How waterproof can a 914 really be made?

Can roof and window leaks be totally eliminated??

Thanks

Well, considering that the factory added drain holes to some parts of the car i'd say your chances are somewhat slim ...

When I used my car as a DD, I kept a towel in it so my leg wouldn't get wet

Like tight enough to go through the drive thru car wash?

YES!





















If you don't mind getting totally soaked...

It's not a question of if water can be kept out, it's more of a matter of what % of water can be kept out.

I guess coming from what I've been told is the best supplier of replacement rubber, then I should expect winter driving to be a little damp ?

Exactly!

Flex Seal! itll float a boat with a screen door for a bottom

A member here told me at last Hershey that Teeners have always leaked. Even when they were brand new. He's had his teener since his dad bought it new in the 70's and it leaked then.

Made me feel a little better about having to keep those little hand towels in the car.

Interesting, is that a big bumper GT rally car? Front pic?

Damn sure wayner used that pic to be funny and it's not his car.
First clue is that's not a Canadian licence plate.

The only 914 that I had that didn't leak was 9140431205 that had the original 1st generation window seals. I never took it through a car wash though.

My first 6 conversion had all new factory seals and I couldn't ever get it to completely seal up, which is why I came up with the first 914 Umbrella cover in 1994

Prior to making the cover, my rock n roll solution was to rip black duct tape lengthwise into long strips and tape it along the window edge. The car was always garaged, and occasional use, so I would only do that when I was away from home and it was going to rain. Didn't work so well when everything was wet though

I've used umbrella covers on both my 914s and 911 Targa, and find them to be great if the car has to be kept outside. Careful adjustments to the door windows do minimize the leaks, but a towel is always nice to have.

And yes, don't take one through a commercial car wash!

Well,. they are drier than a MGB,..thats for sure..!! FM

Unfortunately ,no, that orange car is not mine. It's a rally car back in the day. (Thanks Mark Henry

Here is my car.
(Apparently it leaked a bit)

I'll be updating the thread in the new year

QUESTION:
In order of percentage of success, versus worst offenders, which area can be made more watertight than others and which are the worst that can never be solved?
(Which parts of the window seals, roof etc?)


Now THIS is a hell hole!

Along the same lines, how big or small of a problem is water getting into the engine bay through the grill on a rainy day or during washing? I know there are many engine configurations in 914's these days and I'm sure that some are more sensitive to water than others.

One way to keep the intrusion of water to a minimum would be to ditch the targa top and weld a steel roof on. You would still need to get creative with the rubber seals around the door windows though.

Maybe Mark can design some wind/rain deflectors for 914s ... like vent shade makes

Click to view attachment

A fixed roof is the answer..... with rain gutters.
Vent shades ? not for me, same category as door edge guards and those fugly
ding guards.

With a big enough tube of silicone caulking, I can make any 914 waterproof. Some may require 2 tubes.

............er, move to So Kalefornacation since it never rains here....except today

Yep ... and the high winds have a nasty habit of forcing the rain water into the car ... ask me how I know

Hydro-lock is a real possibility in a 914-6

I wonder why nobody ever came out with an after-market rear-facing rear deck lid scoop for 914s like they made for 911s and 912s.

They were pretty rare, mostly saw them on 912s ... I believe I still have one packed away somewhere.

As this thing gets rebuilt over the winter I'm willing to be the Guinean pig for a few hairbrained watertight ideas if anyone has them.

(I'm going after functionality not originality set let the ideas fly and I'll report back here. - drip rails may be on the list)

Though anything is possible, I don't think the 914-6 is particularly subject to hydro lock as the factory air cleaner does a good job of diverting water to the outer parts of the sealed engine and the snorkel points slightly down to drain any water (as well as a drain in the bottom of the main filter housing). Folks with earlier K&N filter housings (before the Watershed design came out) may have had issues, but these are really pretty well sealed in the engine compartment.

Passengers, not as much!

IIRC, the roof section from a 924/944 can be used to fab a permanent steel hardtop - if you're game

My first 914 was a '74 1.8 liter, white with black interior. We were the 2nd owner after the first sold it after 10 months. Had it for 6 years. Loved that car. It NEVER got wet inside. Oh ............ now I remember it was always garaged. My bad.

These get driven in the rain?

Have a good friend who has owned his own Porsche shop for 25 years. He has an original 6 he drove off the lot and his own 914 authentic GT undergoing a full restoration. He just sold another real 6 that took four years for a complete nut and bolt restoration using genuine Porsche parts which he had squirreled away over the years. All the seals were new and with the top up, it made as much wind noise inside as my '71. Not air tight and this guy is a anal fanatic when it comes to perfect fit and finish. Epilogue: He sold the restored 6 to an investment group for 6 figures and change, and the 6 is now sadly locked away in a warehouse awaiting another rise in values. He continues to work on his GT as time allows.

So, if it had a steel roof ( no targa) would there still be leaks? Is the design of the window seals that bad and if so which area leaks?

(Or is it just the roof?)

