Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Intro from Montana: '73 2.0L rustoration thread
914World.com > The 914 Forums > 914World Garage
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45
andrewb
QUOTE(bbrock @ Dec 31 2017, 05:50 PM) *

QUOTE(andrewb @ Dec 31 2017, 12:09 AM) *

What are the little yellow tags you've left hanging on the car ?
I just know there'll be a good reason and I want to copy it smile.gif


Those are my to-do reminders; mostly for tasks that were left undone because they would be easier when the car was repositioned on the rotisserie, or have to wait until some other task is completed. Picked a pack of these tags up at Staples and figured bright yellow dangly things would be hard to ignore.

Click to view attachment


Good idea - I'll be doing the same - and apols for calling you Brett earlier. Now corrected.

bbrock
QUOTE(andrewb @ Dec 31 2017, 04:35 PM) *

- and apols for calling you Brett earlier. Now corrected.


Ha, that happens so often, I didn't even notice. beerchug.gif

Kind of random progress

Started out yesterday harvesting bits from the old floor pan and circled back to end today bead blasting them. Combined with the two bungs and 4 carpet buttons I got from Garold, I'm good to go.

Click to view attachment

I decided to harvest the seat hinges too, even though I'll be installing a new set from RD. I'm glad I did though. Otherwise, I probably would have forgotten this little cable clip for the seat belt sensor.

Click to view attachment

After a couple weeks of sub-zero temps, we got a nice inversion yesterday so it was a balmy 21F up here on the mountain, even thought it hovered at, or below zero all day down in Bozeman. Not wanting to waste the nice sunshine, I hauled the car outside for some sun and sand, Montana style. I wasn't sure how well blasting would work in the cold, but it actually worked better than when it was warm.

Click to view attachment

I blasted the tunnel and inside the firewalls with crushed glass until I ran out of media. Normally, I would have just recovered most of the media from the tarp and sieved it for another go, but there was no keeping snow out of it, so it will need to be dried before it can be used again. Got the job mostly done but need to make another round.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Headed to a New Year's Eve party early enough to pick up a couple more bags of media at the lumber yard, only to find they had closed early for the holiday. headbang.gif

So this morning, I dove into a task I have been dreading - fixing the corrosion where the hood release handle mounts thanks to years of mouse and weasel piss.

Click to view attachment

But with the floor out, access would never be better. The corrosion from the fuel tank side was so bad I had to reference the PET just to figure out what kind of fasteners I was dealing with.

Click to view attachment

I cursed when I read they are pan head screws, but the gods were merciful today so after heating them with a torch yesterday and soaking them in penetrating oil overnight, they came loose with vice grips without much fight.

Click to view attachment

Now the challenge of fabricating a compound curved piece for that spot. I sharted by just hand bending the main part of the patch where the handle will mount.

Click to view attachment

I've come close to buying or making a good set of stake dollies but couldn't quite justify the expense for just a couple parts. If I had them, I would have tried to hammer out the shape by forming tucks and shrinking them, but I gave up on that, and just made some relief cuts to form bends. It's starting to get there in this shot.

Click to view attachment

And then, just as things were getting interesting, my welding helmet lost its Mo Jo. headbang.gif Batteries went dead. I put the helmet outside over lunch to see if they would recharge, but no luck. I thought these were supposed to go dark when the batteries died, mine didn't. I didn't have any spares and it wasn't worth a special trip to town. So that was it for welding for the day. Still some work to do on the patch, but not looking too bad.

Click to view attachment

I ground off all the spot weld tits from the floor flange, and then put on my X-country skis and played outside for awhile. After that, I finished the day by bead blasting the parts harvested from the floor yesterday.
bbrock
A whole week for a 6"x9" patch

