I'm finding that being away from the car for a couple months has me rethinking some of the stuff I thought was done. I've always had a niggling "I think that could look better..." about the rear shock tower. The top cross bar didn't feel well integrated to me. So I started playing around with how I might box things in. The red outlines where that piece will actually sit.
This design eliminates the "wings" in the stiffening panel and, to my eye, nicely cleans up that whole area.
Plus, it ties the long to the bar to the tower even more.

Get it driving. Then nail down the fancy details.

Well, there is that...

With most projects that would be reasonable but not this one. Also, and perhaps most important, Chris enjoys the "creative strategizing" process more than the actual finishef product itself. Going slightly out on the limb here but I believe I know him well enough to wtite this about him. This project will take time...allot of time (and that is ok). Keep it up Chris, integrate all of these wild plans as you go - in the order you think best. I always (erll, almost always) enjoy the new posts!

Tony

Tony is mostly accurate - I'm about the journey, not the destination.
That said, I do want to get it on the road. It'll be interesting to see how well/not well I balance my propensity for neat new ideas with the boring "gotta do this" work.

Speaking of "gotta do" stuff, here's the final position of the front hoop. With the dash in place, it all but disappears, just like I want.

In the second pic, you can see how I plan to tie the hoop to the steering column support. To get the hoop forward to where I wanted it, I had to notch the steering support sheet metal. You can see my little paper template of the bracket I'll fab to reinforce the support. There will be one of them on each side.

Final pic is the bracket translated into the plasma software.

Oh, and best of all, as you can see, I don't need to relocate the front hood latch! One less thing to do!

Getting there with this chassis stuff...!

Progress!

For sure Tony. I was only poking fun. Seeing Chris' artwork is a joy and we will all love seeing it.

Yikes! Just seeing my post for the first time from the other day...I typed that out from my phone in transit back to the East coast (as a passenger!). Spell checker should've kicked in...

T

Man, it feels sooooooo nice to be back working on this! Such fun...

Got the front hoop/steering support brackets cut and mocked in. Should work just fine. I'm still kicking around how I might tie this hoop in to the front of the car. Whatever I decide, I hope to get the hoop fully welded in this weekend.

Here is something that you may want to consider. This will make your chassis stiffer.
Sheet metal is horrible in punching shear. It is better to transfer loads into it through shear . In this case in order for you to accomplish that I would do as shown in the picture.

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Rudy - Thanks for the input. I'd planned to weld all the seams of the suspension tower boxing so no worries there.
On that lower bar: I'm rethinking my induction/exhaust systems and am close to a decision that will require I redo that entire back panel... At this point, I won't be finalizing anything other than the top cross bar and the aforementioned boxing.
Once I do start back on that area, let me know what you think of what I come up with? Thanks again!

I decided to take today off and was able to get the front hoop mostly done. My buddy Martin needed some welding done on his car so he TIG'd for me while I MIG'd for him. (I think I got the better of THAT deal!)
How f-ing beautiful is his work?

And it turned out GREAT! Just what I wanted: The rear edge of the hoop sits even with the front of the door opening and it all but disappears under the dash. Exactly as I wanted it. Very happy with this result.

And seeing it all in place has me thinking I'll trim off most all of the lower part of those brackets that tie the hoop to the steering column support. Looks a little scary as is.

Bravo!

T

Beautiful scales. Amateur welders blob. Skilled welders scale. Very nice.

I got the front hoop fully welded down then trimmed and tacked in the hoop-to-steering column support tabs. As I mentioned, I opted to lose the lower part that captured the hoop as it extended down below the dash and sorta felt like a potential future leg bitter...

I'm pretty psyched at just how well it all fits together. Here's the dash back in place.
How's that for tidy clearance?! Less than 1/4" gap all the way across.

All that's left is to fabricate a replacement lower dash mount/tab of some sort to replace the factory one. That had to come off as it ran smack into the hoop.

A bit all over the place today. I need to get the seats mounted because I want to have the tube that braces the door bar to the main hoop match the angle of the seat bolsters. Hey, it's the little things. Anyway, I had a couple spots to weld up to finish the rear floor install so I did that then started on the seat mounts.

