Hello everyone. I am the proud second owner of a '76 914 2.0. It has been in the custody of my Dad and me since 1987. It is close to mint condition. It has 57,000 original miles. I replaced the goofy gigantic steering wheel and the wheels - other than that it is all original. The paint is near perfect, there is no rust and there are no known mechanical issues.

My first world problem is this: I have always wanted a 6. I want more off-the-line speed. I want that perfect sleeper. Given how few nearly-perfect 914 specimens there are out there, is it dumb/treasonous for me to consider converting my 2.0 to a 6? If it is not, can any of you give me a ballpark of what such a conversion, done correctly, would cost? Thank you for your opinions.

Probably best to leave it alone, but I'm putting a six in my pretty nice '73 2.0.

Hard to say, post pictures if you want the full forum treatment.

To each their own, and the passage of time may make this personal opinion—and that's all it is—seem less than smart, but...

If we were talking about a clean, super original example of the most desirable 914-4s, such as a 1973-1974 2.0, or even an insanely original 1973 1.7, I'd have a tough time with a six conversion. But I tend to view the big-bumper 1975-1976 914s as the best basis for a hot rod, as they had all the final updates and are really nice, well sorted cars yet not as desirable in the market's eyes—mainly due to the big bumpers. And if you delete those, you've already started cutting the car... With your 1976 car, you have the movable passenger seat, the later vents, the good windows and top (even if they come with the heavier/safer doors), the relocated fuel pump, and other improved bits. You lose some cool early 914 features, such as silver-dot gauges, but these can be added back if you wish. And you say the car doesn't need bodywork or paint, or interior work? Yum.

And you say it has family history, so it isn't likely to be for sale, either? I wouldn't think twice. Well, except for one thing: A hot Type IV might give you the juice you're after without making major mods. If you are inclined to keep the stock bumpers, then I'd call Jake for a healthy Type IV. I almost went that route, until an old friend convinced me to convert my mildly modded 1973 1.7 to a 2.2 six. The sound alone makes the conversion worthwhile to me, but I still need to sort a lot about the car...it isn't quite the flickable thing it was as a four—I can feel the added weight, and the car now feels more serious. Exotic and special, too, but some of the light-heartedness was lost in the bargain. No regrets, but be aware there are tradeoffs.

YMMV! Have fun with your car.

Oh yeah...

Cruise up to Grand Rapids before the snow comes and you can take a look at a 3.2 conversion.

The engine is the biggest cost. 3.2 prices have gone up quite a bit. Consider $9000 and if you can get one for less, great. Smaller engines can be had for cheaper, but your savings can quickly evaporate if repairs are necessary. That being said, most 3.2 engines are in need of a top end rebuild now.

Oil tank is about $1200 complete.
Exhaust is about $700.
Engine tin is $1000.
Clutch conversion components $600.
Motor mount is $400.
Muffler is $500.

That's about $4500 in conversion parts.

Front oil coolers are a good idea, that's around $1500.
6-cylinder tach is on the list too.

As far as labor is concerned, you'll need to:
-Weld in the motor mount.
-Remove the 4-cyl mounts (not necessary, but nice).
-Convert the wiring and mount the ECU/DME.
-For a 3.2, notch the transmission for the crank trigger sensors.
-Adapt the shifter.
-Plumb the oil system.
-Install the front oil cooler.
-Engine maintenance: valve clearances, reseal intake, replace fuel lines, etc.
-Adapt the throttle cable/linkage.
-Convert the on-engine oil cooler for 914.

This is a fairly complete list, but by no means exhaustive. An earlier carbed engine with a documented rebuild can be converted a bit easier (no wiring, no front oil cooler).

Keep your super clean car original, and get one that already has been modded a bit (Or needs some work) to convert.

Keep your car stock and drive.
Get a second and build your fire breathing dragon!

I'm right in the middle of McMark's dissertation, physically and financially.

Not for the poor or faint of heart.

