I took the time to use a straight edge to align the bolt holes symmetrically from side to side. Again, something no one will likely notice but it's the sort of detail that I think adds up.


Man them are short, I guess you plan on stowing the targa top in the trunk. Aligning the bolt holes is a nice touch. Oh and watch the top of the shock mounts for binding, if using aftermarket hats you might need add a spacer. The stock hats fit perfectly.

poke.gif Now remove the rear suspension consoles and move the pickup points.


Short??! You been talking with my wife, Stephen? lol-2.gif

Yep, you are correct: I went short so I can store the top. And the shorties don't need spacers. And yes, I did check and I'm good. Plus, I've been reading about this on your build thread - thanks for all that detail - I found it very helpful.

The Tangerine raised rear suspension pick ups are next. I'm a little nervous about those, to be honest. MAJOR surgery that simply has to go according to plan. Thankfully, I have an experienced race car fabricator buddy that's going to help me.
tygaboy
Playing with the next iteration design for what I've come to refer to as the "console plates".
I may cut this design and see how I like it in real life. The trunk stiffening panel started out too hot-roddy, and while I like this new design (top pic) more than the earlier version (bottom pic), this may be a bit too art deco-y.

I'm planning to run no door panels and the early doors have a nice arch element that I'm trying to echo in the plates. "Trying" being the operative word... dry.gif

This is likely throw away since I won't really know the dimensions I want until I get the seats and shifter mounted. But I enjoy the process and I'll have a better idea of what I want once I get to that point.
Andyrew
I like the pink version smile.gif
ChrisFoley
QUOTE(914forme @ Feb 7 2017, 04:59 PM) *

Man them are short,
...

happy11.gif
sawzall-smiley.gif
tygaboy
What's with everyone giving me a hard time about "short"? biggrin.gif
I will admit to rethinking the short vs. tall rear shock tower kit. I was going short so I could store the top. Do I really need to store the top?

I know, I'll make my own collapsible top! Sorta like the fold-able early 911 Targa roof. That'd be cool... I've actually been thinking about this for a while as storing the stock top forces a number of design constraints that limit what I'd like to do.
So, a folding top it is. I have an initial design in mind, too.

In the meantime, I've (again) changed the console plate design. V3 has separate front and rear sections. This will allow me to have a narrow(er) rear section between the seats and a wider front area for the shifter, etc. Varying widths open the door to some other, more interesting design elements, too.

Here's the front section. The rear section will bolt on to the end. I like this approach better. Feels like I'm getting close.
Curbandgutter
That's the direction I'm going with regarding the collapsible roof. I have no choice. I need to get a hold of the 911 collapsible roof and see how we can adapt to work with the 914 seals. Chris if you are compromising your suspension set up to get the roof to store in the back I say don't compromise. Make your suspension to your liking and then make the roof work later. It makes it more interesting. Keep up the excellent work.
Cracker
it looks to be ok but just design the interior bits with: elbows, shifting and clearance in mind. I have my battery mounted against the firewall there so you are most likely ok with the new console design. looks good.

T
jd74914
You could also relocate the damper mounts lower on the trailing arms add a little travel. It'll change the motion ratio slightly, but also let you go with the shorter tower kit and fit a solid targa top in the trunk. It is a bit of work since the mounts are a pretty integral part of the trailing arm. I'm thinking of going that route just because I really want to be able to keep the stock top in the trunk.
tygaboy
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 9 2017, 08:26 AM) *

You could also relocate the damper mounts lower on the trailing arms add a little travel. It'll change the motion ratio slightly, but also let you go with the shorter tower kit and fit a solid targa top in the trunk. It is a bit of work since the mounts are a pretty integral part of the trailing arm. I'm thinking of going that route just because I really want to be able to keep the stock top in the trunk.