Then I figured I may as well get the final templates made for the rear suspension tower boxes. I'm always amazed when things go to plan and it all fits just like I want. Here's the same template fit to both sides. It flexes a little but is a good indicator of how matchy match I got things. I'm really pleased at the side-to-side symmetry. Even that little notch for the cross bar pad weld on the outside edge is exactly right side to side.
I've said it before: This is the first time I've tackled a project like this and sometimes it's hard for me to believe it's turning out this well. I'm happy, if you couldn't tell.

Talk about something not important to getting this project running...
As I was pulling the dash so I could work on the cage, the gauge surround caught my eye as something that might be fun to play with.
I've always like the idea of running a small, diagonal set of German flag colored stripes from the front fender opening up over the fender, at some jaunty angle.
I figured I'd see what it'd look like on the gauge surround. Well, it looks like this.
At least with no gauges or any other interior components!
Not quite the right color yellow/gold but it's all I had.

Anyone else done something like this? I'd be interested to see how it looks "finished".

Do you want me to be honest?

T

Rookie stripes on my car... Sounds about right. Unless there something slower/more dangerous than "rookie"!

Install two-sets of them...

T

Well, try as I might to not have gone this way, I've given in and will have to add a bit of "Cracker" to my build.
Hey, it's Tony's old engine so maybe it'll be happier with a similar exhaust set up.
These are just some $150 ebay specials but they are actually quite nice.

Gotta admit, I REALLY like the look. It's even more impactful when you see it in person.

Fits! Fire it up!

As I start getting closer to working on the various systems, I need to decide on gauges. I know folks have had success with the SpeedHut products but, as usual, I'd like something a little different. How about these from Classic Instruments?
Kinda stealthy and heck, they say "auto cross" right on them! It's like an omen!

I'm also toying with running only the tach and speedo in the instrument pod then running individual gauges in the console (that I have yet to design/build).

Again, we'll have to see...

I translated the cardboard template into the plasma system and while it did require some fine tuning with the flap disc, it's a nice fit. I opted not to try and plasma cut the rounded corner. I don't fully trust my ability to program in the radius as it's not consistent. I'll trim it once it's in place.
That said, I did triumph over the 3" hole. It had to be designed/cut as an ellipse to account for the tipped angle of the Tangerine raised pick up.
That was fun...

I tend to like bone stock cars, but that is a nice set up.

Cross bar and seat mounts in. Well, passenger side anyway.

Oh CRAP! I forgot to put the tunnel in first... I hate it when that happens...

I finished the driver's side seat mount and just had to test fit the GT Classics!
This is set to the angle that I'll use to determine the triangulation bar that runs from the door bar to the main hoop.
And this also means I can work on mounting the pedals.
Getting there...

Those seats look great!!!

Make sure those pedals are waaay forward...

T

Amazing build, keep it up!

I'm going to try and design a mounting system that will allow the pedals to be adjusted front to back... wish me luck!

So I started playing with positioning the pedals and determined I'd want a little more leg room. No biggie, just slide the seat back a little bi.... The headrest juuust contacts the main hoop.

In this location, a 6' tall person would likely be comfy. But this hoop design consumes what turns out to be ~ 2" of seat travel - at least with these seats. I don't see that as something I want to give up.

Hmmm. Well, I didn't see that one coming.

A bit of head scratching has convinced me the existing hoop ain't gonna work.
I tossed the 'old' full height hoop in, just to see... Nope, I don't like that either.
I want to have, and be able to remove, all the interior trim.



Back to the drawing board!

...not to mention that the full height bar isn't safe for road use with an open seat like you have! Get your thinker going...or should I say, keep it on!!!

T

Why isn't it safe? Maybe upper body an head being able to toss around and strike the bar? By open seat like he has do you mean a more closed seat is the ones that have the side protectors on each side for your head restraint? Just looking to learn from someone with more knowledge.

Correct. It is a combination of how the drivers head is shrouded; the height of the seat relative to cage work; the type of restraint system used; etc.

My "open seat" reference was not comparing it to a Halo seat (which I believe you thought), rather letting the shoulders and head move to the side so easily is what concerns me. Chris's seats are for a hot rod and there is nothing wrong with that! Below is the diagram of the seats I use...

One wack and you can be dead - big safety issue with cage cars running on the street!