This also doesn't include upgraded brakes to stop the "go" or 5 lug wheels if you want to complete the package. Slope gets slippery fast.

If you have the money then make the switch...... But get rid of those horrendous bumpers first.....

Why bastardize a beautiful original 914/4 with sentimental value, only to make a bastardized non-original wanna-be 914/6?

The 914/4 is only original once so don't blow it. If you want a 6, save your beans and get a 6. Or buy someone else's conversion.

your car do what you want. having said that. a 2/3 owner low milage 914 will be worth more now and later left as it is. you could probably get a pretty good tub and convert to a 6 for similar money. my experience has been that a conversion does does not recoup the cost of doing it. you can easily spend $15000.00 converting your 10-12000.00 car to a six. i traded a a motorcylce for a running 1970 911t sporto and a 1974 914 2.0l with the intention of doing a conversion. with all good running motor i calculated 8-10000 in parts that i would have to get and and alot of rehab on the 914. redoing the 911 as original and just building a 2.0l hot rod out of the 914 would be cheaper and more econimically beneficial.

A mint stock car will be more valuable in the future.

A 200hp car will need brake upgrades, which means 5 lug susp swap and new wheels. Then you will want fatter tires to hold the power and you're tempted to flare the rear fenders, which means new paint. So at this point you might as well just buy a converted car that already has everything it needs.

Then there is the thing where 200hp is fun but only for a while, then it's upgrade time to bigger everything lol.

So yah, drive it today and be happy you can. Many of us are stuck in upgrade land.

... me too.

I have a back-dated '75 with a 2.1L /4 for the hot rod, and a stock '71 1.7L, although we're mildly increasing displacement to 1.9L, and some reversible cosmetic upgrades (wheels & exhaust).

Doesn't make sence to date blondes if you really like brunettes.
Do the six if that's where your head is.
If you want a really nice conversion, set aside $20K+
That's just for parts. Find someone who knows how to do the conversion.
Plan it all out, order what you need and get it done so your driving next summer.
Jake Raby charges $20k for his 4 cylinder engines, so no savings there, just a different path.

That alone would make me want to leave my '73 1.7L original. The only non-original thing I can see on the car is the exhaust and stereo head unit, both of which I think are acceptable "upgrades". I plan on putting on one of those quad-tip Monza exhausts, hopefully to get a combo of a little bit more hp and those nice looking quad tips poking out the back. But other than that, it is what it is.

I'd have to agree with the others that have chimed in for keeping that one alone, if anything for sentimental value. Get another one that either has the engine conversion already done, or one that can be used for the conversion project.

I've seen some V8 conversions that have used the 215 Buick/Rover engine, instead of the typical SBC, and those have piqued my interest, lol! But going that route adds an extra complication factor for the cooling system, among other things. Whenever my brain starts going down that path, I just pop the hood on my V8 Sonoma and that train stops!

It's your car, do what you want with it. But I'd leave it alone, enjoy it for what it is, and if you really want a 6, get one that's already been converted.

I am not a huge fan of the type 4 mostly because of sound which is weird.. But that's what kills the experience for me no matter what exhaust you have it also the same reason I would never own a wrx. I am currently working on my own conversion on a car that was rough and is a long term conversion.. I don't feel bad at all cutting it up as there is nothing left original.

Now that said I make a good amount of the conversion parts to do the job that I sell to world members and beyond and can give you an approximate cost.

Oil tank and filler neck with oil filter console is $850
Heat exchangers currently 1650 but heading to 1900 shortly
Engine mount 300
Engine sheet metal 400

I guess my point is you should do it if you want to you only live once.

If you want a PROJECT, then you might try to find a car that needs a small amount of repair... maybe $5000 car. Then start converting.

Or I like Jeff's idea, to buy one with a 6 in it.

They might not be required, but you should add a 5 lug conversion to McMark's list. Just guessing, but that could be $1500 plus the 5 lug wheels for another $1000 minimum.