On Monday, I got my welding helmet squared away and was back to work on the patch for the frunk cable pull mount under the dash. I'm not going to lie, this was a giant B and I had my doubts I could pull it off. It was so hard, I didn't take any progress picks because I was just floundering my way through. I got the patch shaped up pretty well and welded into place on Monday. On Wednesday, outside temps actually climbed above freezing for the first time in over a month, so I wheeled the rig outside for another round of media blasting. I got the tunnel and cross member cleaned up, then blasted both sides of the weasel latrine area I was patching. Of course, a big area beyond what I thought needed patch blew out into Swiss cheese. I spent a bunch of time zapping all the little holes shut with the welder, but when I had finished, it looked like crap so I cut it all out and started on a second patch to extend the first. Simpler curves on the second patch, so not as hard to shape, but it required a lot of tacking and tapping shape the patch as I welded to make it work. I finally got it in place and started the LONG process of grinding and then welding up exposed pinholes. Access to that area is terrible, even with the floor pan fully off. Then there is the cable tube for the trunk release, and fuse box brackets to add extra challenge and interfere with the welding gun and grinding tools. This was just a case of globing on melted steel and then sculpting with a cutoff wheel to pretend the welds weren't shitty. The whole time I kept thinking that Ben would probably flunk me on this assignment. Finally, I got things welded and shaped to something close to what I was after.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Of course, the real test was whether the trunk pull mount would fit. Luckily, it did.

Click to view attachment

I didn't get too carried away smoothing welds that will be buried under seam sealer, and I'm not going to beat myself up too bad over needing a little FG reinforced filler to fill pin holes and a few minor rough spots. But after final grinding with a conditioning disk, it isn't too bad. A thin skim of filler and the repair should dissapear completely.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Boy, am I glad that is done!
euro911
You're doing amazing fixes, dude.

Looking at your open tunnel pix, I think both my accelerator & clutch tubes need some attention near the rear firewall/bulkhead. I think the best approach is to cut out a couple squares from the underside to deal with them. then weld patches & shoot undercoating on them when done confused24.gif
bbrock
Thanks. Now that I've fully dissected this tunnel, I think you are right on your proposed plan. I think you could cut off fairly large sections of tunnel from the underside and weld them back in pretty seamlessly. Luckily, the only tube repair needed on mine was a quick zap with the welder on the accelerator cable tube to fix a small nicked from the cutoff wheel getting the floor off. That tube rides right down on the tunnel floor right where I cut. headbang.gif
euro911
When you get a chance, could you shoot a pic of this area showing the accelerator cable tube? ... I can't see where it ends at the front unsure.gif

Click to view attachment
bbrock
QUOTE(euro911 @ Jan 7 2018, 12:08 PM) *

When you get a chance, could you shoot a pic of this area showing the accelerator cable tube? ... I can't see where it ends at the front unsure.gif



You bet. It is hiding under the clutch cable tube. Notice also that the accelator cable tube runs through its own reinforcement jacket and all the tubes are brazed in place rather than welded. I should have turned flash on for this pic, but hopefully you can see all the important bits okay.

Click to view attachment

Also, there are a couple of those thin metal cable wraps for the fuel lines on the floor of the tunnel, so you will want to pay attention to those when you are cutting for access. beerchug.gif
euro911
Perfect, Brent - thank you ... exactly what I needed to see.

I'm tempted to extend the accelerator cable tube more forward, as I believe the cable has somehow wrapped itself around the hose for the hydraulic clutch set up that's running through the clutch cable's tube and causing the drag.

I'll definitely heed your caution on cutting into the area idea.gif
bbrock
Pedal area

I only worked a few hours on the car today. After the intensity of the trunk cable pull mount, I wanted to do something easy, yet satisfying today. So I decided to tackle the rust hole in the floor under the pedal area that won't be covered by the RD floor pan.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

I wanted to replicate the original circular indentaion, so I made a very simple hammer form by cutting a hole with a hole saw in a 1/4" piece of birch plywood. The disc cutout is the same diameter as the metal discs that were seam sealed into those indents to plug U-shaped drain slits (I assuming for dipping the chassis).

Click to view attachment

Hammer forming was a simple matter of placing a piece of 18 gauge sheet over the hole, placing the disc on top, and hammering the disc into the hole. Took about 3 minutes. I also did some simple bending on the vice to match the beading, and a little hammer to match some curves around the edges, and I had a nice patch.

