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Krieger
Pics coming if I get this form right.

edit: Cool, I got this poll going! So occasionally on hot days at the track when I have my act together, I have trouble shifting my rebuilt 901. I am adding more power so I decided to add a trans cooler. I decided to put it in the fender well. This scoop is a part from West Marine that is stainless steel. I masked off the leading edge, then glass beaded it. I plan on mounting the oil cooler inside the fender and flush against it.

What looks best? Or where else in that area away from the wheel.
Krieger
Down low.
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Krieger
In the middle
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Krieger
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Krieger
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wndsrfr
Looks like that scoop may actually be pretty effective out in the air flow like that.
Higher up might help keep some of the rubber "marbles" or "worms" from collecting in the cooler vanes.....amazing how much rubber hits the rocker covers and lower portion of the body panels....my car has black marks from it all along the side. Consider fashioning a rat wire screen painted black just inside the opening.....
Do you have a trans temp readout? Be really interesting to see the results if you do a session with the scoop blocked off vs. open.
Jeff Hail
I actually like the retro scoop. Just not sure I like the backwards Auto Union mirror housing hanging off the side of the qtr.

BUT
I'd first see if the cooler has enough sink to make a difference without cutting hole in the qtr panel. Just the addition of a cooler and some surface area might be enough.

Or consider a small pick up scoop at the bottom of the qtr panel without removing sheetmetal.
Chris914n6
Since fixing a hole in sheet metal sucks, I say a hole in the flare and direct the air wherever you need it.

Make the duct out of clay then fiberglass over it.
Steve
I've seen quite a few trans coolers and they are always mounted underneath next to the trans at an angle with a pump. Have you looked in the paddock forum for ideas?
Mark Henry
I'd put it in the rocker then at least it doesn't look like total crap. bye1.gif
Krieger
John, I was planning on putting a screen on it. My rear flare has black marks on it, so I know higher would be better. This would be pretty easy to remove to clean out the shittage that collects. I do not have a temp readout.

Jeff, I have considered the heat sink idea, but I feel I'd end up having to do this thing twice. I have considered the quarter panel scoop idea. I looked at many different pics on our site. Problem is fitting a cooler with a shroud in the fender well with oil fittings.

Chris, I looked at a hole in the flare. There is not a lot of room between the tire and the flare to make that u-turn. I don't like my stuff close to the wheels. The locations I am considering now I'd still put a metal shield near the cooler.
Krieger
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Dec 29 2016, 06:51 PM) *

I'd put it in the rocker then at least it doesn't look like total crap. bye1.gif


You no likey...I am trying to maximize the appearance with what I think I am going to do. It seems like on the track I have more potential issues with everything so close to the tire. I am not as concerned with cutting one more hole in the car. I want it to work with minimal issues and easy to access and clean. I get great airflow there. I drove around with a 2" wide wind gauge I held there while driving. It registered the same speed that I was driving.
Larmo63
A slot in that rear flare looks easier. That way you aren't cutting into the body?

My $.02
mgp4591
And if you put the scoop or duct just in front of the flare you've got a high pressure area that will give you the airflow you need for cooling.
GregAmy
I've got a trans cooler on the 2017 "to do" list for the vintage racer; I was seeing 229* and climbing at the end of 20-minute sessions, and shifting performance/ease was degrading.

Chris Foley and I have tossed around some ideas, he may make up a kit for it. My plan is to do as others do for engine oil coolers, something mounted under the rear trunk with an attached fan (debating thermostatically-controlled or manually switched). I may even implement Chris' engine oil cooler for that purpose (I have a front-mounted engine oil cooler). Why not do the same? Short of some aero testing, you really have no idea what the airflow is like in these areas, and an under-mounted cooler with fan is The Easy Button.

What are you planning to use for a pump?
914forme
I would say larger heat sink, and mounted under the car with a fan to help motivate the air. You could even do a Ducky work. Do not cut the fender for that scoop.

As far as since now you are going to pump the trans, are you also going to re-interduce the oil at key points, or still rely on the gears to wash themselves in your oil bath. If the latter, you will need to run additional gear oil to keep the levels at a good point for proper lubrication.

BTW, I am sure Patrick Motorsports has been down this road, you can liberate some ideas from his site. At the bottom of the page it list the car builds this kit was used in.

Here are a few examples of placed oil squirters to cover each of the gear with fresh cool oil.

Click to view attachment

On a 914 you would want to inject on the right side of the trans for the Ring and Pinion other wise you are spraying oil on the backside of the gear. yes you technically hit the target but have dimensioned returns for your effort.