I tend to agree your better off to leave your family car alone and find a project that was completed or near completed and take it over. It depends upon when you plan to be driving the Six....now or 5 years from now.

If I were looking for a Six to drive for fun, and a real Six was not an option, I would definitely be looking for an already done car that was running and together and just needed some finish work. The parts to put these together add up quickly. Additionally, if I was sourcing a motor, I would want to have it gone through and freshened up to make sure it was a good motor that would be dependable and run as it should.

We see cars like described above coming on the market all the time as peoples' circumstances change all of the time. I would bet for $30K you could get a very nice conversion car that needs little to make it what you really want. Then just drive and enjoy.

Good luck and best wishes as you decide upon your path.

Leave it alone. Buy a second generation Honda S2000 for "faster" fun - make you wife happy too. Save your money (and the car)...

Tony

To me this is like not banging your hot girlfriend ,because you want to keep her in perfect shape for the next guy.

Personally, IF the option to buy another car to modify is not an option, I would consider something like a Raby 2270. 170HP should be plenty of go fast fun in a 914.

I think the preference however would to leave the family heirloom alone and hopefully it remains in your family for as long as possible. Find a project roller, a completed conversion, or as others mentioned, some other go fast car. Heck maybe a 944 Turbo, it may be front engine, but it's still perfectly balanced and a ton of fun to drive with 220HP and you can find them for relatively little money, though they seem to be rising in price a bit.

Pictures please. What color?

Paul

THIS. There is no such thing as just a "6 conversion". Even on the motor, you want to do little things like electronic ignition, Webers, ported heads etc. Adds up fast.

Then you look at the chassis, trans, suspension, wheels....it basically ALL needs to be upgraded. All of it. There isn't ONE stock thing on a 914/4 that is really appropriate for a 6.

My rebuild is over 70K and counting. No old or worn out shit at all. Everything that could have been upgraded.....WAS.

I'm running stock brakes on 4 lug wheels and 195 tires. Car handles and stops great!

If it's a mint unmolested car, I would leave it stock. However my personal experience with big 4's sucks... As it gets harder to find non rust cars, more people will be tempted to modify a mint car for more HP. LS, Subaru, six, etc... But I agree... Do you want to build a way cool classic air cooled six, that you will never get your money back on or just buy a more modern car for half the cost that is faster, has powered everything and has heat and AC?

This is the way to go!

Ha! .. isn't it more like keeping your beautiful dependable wife 'and' having a really hot girlfriend to bang whenever you want!!? What more could you want!!

You should start with the best car you can. So, it sounds like you're in good shape to start.

While some might say a conversion is a wannabe, many conversions are actually better than the original 914-6. Especially the 3.0, 3.2, and 3.6.
Yes, you will spend a good deal of money doing a conversion. Is it worth it? Take McMark up on his invitation to Grand Rapids. Mine is incredibly fun with its 3.2. It has all of the manners of my '84 Carerra and all of the style that was the 914, and it handles better!

This was, by the description of some when I got it, the most original 914 they'd ever seen. It is a '75 and when it rolled in to my garage it was a one owner 73K mile car...

Sell it now. Before prices drop more. Buy a complete car that does what you want. That's my 2 cents.

If its really original, I would stick with stock. Just remember, 356s and early 911s were comparatively cheap just s few years ago.

If you want a six, as do I, get a cheap roller and start there.

My $0.02.

Konrad

Or buy this and save it!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Porsche-914-c...60966?forcerrpt

Good option but prices have already dropped - you missed the delusional top market.

T

I think that is a pretty fair price..

I converted my dads 914-4 to a six drove it a long time 50k mlies, convereted back to 4 banger, gave it back to my Mom...then she gave it to my son who sold it,,,,,The new owner had a hot T4 engine built , electronic 4 throttle body injection ...and now its getting a 3.0-6...round and round it go's where it stops ,,,Is Up too you....