Click to view attachment

Then it was simply a matter of trimming the opening and welding in place with a few hammer taps here and there to fine tune the shape as I went for a perfect fit. I missed a couple areas while media blasting and intended to hit those with a flapper disc before welding, but I forgot. It caused a little sputter while welding, but not too bad.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Then carefully grinding down the welds and finishing up with a conditioning disc to blend the joint, and it doesn't look half bad except my old, cheap, Campbell-Hausfeld die grinder that has been abused for 30 years died on me, so I won't be able to grind the weld on the inside until I replace it.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

The last of the wire needed to finish my wire harnessed was delivered yesterday, so I might work on that tonight.
bbrock
Just got back from a trip to the doctor:

Click to view attachment

I know what you are thinking... that the dumbass wasn't wearing safety glasses. But I'm very careful to wear all the appropriate eye, hearing, and respiratory equipment. I finished my day of working on my car Saturday without incident. Later, I laid down on my back and felt a shower of crap fall from my eyebrows and into both eyes. I immediately got up and rinsed my eyes with saline but they still burned. I figured I must have scratched both corneas and they would heal. My eyes were pretty goopy on Sunday but I still managed to work some on the car. By yesterday, my right eye was healed but the left was getting worse. This morning, I noticed a black spec on my left eye that wouldn't come off with rinsing. So to the doctor, I went. Hopefully I'll be good as new in a day or so. But all this because I didn't wash my damn face after finishing work on the car. WTF.gif
euro911
Coincidentally, yesterday we had to take our 19 y/o Dachshund to the vet for the same reason, scratched cornea ... although she wasn't working on a car when it happened rolleyes.gif
bretth
I got a tiny piece of rust stuck in my eye just from laying under a car and looking up into the frame one time. Just fell with gravity and they had to use the 'eye drill' to get it out. Hope you heal soon and continue with the great work you are doing.
bbrock
yikes.gif "eye" and "drill" are not two words that should be in the same sentence! Luckily, no such procedure for me. Just numbed it up and used a micro-spatula to scoop it off.

Hope the pup is doing better Mark. My eye sure is.
mbseto
My wife would never let me live something like that down. She always bugs me to groom my eyebrows. I just let them go wild. Didn't realize it was a safety issue...
bbrock
QUOTE(mbseto @ Jan 10 2018, 01:52 PM) *

My wife would never let me live something like that down. She always bugs me to groom my eyebrows. I just let them go wild. Didn't realize it was a safety issue...


Yeah, mine has recently started commenting on my wild eyebrows. Looks like I'm off to the eye specialist this afternoon. Thought I had this behind me, but then it got worse again. I think I've still got something scraping around in there. Hoping they don't have to break out the "eye drill."
porschetub
eye drill !! the thought makes me almost barf.gif .
Bummer that happened after how well those repairs turned out ,feel for you did the same myself years ago....bloody painful,get well soon.
bbrock
I'm happy to report I have no more shit in my eye and NO DRILLS piratenanner.gif Doc says I should be at 90% by Friday. If they'd just send me home with a bottle of that Lidocaine for numbing, I'd be at 100% right now. Still have to laugh at the absurdity of the whole thing.
mb911
I have had this happen many times.. I now make sure I shower right after working on the car and grinding etc or wash my face at the least.

Also just bought some of kevlar reinforced filler yesterday specific for sealing all the weld joints.. I have a friend that does some pretty nice restos and swears by it and he goes right to bare metal then regular filler then epoxy over that.. He has had fantastic results.. I am still debating that..
bbrock
Back at it
My eye healed up enough to get back to work on the car this evening. Not much, but good to be making progress again. I've been debating how to treat the rusted lower edge and weld flanges of the firewall and floor cross brace where seam sealer had trapped moisture. The firewall definitely needs a couple patches, but there was generally mild pitting and several pin holes along most of the length of the firewall and brace. They were borderline, but replacing the entire lower edges seemed like overkill. So, I used a copper backing plate and turned down the MIG to low and started zapping pinholes and filling the deepest pits. It seemed kind of like cutting corners, but ultimately, I think the result is more sound and definitely less time consuming than several feet of butt welds.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

Now I can get back to the firewall patches I started a couple weeks ago.
mb911
Mine was a bit worse so i had to do several feet of butt welds..
76-914
QUOTE(bbrock @ Jan 10 2018, 05:33 PM) *

I'm happy to report I have no more shit in my eye and NO DRILLS piratenanner.gif Doc says I should be at 90% by Friday. If they'd just send me home with a bottle of that Lidocaine for numbing, I'd be at 100% right now. Still have to laugh at the absurdity of the whole thing.