Hey Jim. Wow, I'm looking forward to seeing that! I'm actually attracted to the idea of building a collapsible roof for one other important reason: I don't have to worry (as much) about sealing the trunk area from heat. I have an idea for a cold intake solution and with no/a smaller roof, I have a ton more room to work with for everything else that's happening in that area.
tygaboy
Hmmm... Not sure I like it now that I see it against the door. I'm going to update it to better reflect those shapes. Maybe scale it down a bit, too.

I think I'll name this car "It".

Short for "iterations" av-943.gif
914forme
poke.gif metal roof solves your issue poke.gif
AZBanks
The door shapes aren't that pleasing to the eye. Maybe you should make a panel for the door that matches your console piece.
tygaboy
I can't finalize the console plates until I get the floor in, the new tunnel installed and the seats mounted. So this weekend was focused on that.

Old tunnel out. Here's a rough fab of a plate to help distribute the loads from the tunnel tubes.

Boring, I know.
Cracker
Cool. Are you dropping the floor anywhere?

T
tygaboy
My seat has a car around it! First time in over a year. It's just mocked in to help me get an idea of how much room I have (and where I have it) for the various things I need to get from the front to the rear:
- water lines
- brake line
- hydraulic clutch line
- electrical
- shifter cables

And I'm planning not to run the water lines under the car.

A friend stopped buy and I explained what I was trying to do. He looked at me for a long moment and said:

"Have you considered wireless cooling?"

He's a real funny guy.
tygaboy
I love it when a plan comes together. How's this for a nice fit?

I'll claim this was all carefully calculated in my design specs... NOT.
Totally unplanned but come on, what are the odds?

I set the seat in place and noticed just how well my roadster cage hoop works with the stock seat. Too bad I'm not using them! Ah well.

tygaboy
delete
tygaboy
QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 12 2017, 10:32 AM) *

Cool. Are you dropping the floor anywhere?

T


Hi Tony - So, after looking at the space, or lack thereof, that I have for all the systems I need to get through the firewall, I'm thinking yes, lower the floor all the way across.

This would give me additional room to play with. I haven't worked through the protection issues but I think I can come up with something.
tygaboy
To quote David Bowie: "Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes..."
I think this is the winning version. I like the trellis look more than the holes.
Cracker
I like the holes better...honestly. Its your build though...

PS: The REASON I like the dimple die holes is it looks more legit to me - the other looks like a plasma cutter made it - the holes look like it was crafted - more or less. I am being serious. beerchug.gif

T
tygaboy
QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 13 2017, 07:29 PM) *

I like the holes better...honestly. Its your build though...

PS: The REASON I like the dimple die holes is it looks more legit to me - the other looks like a plasma cutter made it - the holes look like it was crafted - more or less. I am being serious. beerchug.gif

T


I agree that, as is, it doesn't look as "finished". But that was also the case with the other panel before I added the final dimples. The visual depth really makes a difference.

With that in mind, this latest design calls for the part to be water jet cut from 3/16 aluminum plate, like the shorty console plate. I can router all the edges to give it that same sort of look. Plus, it would be removable to ease servicing, etc.

It required a change to the "wing" area and the addition of some tabs to serve as the attachment points. Here's the current design where you can see the panel shape, along with the tabs.

It's all a work in progress so who knows what I'll actually do...
Curbandgutter
QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 13 2017, 07:29 PM) *

I like the holes better...honestly. Its your build though...

PS: The REASON I like the dimple die holes is it looks more legit to me - the other looks like a plasma cutter made it - the holes look like it was crafted - more or less. I am being serious. beerchug.gif

T


Chris,

I totally agree with Tony. The previous once with the holes looked purpose built. This, and please don't take it bad, looks gimmicky. Obviously, yours is the final decision and if you like it then that's all that really matters. We are just the peanut gallery.
76-914
I like 'em both. Which one fits the 914 you're creating? Which one are you most proud of? beerchug.gif
Rand
The more I look at your cad/plasma work the more I want to say keep it simple and light. I like minimalist on a build like this. I'd love to see you keep as much metal as possible OUT of the design without sacrificing strength. Clean and functional before intricate extras that add weight without contributing to strength.