It's from Auto Atlanta, so it's gotta be a good deal!!

Always seems to be a good deal to be found in that town...

A lot of good opinions here, and I respect all of them even if I don't agree with them.

But I'm with Rob on this one. Why?

1. When building a hot rod, it's better (for the builder) to start with a great example of a less desirable model or year than to start with a car that needs everything. Talk about expensive—paint and body can easily consume $20-30k, or far more, and you still don't end up with a car as nice as a really original car. Better in some ways—maybe—but I'd rather have original paint and interior every time.

2. If was building another six conversion, a very nice original 1975 1.8 or 1975-1976 2.0 would absolutely be my choice as a basis. I do feel a bit differently when we begin to talk about rare AND desirable models. An acquaintance is looking at Canepa-izing a 959 and doing a complete color change inside and out. Dark blue non-metallic on brown leather was sounding great to me until I saw the car in silver and metallic gray leather. I hate metallic gray leather, and silver 959s are "common," but...it's a 959. A 1976 914 will never be a 959, or a 1967 911S or a 914-6 or a 1973-1974 914 2.0 imho.

3. More isn't always the answer. Some people don't want two sports cars, and especially not two versions of the same sports car. When I thought about converting my 914-4 to six cylinders, part of the rationale that put me over the edge was I could only see budget and space in my life for one vintage Porsche—not two—and while I hadn't been interested in converting my car up to that point, it made sense to put "the" Porsche engine in the 914 that was taking up the one spot I had for an old car. Every time I start the flat six, I smile. Of course, there are other similar lines of logic besides space—such as bandwidth, insurance, upkeep, etc.—so putting the engine you want in the car you have, rather than adding another car, makes more sense for some.

Anyway, to the OP's question: I don't view it as an offense. It's a 914. And it was meant to be fun above all else. If you'll have more fun with the car running on six cylinders—and if the conversion process will put your father and you on a new road together, adding sentimental value—then for me the choice would be easy. It doesn't sound like "price" is in your objectives for the car. It sounds like value is. Only you can determine what that means for you—and you've got some great feedback here that may benefit you and others, too.

Again, a lot of great opinions from a lot of experienced people in a great community. Did I say,

Hmm, lots of opinions, guess I will add mine.

For a mint original, remember that they are only a virgin once and mint, unmodified cars will always command a premium.

Even with a nice starter, the cost of things like conversions can run pretty high. Like restorations, you can often buy what you want for less than what you will put into one.

If I really wanted a 6, I would probably sell the mint 2.0 and use the proceeds to buy one that has already been converted to a high standard. This way I preserve the original, get what i wanted, and still probably save $$$ in the process.

That said, it is your car so do what you want with it. To paraphrase my old drill Sergeant. "Opinions (including mine) are like a-holes, everyone has one and they all stink".

I'm an old crank I guess.
A beautiful original car should be preserved.
I'm in the process of converting a '75 and showing no mercy.....but the car was no peach.
I say get another car. Have it both ways.
I bet your father would agree.

Rust-wise it is better than what I started with.... mine was 1/10th the cost and it had a motor, albeit was a -4.

This has gone on long enough...



* one photo in this whole thread and it's not even the OP car???
** thanks for the effort conedodger

Essentially I said your high school sweetheart is a catch and you should enjoy her company
My reasoning being my car resembles a porn star with a tattoo addiction

Simple question: Is this car an investment, or the one you want to drive and enjoy? If the former, find another to become your dream. If the latter, stop asking and do with it what you want.

I converted my near pristine 1971 with 65k miles to a 3.0 with a 5 lug big brake conversion with Elephant suspension and I positively love the car. Before it was a pleasant little runner but now it has been transformed into a fast Canyon carving machine that keeps up in the corners with many new P. Cars but then I am not intending to sell it. I didn't buy it as an investment but a way to maximize fun on a budget while enjoying the cool factor of doing it in a 914. Your mileage may vary