BTW, just so there is no confusion, unlike the historic orange car earlier in this thread, mine was just a run of the mill 1975 2.0, so don't worry, I'm not molesting anything special

Interesting question,one I never asked because I never read any reference to it being a real problem.
However having owned a sunroof 944 and several earlier BMW's with sunroof's I'am not expecting to be surprised,my car leaked several times under a car cover during heavy winter storms,I traced it to the top horizontal window seals and bad alignment of the window glass.
My doors had been dissembled when the car was restored,I found both window frames out of alignment to the seals,I have since adjusted them and installed 914rubber top seals which IMO are a better design and seal for the glass.
Funny how things haven't really progressed as much in automotive design as we would like ,I recently had to remove all the sunvisor trim in my girlfriends 2007 VW Eos and clear blocked sunroof drains which really aren't a great design.

current terminology," I'm building an Outlaw "

Who do I look like, Rod Emery or something ?

The targa top is the main reason the leak issues exist. You have an extra section that is removable, that will flex with the car. You can't make the 100% waterproof. I have owned several 944s, even make the sunroof seal for the late 944s. They like the 928 and any other steel roof cars are about 100%.
You can get them to the point that they can be left outside and not have to worry about having a swimming pool when you come back. Honestly, the prospect of putting a steel roof on to "solve" the "problem" I don't get. The problem is not that bad. If you like a steel roof, yes it can be made more secure, but it's not a 914 at some point. I live in Oregon and most of my 914's are kept outside. If I leave it for awhile I do use a cover.

Of course, taking the removable targa top out of the picture does change the character of the original 914 design.

I've resorted to using Perry's 'umbrella covers' for so long, to the point where I now need to replace the bungee cord material on one of them. It's not that it rains a lot here in So Cal, but being near the ocean, living with the marine layer (salty air and fog), I just keep the cover on most of the time.

I seldom drive mine in the rain, however, I can recount a few times when I was on the road and got slammed by some nasty summertime rainstorms ... and the car leaked like a sieve - mainly above the side windows, as my 'summer' top does not sport nice new rubber seals.

My black car (the 'BB') was pretty bastardized when I first acquired it. I've remedied most of the issues and it's fairly nice now (mechanically). However, since it's not stock and wouldn't be worth my while to convert a 75 back to stock, I wouldn't have any bad feelings about converting it to a hardtop with rain gutters

Stock 914-6's have been known to hydrolock. All it takes is the intake not getting put on properly, or the rubber seal losing elasticity. This is one reason why Richard Parr makes the Watershield rain hats for 3bbl Webers.

There was a story in an old Pano about a guy parking at an airport lot for a week and then coming back and the car wouldn't crank, so he got a push down a hill and popped the clutch, which in turn popped his engine! One cylinder got filled with rain water, and when he tried to crank it, it spun over enough to close the intake valve. Water doesn't compress very well. The moral of the story is if you suspect you might have gotten water down the intake first try taking out the spark plugs (water isn't chopsticks) Then buy my Umbrella Cover

If you have a 6 or have removed your rain tray, you are going to get water in the engine compartment. How much or how consequential is anyone's guess.

For anyone that lives in California I don't think you get why I'm trying to solve this

We get about 8 weeks of summer and it's likely to rain four of those

I guess hydrolock could happen with any motor sporting carburetors, but every one I've seen it happen on had the rain tray removed. I retain the OEM rain trays, and have the optional rain trays in 912s too

My Toyota Supra targa never leaked a drop. Not sure what their secret was, it came only 15 years after my '71 914. Maybe just better fit. That car was flexy like a noodle without the top, but pretty rock solid with the top on.

911 targa's leak worse ... and are way more expensive to try to fix.

A friend of mine that shared our 914 obsession spun out on Lakeshore Drive in Baton Rouge in the late 70" and came to rest side-up in the University Lake. It proved not to be waterproof as it took about 8 minutes to sink to the muddy bottom of the lake (in four feet of water......) When dredged out, the value remaining was minimal but it has several crawfish in the interior...........

It seems to me that this location where the roof, windshield and window comes together is the main area of in concern, Is that an accurate assessment?

That's certainly where mine leaks. Have you played with the wing window adjustment to see which position works best? I've thought about it, but never gotten around to it, and not sure which way to go for best results.

It should fit like this.

Click to view attachment

I want to be able to go through a drive thru car wash with NO targa top! Sorta like the Ariel Atom.

My car is literally cut in half right now so it doesn't look like that but once I start putting it back together including new seals, can I expect it to leak a bit and if so is that the offending area, or is your car dry??

Thats the area where mine leaks too.
Its a total bitch to get it adjusted properly.

Zach

Looks like the seal isn't even there in that pic? Guaranteed to leak! lol, I'm guessing you are just showing the location, not how it should fit.

The floor isn't there either right now so I suppose that it wouldn't matter if it leaked

Fixing it as fast as I can

Seriously though, unlike the 911 crowd that critiqued my last project, I figured this group would be all over engineering improvements

My 914 is absolutely leak free.







It is however, hard to drive around with the tarp on :-)