Not criticizing, just thinking out loud. Adding a pic below... Outside the green makes structural strength sense. Inside the red box, I'm not sure it adds anything except visual noise?

Click to view attachment
tygaboy
QUOTE(Rand @ Feb 14 2017, 04:11 PM) *

The more I look at your cad/plasma work the more I want to say keep it simple and light. I like minimalist on a build like this. I'd love to see you keep as much metal as possible OUT of the design without sacrificing strength. Clean and functional before intricate extras that add weight without contributing to strength.

Not criticizing, just thinking out loud. Adding a pic below... Outside the green makes structural strength sense. Inside the red box, I'm not sure it adds anything except visual noise?

Click to view attachment


To everyone: I appreciate all the comments, opinions and perspectives. Your input helps me step away from my view and think about things differently. As I said earlier, I'm a brain-stormer who nearly always gets a better result when working with others.

Rand, "Visual noise" = great observation! I agree. The way the car is going to be used, I probably don't need anything aside from the cross bars. My goal is certainly not "noise" but to come up with something I think "looks good" and "is interesting". Whatever I put in there will contribute to the strength.

The fun/challenging part about design is that, invariably, it gets a range of reaction: Love it to hate it. As 76-914 implied:

At the end of the day, it's my build and I'll (eventually! laugh.gif ) do what appeals to me.

As always, it's a blast working with you guys and, in all seriousness, you're helping me build my car. beerchug.gif
Rand
Just keep doing what you're doing and make it your own. Thanks for entertaining feedback, but do your thing. We are all salivating at your amazing work.
Cracker
Anything you come up with, and eventually settle on, is going to be killer. Hey, I am just a guy...and that means multiple-holes in the rear catches my eye *da truth*! shades.gif

T
Rand
QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 14 2017, 05:33 PM) *

Hey, I am just a guy...and that means multiple-holes in the rear catches my eye *da truth*! shades.gif

T

I'm more of a one hole kind of guy. The extra hole is good for some stimulation, but it's a one way street, cupcake.
tygaboy
AAAAAAAnnd... into the gutter we go...
sheeplove.gif
KMA.gif
bootyshake.gif
Rand
No, please don't. If your mind goes there, I understand. But let's keep this clean and back on track to Chris' build.
Cracker
Hey...I was just trying to get Rudy to show up! biggrin.gif

T

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 14 2017, 09:01 PM) *

AAAAAAAnnd... into the curbandgutter we go...
sheeplove.gif
KMA.gif
bootyshake.gif

Rand
Hah. He'll be here. If there's a good gutter to run into, it's Curb's.
Curbandgutter
QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 14 2017, 06:30 PM) *

Hey...I was just trying to get Rudy to show up! biggrin.gif

T

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 14 2017, 09:01 PM) *

AAAAAAAnnd... into the curbandgutter we go...
sheeplove.gif
KMA.gif
bootyshake.gif



Damn I'm off the boards for a couple of days and you guys run amok!
tygaboy
wacko.gif Zoiks, not sure what that was about but let's get back on track, shall we?

I need to make some progress on final fitment items like the seats and pedals. I took today off work to start on the tunnel mods. The base of the tunnel will essentially mimic the stock one. I'm using 1" x 1.5" tube set on edge. I'll drill holes where the original tunnel spot welded to the floor and plug weld these runners in place.

Started laying things out and will be working on how I'll deal with that small step up in the floor. And there are places where I want to shape these runners to the contours that are stamped in the floor.

So, here we go.

Oh, and the pedals are just sitting there to give me a basic idea of how they may fit, what I'll need to do to brace the floor under them, etc.
tygaboy
Measure, slice a suitable chunk from the tube, bend it and weld the three sides. Dress the weld and... one side done.
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