Okay. Input seal replacement has gone horribly wrong.

1. When tapping a hole in the seal to yank it out with a screw, the seal popped into the transmission.

2. I found the source of the leak. The last time a seal had been installed, the rocket scientist put a pretty significant scratch into the mating surface.

So... how can I recover, short of a new transmission? This one shifts SO well.

Roll the tranny onto the starter side, remove the stub axle (17mm bolt head) and then remove the side cover. Use a good pair of side cutters to cut the seal and then pull it out.
Reassemble. The bolt in the diff gets hand tight, no more. Might wanna replace the side cover o-ring and the stub axle seals while you're in there. Insert the new input shaft seal, using a thin smear of JB weld on it. That'll fill the scratch if you've cleaned the surface of the bore in the case well.

QUOTE (Lawrence @ May 2 2005, 03:45 PM)

1. When tapping a hole in the seal to yank it out with a screw, the seal popped into the transmission. 2. I found the source of the leak. The last time a seal had been installed, the rocket scientist put a pretty significant scratch into the mating surface.

in the (likely) event simply fishing for it through the mainshaft opening can't extract it, seems t'me the choices are 1)carefully pull off everything north of the intermediate place, and 2)pull off a side cover. even that might not expose the needed area...

you might luck out with a flexible borescope and a flex-cable mechanical-finger parts grabber - one of those has saved my bacon more than once ...

as for the scratch, i'm sure the purists would be horrified, but i'd think something like a skin coating of JB Weld to fill the scratch might work. or something like Curil-II or Hylomar on the replacement seal...

I talked to Clay on the phone. Looks like it's going to be JB Weld time tonight. Bad timing, as I have a term paper to write.

I'll try the side cover. Gotta replace the output seals (stub axles) anyways.

If that doesn't work, I'll yank the guts.

JB weld?

what will the concourse weenies say?

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ May 2 2005, 05:35 PM)

JB weld? what will the concourse weenies say?

We'll never hear, if we hold them underwater long enough!


M

QUOTE (redshift @ May 2 2005, 03:55 PM)

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ May 2 2005, 05:35 PM) JB weld? what will the concourse weenies say?  :lol2: We'll never hear, if we hold them underwater long enough! M

Alot of times if you are careful, the seals can be reused, but the one in this picture can't be, because it's ripped open on one side.

Yuck.


M

QUOTE (redshift @ May 2 2005, 03:39 PM)

Alot of times if you are careful, the seals can be reused, but the one in this picture can't be, because it's ripped open on one side. Yuck. M

thats disturbing miles....






BTW
miles gives new meaning to 'blowing a seal'

You should see the pictures I didn't use.




M

You got me interested there, for a second... tease.


m

Hi
The advise you got is bang on
Hey Cap...what bolt ??

QUOTE

The bolt in the diff gets hand tight, no more

Can you edumicate me please
Later
Joe

You will get an answer soon, if we keep this thing artificially nailed.


M

Okay. Side cover is off, and seal is out. < insert big sigh of relief here >

So, the next question is... do I pull the rear cover and replace the gaskets there and in the intermediate? The purpose of this whole goatscrew (relax, Miles, it's only an expression) was to stop the leaks.

Am I going to get into more trouble than it's worth doing it?

-Rusty

Okay... the gear cluster is now out. It was much easier to repair the scratch in the seal surface having pulled the entire assembly. I've never been this deep in a gearbox before.

I measured the intermediate plate gaskets with a micrometer, and have the replacements selected. Tomorrow is a new day, and I'll finish putting it together then!

-Rusty

QUOTE (JoeSpark @ May 2 2005, 02:51 PM)

Hi The advise you got is bang on Hey Cap...what bolt ?? QUOTE The bolt in the diff gets hand tight, no more Can you edumicate me please Later Joe

The bolt in the center of the drive flange .................... The Cap'n

Hand tight? There's no torque spec?

I remember using a torque wrench on those bolts when I did a different gearbox a few years ago... just don't remember what number I used.

This transmission is CLEAN compared to how it looked when I pulled it.

Another pic of today's festivities.

(anything to get out of writing this term paper)

Here's the intermediate plate and gear cluster. Took a grand total of 15 minutes to remove... that included removing the output flanges.

-Rusty

very nice. i have a trans to put together (waiting for cash to buy S and HA gears )
ill have to pick your brain on how to put it together

The case, upright. I was about to clean the input shaft seal area.

I think this thing just bleeds gear oil... every time I do something, more runs out.