The eye drill is psychedelic. It's just a rubber disc that rotates and snags the metal piece. It's a fantastic light show when it's swirling. 20 different colors blossom in a kaleidoscopic pattern. Unbelievable effect. I don't know why the brain see's this in this manner but it is beautiful. BTDT. beerchug.gif
bbrock
QUOTE(76-914 @ Jan 12 2018, 03:11 PM) *

The eye drill is psychedelic. It's just a rubber disc that rotates and snags the metal piece. It's a fantastic light show when it's swirling. 20 different colors blossom in a kaleidoscopic pattern. Unbelievable effect. I don't know why the brain see's this in this manner but it is beautiful. BTDT. beerchug.gif


Dangit! Now I'm bummed I didn't get the drill!

But how about an update? Friday, I finally got around to repairing the turn signal lens that broke when the shelf of parts bins collapsed months ago.

IPB Image

I wound up using aircraft paint stripper to solvent bond the pieces together. It is basically gelled methyl chloride which is the stuff used to solvent weld acrylic. It makes a good, strong bond.

IPB Image

IPB Image

You'd never know it was ever busted.

Come On Baby Light My Firewall

Lot's of little repairs needed before the floor can go in. Saturday started off a bit rocky as I fired up the cutting wheel and almost immediately, some piece of crap bounced at a weird angle and shot behind the side shield of my very expensive prescription safety glasses, and into the same damn eye!!! fyou1.gif Luckily, a quick rinse with saline got it out without doing more damage to my already traumatized cornea.

First on the agenda was the firewall repairs I started a couple weeks ago. Both inside lower corners were rusted.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

To fit patches, I needed to fit the floor panel in place. So, I trimmed the flanges down to correct size, and clamped and zip screwed the rear panel in. It looks so nice, it is tempting to start welding it in. But there is a lot of work that needs to be done before I'm ready for that.

Click to view attachment

Here are the patches.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

And the repairs

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Working around those brazed in e-brake cable tubes was loads of fun. There are a few boogers in the welds because I was getting some sort of contamination causing the pool to bubble. The metal is clean on both sides so I don't know what caused it. But it got worse the closer I got to that braze joint so I wonder if it was brass spatter? confused24.gif Anyway, I probably could have fixed it for a completely invisible joint, but decided to let sleeping dogs lie. That booger down by the tube looks worse in this pic, but I may go in with the Dremel to clean it out. I might also touch up the braze when I braze in the air vent tubes in the door jambs.

Here's the backside of that patch. I ground it down a little after this pic was taken, but didn't get too carried away. It will be hidden and I didn't want to risk nicking those tubes.

Click to view attachment

As a side note, here's a comparison of Eastwood's rattle can 2K epoxy primer vs. PPG DPFL50. Eastwood is the first pic. Notice how the paint scraped off when I fished that heater tube through the long and firewall. The PPG painted tube is unscathed (well, not quite. There is a scrape where I nicked it with a cutting wheel. Can't blame the paint for that). The Eastwood paint also has a chalkier feel to it whereas the PPG is like armor. I'm not impressed with the Eastwood product.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Next up were some dinky little patches on the corners of the lower outer firewall. I'll only show the larger one. This one was tricker than I expected because the firewall curves in two directions here. I couple taps with the shrinker and stretcher made it work. The other side was shorter so I was able to just do a straight patch. I only ground these enough to remove any MIG whiskers since they will be buried under seam sealer and they aren't very accessuible for grinding.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Next, I reworked some of the weld on the inner long and ran over the whole thing with the shrinking disc since access would never be better. I'm pretty ashamed of those welds. Structurally, they are strong, but no pretty. Luckily, my skills have improved since then. Now I'm mediocre. The instruction booklet that comes with the shrinking disc says it is NOT magic. But it's the closest thing to real magic I've ever witnessed. It's really amazing how a warbly surfaces tightens up and straightens out after using this thing... like magic.

Click to view attachment

A couple of small repairs to flanges were needed. Those were quick and easy. One on the inner firewall.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

And one on the cross member. I guess I didn't take pics of that one.

