Got me heads back from Jeff "Sixnotfour" Hines

They came out GREAT and I can now start putting back together my 2.2

Had a broken exhaust stud replaced.. That was the deciding factor for the topend rebuild.

Now the fun begins,
can't wait to see it in.

KT

This is the car I am putting the SIX in

I swapped out the Dials for Fuchs I have been polishing them when I need a break from the engine rebuild

Nice time sert install, flat, flush, must have been done on a bridgeport or mill. Good work. Make sure you use some anti/never seize on the exhaust threads. I use copper nuts, but have headers, They come form Wurth 12mm and flanged, they work perfect.


Erik

Kerry,
Looks great. If you need an extra set of hands send me an email.
Larry

QUOTE (Thorshammer @ Apr 23 2005, 06:01 PM)

Nice time sert install, flat, flush, must have been done on a bridgeport or mill. Good work. Make sure you use some anti/never seize on the exhaust threads. I use copper nuts, but have headers, They come form Wurth 12mm and flanged, they work perfect. Erik

Those "copper" nuts are steel, plated with copper, and the copper on the threads wears off when you install them. The Cap'n

Are those side markers? Got a closser picture of them?

Getting there. Not bad for the Sunday after Hershey

Heads and Cam towers are ON!!

need some 935 rocker seals?

QUOTE (TimT @ Apr 24 2005, 03:50 PM)

need some 935 rocker seals?

Everybody needs 935 seals.

Now comes the fun part....valve train.... "assembly is the reverse". I had 3 extra new rocker shafts standing by JIC.....used 2 of em.

keep up the pix

QUOTE

Everybody needs 935 seals. biggrin.gif

hehe

my way of saying I have a few sets of 935 seals... want some?

How do these mystical 935 seals differ from 911 stuffs?

im a /4 guy i guess

The stock 9eleben had no seals on the rocker shafts.
The 935s did. When rebuilding a 911 motor, it's a good idea to put these in. They will seal up irregularities in the bores that are in put there by ham fisted mechanics like me.

Aaron they arent really mystical at all, the 935 rocker seals are o-rings that fit in the grooves in the rocker shafts.. they are not your normal o-ring though.. the OD is cut flat.

They help those pesky rocker shaft leaks on /6 engines

I have pics.. somewhere LOL

The wrench that rebuilt my 2.7 (rebuilt 9 years previously & sat on a shelf) put case sealant in the rocker bores. Getting that shit out....not to mention the shafts, was a trial....there were involved. The bores were pretty well dinged up when I was done. I ended up "butterflying" the bores, used the 935 seals, and made damn sure the shafts were properly seated.. Hasn't leaked a drop of oil.....from there.

JP, I am considering rebuilding my 3.0. Most people I talk to are trying to scare me away from the idea. I would like to do it as the experience gained by a successful rebuild would end my fears if I every had to dig into it again. Should I try it?

935 seals Sounds like a plan. What are the seal part numbers?

I'll need to take a look at the rocker shafts and see if the PO used them. It may be one of those "While I am there..." things and I'll put them on.

I plan on putting the timing chain housings on and the cams in tonight, after work.

Photos to follow

Looks Sweet!!!

QUOTE (iamchappy @ Apr 25 2005, 04:15 AM)

JP, I am considering rebuilding my 3.0. Most people I talk to are trying to scare me away from the idea. I would like to do it as the experience gained by a successful rebuild would end my fears if I every had to dig into it again. Should I try it?

Go for it.It ain't rocket science. I found it to be....interesting . The sweat didn't start rolling down the crack of my ass till I turned the key

Cool, another six!

WorldPac - calls em rocker shaft orings P/N 911-099-103-52

I am sure some one on East coast has em, if not let me know.

Lookin good

Thanks..

Here is what I did to keep track of the valve train.

ZIP bags for each valve (1I, 1E, 2I, 2E, 3I, 3E..etc)

Might be overkill but better safe the sorry.

QUOTE (TimT @ Apr 24 2005, 08:54 PM)

my way of saying I have a few sets of 935 seals... want some?

i think they actually started with the 911RSR; there are pictures in Anderson...

i can use a couple of sets if the price is right...

Okay I am doing my Sproket Alignment and using Wayne's book.

The only things I have done to this engine is a basic top-end rebuild. I would have thought this would be correct since I haven't changed anything about this alignment. I kept the two side in seperate containers until they went back on

I am getting a intermediate shaft distance of 52.02'ish (face of case to shaft). My right sprocket comest to 51.06'ish (case to face of sprocket). I did this 4-5 times and they are all very close to each other.

To meet my delta of .25mm I need to get to 51.75'ish which is 3 shims less then I have right now.

Could the engine have ran well fo rthe PO if it was that far off? Mayeb I am missing something here?