Just a shot of the inside of the end cover.

QUOTE (redshift @ May 2 2005, 04:39 PM)

Alot of times if you are careful, the seals can be reused, but the one in this picture can't be, because it's ripped open on one side. Yuck. M

i dont get it....

QUOTE (Lawrence @ May 2 2005, 09:14 PM)

The case, upright. I was about to clean the input shaft seal area. I think this thing just bleeds gear oil... every time I do something, more runs out.

whats the sensor for? White 2-prong socket.....

reverse lite switch

nice pics Rusty! hehe, those damn trannys just keep leaking fluid forever.

QUOTE (Bleyseng @ May 2 2005, 10:57 PM)

nice pics Rusty! hehe, those damn trannys just keep leaking fluid forever.

Thanks, Geoff.

I think this means, aside from the engine innards, there's only one final unexplored frontier for me: rear trailing arm & stub axle removal. I'll still ask questions cause I have CRS Disease.

-Rusty

QUOTE (Lawrence @ May 2 2005, 08:38 PM)

Hand tight?  There's no torque spec?

spec book says 3,5-4,0 MKp which is ~23 lbs/ft.
"hand tight" or "just snug"
it's an M10 bolt so it could look like it gets a lot of torque - but it doesn't.

thanks Rich. 23 sounds right, I think.

Well, I'll be back at it in a couple of hours. Next step is to clean all the old paper gaskets off so that I can put stuff back together again. I need to remember to grab my torque wrench out of storage, too.

-Rusty

What? no picture of the scratch?

Be careful going back together with the end plate. Make sure you don't mix up the location of the bearing behind the reverse gear. Also, the notch on the flat thrust washer fits over the bearing retainer plate on the intermediate plate.

Good luck and call if you have any problems.

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ May 3 2005, 11:44 AM)

Make sure you don't mix up the location of the bearing behind the reverse gear. .

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ May 3 2005, 02:44 PM)

What? no picture of the scratch? Be careful going back together with the end plate. Make sure you don't mix up the location of the bearing behind the reverse gear. Also, the notch on the flat thrust washer fits over the bearing retainer plate on the intermediate plate.

I tried. It didn't photograph well. Oh, and I freaked out when I went to clean the surfaces today, and discovered part of a THIRD gasket. I couldn't tell if it was a half of something left behind from yesterday or a new one.

So... into the trash, recover all the pieces... reassemble ALL the original gaskets, to confirm that there was indeed a third gasket.

-Rusty

The intermediate plate gaskets came off easy.

I'm cleaning the intermediate plate to end cover surfaces. For some reason, that gasket is just stuck to every square millimeter of the surface.

Any sure way to clean these surfaces with out f'ing them up? I'd rather not create more leaks than I fix.

-Rusty

QUOTE (Lawrence @ May 3 2005, 05:32 PM)

Any sure way to clean these surfaces with out f'ing them up?

"gasket remover" spray. basically the same stuff as in aircraft paint stripper and carb parts dip: methylene chloride. use gloves and plenty of ventilation...

Sounds potentially nasty for the innards of a gearbox. I guess I do things the hard way.

-Rusty

QUOTE (Lawrence @ May 3 2005, 02:32 PM)

The intermediate plate gaskets came off easy. I'm cleaning the intermediate plate to end cover surfaces. For some reason, that gasket is just stuck to every square millimeter of the surface. Any sure way to clean these surfaces with out f'ing them up? I'd rather not create more leaks than I fix. -Rusty

A NEW razor blade. The Cap'n

I'm sure the Cap'n knows best, but now that you're done.........I had the same problem. Sent the seal in when trying to get it out. I still haven't fixed it. Had a spare tranny so used it. However, I had a pro, former dealer mechanic, tell me "hell, a lot of guys used to just drive 'em in on purpose and put in a new seal. Don't hurt a thing just spinnin' there".

QUOTE (Sammy @ May 3 2005, 04:33 PM)

LOL you haven't popped your 901 cherry until you have removed and re-installed the pin that holds the little brass speedo drive thingy on the end of the shaft Bent many a 20 penny nail on that one. Iffn you don't have to take that off, DON'T DO IT unless you have the fancy Porsche extra deep socket. Major PITA.

Never HAD to remove the pin. I have the special deep well socket. I did it once just to know how to do it. PITA... worth having the socket for it.

The one I don't have is the special long socket for the input shaft nut. That one is a mother to get off!!!!