Finally, a small section at the front of the tunnel next to the pedals had rusted out at the bottom. Again, I forgot to take a pic of the damage. But here's the repair.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Still a few things to do before the floor goes in, but getting close. Getting close to an exciting milestone is a danger point. I have to keep myself in check to not get over eager and skip a step. Take deep breaths, slow down, and think it through.
cary
Looks like a productive weekend.
Keep up the good work.
KELTY360
QUOTE(76-914 @ Jan 12 2018, 02:11 PM) *

The eye drill is psychedelic. It's just a rubber disc that rotates and snags the metal piece. It's a fantastic light show when it's swirling. 20 different colors blossom in a kaleidoscopic pattern. Unbelievable effect. I don't know why the brain see's this in this manner but it is beautiful. BTDT. beerchug.gif


Ssssssh.....the feds will hear about it and make it illegal. smoke.gif
Dave_Darling
Since you have the tunnel apart and access from the inside, it might be a really good time to reinforce the clutch tube mounting points. Having the tube break loose is a distressingly common thing in 914s...

--DD
bbrock
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jan 15 2018, 11:03 AM) *

Since you have the tunnel apart and access from the inside, it might be a really good time to reinforce the clutch tube mounting points. Having the tube break loose is a distressingly common thing in 914s...

--DD


Glad you mentioned that. I was contemplating that over the weekend. All the braze joints on all the tubes look in great shape with no stress fractures, but still, I was thinking how much it would suck to have one of them break after getting this thing all together. I'll do some searching on how others have done this, but any tips on the best way to reinforce would be appreciated. Of course, I'll also be treating the tunnel with Jasco and spraying with epoxy primer before buttoning things up too.

Thanks for reminding me not to neglect this task.
bbrock
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jan 15 2018, 11:03 AM) *

Since you have the tunnel apart and access from the inside, it might be a really good time to reinforce the clutch tube mounting points. Having the tube break loose is a distressingly common thing in 914s...

--DD


It's a Series of Tubes
Dave probably saved my a$$. At lunch yesterday, I took another look at my clutch tube and found one of the braze joints at the front end cracked and the tube wiggling around a little. You can see it in the first pic below. I'm sure it wasn't cracked Sunday morning when I inspected all the tubes. I'm guessing all the vibration cutting out the patch on the front of the tunnel created the crack. That's probably how the failure starts.

I read up on clutch tube repairs, and was particularly looking for info on failure modes to understand how to prevent. Lot's of reading available, but I found this thread particularly helpful. Mark S., if you haven't seen it, you should check it out before beginning your repair. It might save you cutting into the floor of your tunnel. It looks like the main failures are caused by the bracket breaking loose at the front, or rusting out where it passes through the firewall at the rear. The problem at the front looks to be more a problem with the brazing used to attach the bracket than the bracket itself. So, my solution up threre was just to turn the welder down low and sneak a bunch of tack welds in around the brazing. I slipped a drill bit the same size at the tube I.D. to make sure the tube stayed round and the correct dimension.

Click to view attachment

I think this should be sufficient to keep the tube attached to the bracket and bracket attached to the wall with no flexing to lead to metal fatigue.

On the rear, I made a little bracket to add additional attachment support beyond just the firewall.

Click to view attachment

The bracket is tack welded to the tube, the firewall, and the two bottom tabs will be plug welded to the floor when it is installed.

Click to view attachment

Hopefully this will prevent a future crisis, but opinions are welcome. I'm also going to treat the insides of the tubes with Jasco and after the chassis is painted, I'll pull a swab soaked with Teflon dry lube through them.
euro911
The front of the clutch cable tube on my '75 had been 'repaired' by a PO with a brace that was bolted in to secure it in place. The rear of the tube has definitely broken loose from the firewall, so that's the area I'll focus on first.

I also want to install a J-West RennShift lever, so I'll probably remove the entire shift rod assembly, allowing me to inspect the tunnel better with an inspection camera - it's pretty cluttered in there right now and hard to see very well. Pretty sure I'll have to cut out a section of the floor of the tunnel to effect tube repair at the firewall.
bbrock
QUOTE(euro911 @ Jan 16 2018, 12:58 PM) *

The front of the clutch cable tube on my '75 had been 'repaired' by a PO with a brace that was bolted in to secure it in place. The rear of the tube has definitely broken loose from the firewall, so that's the area I'll focus on first.

I also want to install a J-West RennShift lever, so I'll probably remove the entire shift rod assembly, allowing me to inspect the tunnel better with an inspection camera - it's pretty cluttered in there right now and hard to see very well. Pretty sure I'll have to cut out a section of the floor of the tunnel to effect tube repair at the firewall.