T




Click to view attachment

Well, I've come up with two options.

1. Bend up another hoop that is essentially the same as the current one but is lower so as to sit in the space between the top of the seat and the bottom of the head rest. This would also necessitate bending it such that it popped out then back in to clear the bulge in the firewall.

2. It's a bit hard to explain but essentially moves the hoop 100% into the engine compartment and turns it from a hoop into more just a cross bar.

I'm still thinking on it. but if I can pull off the bending, I think I prefer option 1. It'll give me another place to tie in the console that I'm planning.

Still thinking on this one...

Chris I've nothing to add really but to say this is one damn cool build.
Enjoy your creativity and fabrication work.
Those seats are really cool.
Would individual style hoops work per seat. Styled like the Audi TT.
Just a thought. Have at it.

Here's the latest thinking on the chassis stiffening design.
1. It's a "race rod". This is a term I'm claiming defines a car that has elements of race car-ness but is clearly a "hot rod".
2. Given #1, above, I'm not trying to build something that will pass tech or be the stiffest ever (or even close) cage. I am after something that will be a big improvement over stock and help handle the motor.
3. Bonus points if it's a bit unique and makes me smile.

Initial mock up meets my criteria!
(note the tubes are not positioned exactly, exactly, but you get the idea...)

I'm going to plate the seat belt retractor area and land the angled bar top at that spot. On the back side, I'll remove the factory anchor bolt, plate that side and run a tube from there back to the suspension tower.

This saves me trying to fab a complex, multi-bend compound tube and eliminates having to deal with another hole in the firewall.

Keeping with the race rod approach, I'm going to stay with the stock, 3-point retractable seat belt.

With the cage location, I need to move the seat belt retractor. I talked with Seat Belt Planet and they can add the needed length to the belt so I can relocate the retractor to the base of the firewall.

So long as the retractor mechanism is mounted in the same physical orientation as stock, I'm good to go.

The retractor is just sitting there, not attached. I still need to fab the mounting location but again, you get the idea.

Mock up of the location for the shifter.

Feels like I'm making progress again.

I want to do some additional "triangluation" for the angled bar so I stated playing around with what a perforated panel might look like. This is the first hack/sketch so...

It'd echo the engine compartment panel design but I think this time I'd use 2 mirror image pieces and seam weld together the inner edges of the dimpled holes, making a hollow panel about 1/4" thick. Plenty strong.

And worst case, I can always use a tube to triangulate.

The saga continues.

I like the plan. It will be way better than stock but still give you easy enough access. Good choice.

Dion - Great minds... I've bent up a pair of "roadster hoops" that are, for lack of a better description, 90 degree bars that run from the seat belt retractor location, behind the seats, right behind the head rest supports, then down, paralleling the shape of the seats. They form the rear-most part of the tunnel design. I'm just not sure I like it.

I'm trying to be sure I don't back myself into a corner with things like being able to create an access panel in the firewall, etc.

This build is really forcing me to think as many steps ahead as I possibly can.

The whole side-to-side bar is turning into a big challenge. I need as much room as I can get inside the car for seat adjustment and safety. And I need room in the engine compartment for the induction system I'm contemplating.
So it's not a slam dunk as to where it'll best fit or what design will work best. Then there's the whole "do I really even need it?" question.

But hey, if this stuff was easy, what fun would it be?
I'm really enjoying the challenge!

I really like the direction you are going...only one design element to consider (given your point #1 above). The horizontal bar over 4th he rocker does not have to be that high...not even close. Consider positioning it at 1/2 the current height or keep the rear height the same and taper it down to the front. Can you "mock" it up like this repost pictures? Looking great Chris!

T

Tony - Thanks for the encouraging words. I appreciate all comments and especially from those with experience. And as always, your wish, sir, is my command.

Obviously, I didn't have the correct length supports.

Looks wise? I happily admit, I really like it!

I think I'll bend up a new tube that runs all the way from the from to the back and see how that looks. It'll soften the look at the transition angle and better match the shape of the seat.

Now, if I could just convince Rudy to work up his math on the difference in stiffness between these two designs...!
(seriously, though Rudy, that's impressive stuff to us who don't know a cosine from our elbow.)

Double post...

Hey Chris...have you ever thought about something like this???

Tony

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