Click to view attachment

Ultimately it is your car, so I would go with the design and data you have for proper scoop placement. Higher in the air stream you go with a clear undisturbed flow the better you are. Positive pressure is your friend here. A scoop can also cut down on your aerodynamics to reduce your top speed, That might not be an issue for you. Areo is the key to speed, you can make huge HP numbers but if you can't move the air out of your way, all them ponies do you no damn good.
Andyrew
QUOTE(914forme @ Dec 30 2016, 06:21 AM) *

Areo is the key to speed, you can make huge HP numbers but if you can't move the air out of your way, all them ponies do you no damn good.



Ya, but how often are you REALLY over 140-160mph?

IMHO Aero has more effect on grip than it does speed. Take for example a 400hp 914 You would never be able to feel that scoop in the real world.
Krieger
QUOTE(GregAmy @ Dec 30 2016, 04:58 AM) *

I've got a trans cooler on the 2017 "to do" list for the vintage racer; I was seeing 229* and climbing at the end of 20-minute sessions, and shifting performance/ease was degrading.

Chris Foley and I have tossed around some ideas, he may make up a kit for it. My plan is to do as others do for engine oil coolers, something mounted under the rear trunk with an attached fan (debating thermostatically-controlled or manually switched). I may even implement Chris' engine oil cooler for that purpose (I have a front-mounted engine oil cooler). Why not do the same? Short of some aero testing, you really have no idea what the airflow is like in these areas, and an under-mounted cooler with fan is The Easy Button.

What are you planning to use for a pump?


Greg I was able to hold a wind gauge in that location ( I have long arms) while driving a narrow body car. When I was at 70mph the wind speed at that location was 70 mph. My silver car is flared of course and maybe the airflow will be less, but I was impressed that my little 2" round gauge held flush at the body had 100% airflow. I was planning to make the pump thermostatically controlled to turn on at 180*. I bought all my supplies from BAT in Floriday. They are the Mocal guys, so I bought a Mocal diaphragm type pump. They are noisy, but this is mostly a track machine. I do not anticipate hearing it on the street. The advantage of the diaphragm pump is they suck and do not need to be mounted at the level of the trans oil.
Krieger
QUOTE(914forme @ Dec 30 2016, 06:21 AM) *

I would say larger heat sink, and mounted under the car with a fan to help motivate the air. You could even do a Ducky work. Do not cut the fender for that scoop.

As far as since now you are going to pump the trans, are you also going to re-interduce the oil at key points, or still rely on the gears to wash themselves in your oil bath. If the latter, you will need to run additional gear oil to keep the levels at a good point for proper lubrication.

BTW, I am sure Patrick Motorsports has been down this road, you can liberate some ideas from his site. At the bottom of the page it list the car builds this kit was used in.

Here are a few examples of placed oil squirters to cover each of the gear with fresh cool oil.

Click to view attachment

On a 914 you would want to inject on the right side of the trans for the Ring and Pinion other wise you are spraying oil on the backside of the gear. yes you technically hit the target but have dimensioned returns for your effort.

Click to view attachment

Ultimately it is your car, so I would go with the design and data you have for proper scoop placement. Higher in the air stream you go with a clear undisturbed flow the better you are. Positive pressure is your friend here. A scoop can also cut down on your aerodynamics to reduce your top speed, That might not be an issue for you. Areo is the key to speed, you can make huge HP numbers but if you can't move the air out of your way, all them ponies do you no damn good.


I have studied the PMS site and talked to them. They reccomended their 6x6 cooler with a shroud ducted to the side rocker panel with a NACA duct. The only picture they have is of the silver car/ blue flares that effectively has underbody ground effects that the cooler is mounted to. There is a big problem in getting a 3" diameter flexible hose from the rocker to the underside of the trunk. it cannot go above the trailing arm since there is a wheel there. I messed with a 2.5" flexible hose on my 4 cylinder car for a while trying under the traing arm. The exhaust system is right there so the hose will practically be mouted to the trailing arm and you'd need to have quite a bit extra hanging there for when you lift the car and suspension moving. The hose would also be in the way for valve adjustments. The under body airflow behavior is a question mark. I was planning to put the oil back in the trans in two places, aove the ring and pinion and on top of the gears.
Krieger
QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 29 2016, 07:24 PM) *

A slot in that rear flare looks easier. That way you aren't cutting into the body?

My $.02


Thanks Lawrence. I considered that idea too. I'd need to make a near 180* turn with 3" hose in about 6". I don't like how the ducting is just a couple of inches from the tires. This is not terrible if damaged but still leaves the cooler with its shroud close. Downsides are a lot more fabrication, might not fit in the 5" wide fender well, much more susceptible to damage, difficult to service/clean. Still possible. The trade off is looks/time Hole in flare vs scoop.
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