Cheers

QUOTE

Could the engine have ran well fo rthe PO if it was that far off? Mayeb I am missing something here?

Yes the engine would run just fine with the sprockets misaligned.

It would wear the sprockets/chains more quickly though.

Okay I found out my dizzy is from a "E" (0231159 006) engine and I believe I have a "T" engine. The PO said it was a "T" so I took it at that.

I have the cam timing set but still have the dial indicator set up on the intake valve. Can I just measure the Intake valve travel and compare my measured value to the specs for the "T" and "E" cams?

The only markings I can see now are the dot and an "03" stamped on the end of the cam.

Cheers

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ May 11 2005, 01:02 PM)

Okay I found out my dizzy is from a "E" (0231159 006) engine and I believe I have a "T" engine. The PO said it was a "T" so I took it at that. I have the cam timing set but still have the dial indicator set up on the intake valve. Can I just measure the Intake valve travel and compare my measured value to the specs for the "T" and "E" cams? The only markings I can see now are the dot and an "03" stamped on the end of the cam. Cheers

'course that'll only tell you what your cam is, not your pistons.
but you had your heads off, yes - did they look like T pistons?

anyway - sure - go for it...

but you should know that the valve timimg specs are significantly different for T cams as opposed to E cams...

T cams time to 2,5mm +/- 0,2 TDC overlap with 0,1mm clearance
E cams time to 3,15mm +/- 0,15 TDC overlap with 0,1mm clearance

T total lift, intake, is 36,25mm
E total lift, intake, is 36,58mm

so ya better measure real accurately.
(the BIG difference is on the exhaust, and the duration...)

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ May 11 2005, 09:02 AM)

I have the cam timing set but still have the dial indicator set up on the intake valve. Can I just measure the Intake valve travel and compare my measured value to the specs for the "T" and "E" cams?

Yes. There is enuff diference between the 2 to tell which it is.
Ya prolly shoulda done that before you set the timing, but no harm, no foul.

I measured a set of suspected T cams with a pair of calipers.....figuring I'd get within .010-.020.... top of lobe to backside minus base circle X 1.5 (I'm told that 1.5 ratio is actully varible by .01 either way due to the actual point of contact rides is about a .08 wide band)...came out with in .003

Well since the engine case numbers were "T" and the PO said they were "T" I assumed ( I know) it was a "T".

I know my cams are timed to the 2.5mm spec right now. So the total lift from closed to full open is 36.25mm.

I'll check that now. Looks like that wors out to be 1.427" for "T" and 1.440 for the "E". Wish me luck

Ah.....just in case you're calibrated in English units, total lift at the valve for the T is .387", .408 for the E per Mr. Anderson's book.

(edit) -.004 lash.

I am getting .379 on the #4 intake and .379 (a bit under .3785) on #1 intake.

Looks like I do not have an "E" cam in there.

the spec book lists those numbers (~36mm) in a big table column labelled "Cam Lift" but i'm having a hard time understanding what that means, exactly - unless it's the total linear distance between the bottom of th sbase circle and the top of the lobe.

the E Exhaust lift (per Anderson) is 0.393" (which could be 0.397" if you didn't account for the 0.004" valve lash). so the "gotta ask" hard questions: are you sure you're on the intake valve, and are you sure you have the Right cam on the right side, and the Left cam on the Left side ?

(not questioning your abilities - but - gotta ask - and if you *did* confuse them - first - you wouldn't be the first, and second - wouldn't you rather know now rather than when the engine wanted to turn backward ?

No problem on the questions.

- I am measuring from the intake valves (the ones on the top)
- I put the "Big V" cam on the left and the " tight V" cam on the right. The Left is 1,2,3 cylinders (Left looking at the fan).

A few vairables.
Lash counts as My edit says above.
The dial indicator must be rock solid.
If it is the long travel type with a straight plunger & about a .150 point, it must be as perpendicular as you can get it to the spring cap or you'll get a bit of cosine error. ......wear on a used cam is gonna effect it also.

I'd say your well with in the probability field (.004), me thinks.

I am using the "Z" tool to hold the dial. Not sure when the dial was last calibrated but it seemed okay and YES I do have a long travel dial. It measures .001 up to 2" of travel.

I'll breakdown the setup and retake the measurements with no valve lash.

Okay I now have .384" with no valve lash, the cam is used so that seems okay for the "T" spec cam.

Looks like my valve lash was .005 before. I guess I need to plan on more drag on the feeler gauge next time.

So since I have a "T" spec cam and a "E" spec dizzy what performance issues will I expect?

Does anyone have a timing mark template for a non-914/6 flywheel? Seems like most people just say to put the two flywheels next to each other and just xfer the marks BUT... I don't have a real 914/6 flywheel to do that with

Cheers

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ May 12 2005, 11:14 AM)

Does anyone have a timing mark template for a non-914/6 flywheel?

since the flywheel is out of the car, you can very carefully measure the distance around the outside. when you divide that by 360 (the number of degrees in the circle) you'll have a number that indicates the distance per degree. T's time to 35* total advance, so for sure you want one mark there, and one mark at TDC (Z1). (for comparison, E's time to 30* BTDC -- might be a good idea to put a mark there too, because if the E's dizzy has less total mechanical advance that the T's, an E distributor timed for 35* total advance *may* give you more static advance than you'd like...)

QUOTE

So since I have a "T" spec cam and a "E" spec dizzy what performance issues will I expect?

i'll have a look at the 2,2 workshop manuals this weekend and see if i can scan the advance curves for you...

Okay I am working on the Webers this weekend for my 2.2T

The carbs have:
Idle____50
Mains__ 135
Airs ____180
F-tubes__F26
Venturi__32mm


Seems like PMO and other sources like:
Idle____55
Mains__ 125
Airs ____180
F-tubes__F26
Venturi__30mm

I managed to track down some 30mm Vent's BUT what will be the effects of larger mains (too rich?) and smaller idle's ( Lean?).

Cheers

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ May 14 2005, 03:05 PM)

I managed to track down some 30mm Vent's BUT what will be the effects of larger mains (too rich?) and smaller idle's ( Lean?).

i'd use the 32's and only back down to 30 if you have a bad off-idle bog.
use the big mains and do plug checks, especially if your fuel mileage remains bad after break-in. fresh engines can use a bit richer mixture...

too-small idles will give you popping through the intakes, crappy uneven idle, and more of that off-idle bog, because Webers traditionally have iffy transition circuits.

if you use the small venturiis and the big mains it may go soft (overrich) at very high load, in which case a 185 air correction might be the ticket.

remind me what flavor of carbs you have ?

(my 2,0 914.6 was running 35mm venturiis and it ran great...)

QUOTE

Does anyone have a timing mark template for a non-914/6 flywheel?

Here's how I did mine.

The pulley has the marks. Line up each mark with the split between each of the case halves.
For example: set the mark on the pulley so TDC is at 12 o'clock ( lined up with case split ). Then go around the back of the motor and scribe a nice line on the flywheel with a Dremel or something you like to scratch with in line with the case split.

Move the pulley to each mark and repeat the marking on the flywheel.

I made each 120 degree mark a yellow line and TDC a yellow "T". The 35 or 30 degree mark is a red line.

these marks will prove to be useful for valve adjusts.

KT

Thanks

IIRC I have IDA 40's but I'll run out and look. The Carbs were set up for a 2.4 and I am putting them on a 2.2.

Been messing with the float adjustment for the last hour. The tab is SUPER sensitive. I am trying to get the 18mm at he tab and 12.75'ish at the float.. I'll get it but it is a PITA not having the correct float tool.

QUOTE

The tab is SUPER sensitive

Whatever you do, DON'T touch the tabs!!!

Adjustment is super fast and easy by removing/adding shims under the fuel inlet needle valve.

Get the fuel level test vial kit from HPH overnight.
It comes with all the shims and instructions.
Rich Bontempi has magical shipping abilties.

KT

What's the issue with the tabs, breaking? I one carb set and have one to go.

As you know there are a lot of nuts that hold the carb top on, plus the gasket.

Taking it off and on is a big pain and you really can't check the fuel level in the bowl anyway.

QUOTE

one carb set and have one to go

With the shim and sight vial, you just remove the needle valve. Add and remove shims to set float bowl height.
It's good to check the fuel level with the motor running.

The drain plugs on the side of each bowl is for the vial.

KT

here's a little pic

KT

QUOTE (J P Stein @ May 11 2005, 09:28 AM)

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ May 11 2005, 09:02 AM) I have the cam timing set but still have the dial indicator set up on the intake valve. Can I just measure the Intake valve travel and compare my measured value to the specs for the "T" and "E" cams? Yes. There is enuff diference between the 2 to tell which it is. Ya prolly shoulda done that before you set the timing, but no harm, no foul. I measured a set of suspected T cams with a pair of calipers.....figuring I'd get within .010-.020.... top of lobe to backside minus base circle X 1.5 (I'm told that 1.5 ratio is actully varible by .01 either way due to the actual point of contact rides is about a .08 wide band)...came out with in .003

Why don't you just LOOK at the numbers on the cams? They're clearly embossed on the shafts, and visible from the openings in the cam towers. I think you'll find that E cams hit the T pistons (I did, with Solex grind cams, which are about the same as E cams), so it's unlikely that they are if the engine was running and you didn't change any major parts. The Cap'n