Well, it was worth a shot. I agree, I didn't see anything for the firewall end that would provide a shortcut. But when I read the technique for drilling small holes in the side of the tunnel to plug weld the front bracket back to the wall, it gave me hope for you project.
euro911
Oh, I definitely appreciate all the tips and recommendations, Brent. Since I'll be cutting into the tunnel anyway, I may go ahead and do a better fix on the front tube support 'while I'm in there'.

I've been fortunate in that there wasn't much rust on the car, and most has been dealt with - nowhere near what you've had to work on ... it's just those last little nagging bits left to address sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif

Your progress thread has been very educational and an inspiration to many of us beerchug.gif
bbrock
Just a couple little tasks to update. Yesterday I started working on a patch for the driver's front inner wheel well where it meets the long. I left those open on both sides, thinking I'd use them for access inside the longs to spray cavity wax. But they aren't really needed and I need to patch them before the floor can go in.

Click to view attachment

Nothing very eventful other than I ran out of time before finishing grinding, but finished that up tonight.

Click to view attachment

Still a couple shrink dinks in there which is frustrating, but close to invisible.

While I was over there, I glued this piece back on with a little BB Weld, mostly just to have one less loose piece rattling around in the shop. I still need to fab a new rocker bracket there that will include a patch for a small rust spot further up in the wheel well, but that can wait.

Click to view attachment

I wore out my last grinding disc so will have to finish grinding later, and frankly, I was getting pretty sick of grinding so needed to do something else.

So, I moved over to the other inner wheel well to start on that patch. It is the last patch needed before the floor goes in. You probably don't remember this one, but I sure do. This is the patch I spent a lot of time on and really struggled - and ultimately, through the patch away. I punted by patching only the part I needed to do the longitude repair; hoping my skills would improve by the time I circled back around to it. I doubt they have. I know my toolkit hasn't improved.

Click to view attachment

I got this far with the patch:

Click to view attachment

Then I realized I wasn't just tired of grinding, I was just tired. I need to be fresh to tackle this next patch. So I shoved all my crap up under the car so my wife could get her car in the garage when she got home, and called it a night.

Click to view attachment
bbrock
QUOTE(euro911 @ Jan 16 2018, 04:21 PM) *

Oh, I definitely appreciate all the tips and recommendations, Brent. Since I'll be cutting into the tunnel anyway, I may go ahead and do a better fix on the front tube support 'while I'm in there'.

I've been fortunate in that there wasn't much rust on the car, and most has been dealt with - nowhere near what you've had to work on ... it's just those last little nagging bits left to address sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif

Your progress thread has been very educational and an inspiration to many of us beerchug.gif


Thanks for the kind words Mark. I think if it is inspirational, it should only be for showing how far stubbornness can compensate for lack of tools and skill. But it's getting there.
marksteinhilber
Yep, your firewall repairs are very similar to what I did over the last couple years. It's coming along great& #33;Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachmentid
=635479]Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment[attachme
ntid=635483]
bbrock
QUOTE(marksteinhilber @ Jan 17 2018, 02:06 PM) *

Yep, your firewall repairs are very similar to what I did over the last couple years. It's coming along great!


Sweet! Nice to see I'm in good company!
bbrock
Banishing Rust
I'm getting closer to spraying primer before the floor goes in. Yesterday before work, I sprayed all the tunnel internals and weld flanges with Jasco and let it sit for the day. For inside the tubes, I ran a piece of bailing wire through and then hooked on a small patch of rag soaked with Jasco, then pulled the rag through the tube. I repeated that several times for each tube. The rag came out pretty rusty looking the first time through the clutch tube. After work, I sprayed everything lightly again to reactive the acid, then I rinsed with water to neutralize. I repeated the tube treatment, but with water.

Click to view attachment

Tonight, I scrubbed all the loose phosphate off with a red Scotch Brite pad. This is the before pic.

Click to view attachment

And the Words of the Prophet are Written on the Forum Walls
QUOTE(bbrock @ Jan 16 2018, 08:06 PM) *

This is the patch I spent a lot of time on and really struggled - and ultimately, through the patch away. I punted by patching only the part I needed to do the longitude repair; hoping my skills would improve by the time I circled back around to it. I doubt they have. I know my toolkit hasn't improved.


My doubts about being able to pull off that inner wheel patch proved true. After struggling again to make the patch in one piece, I gave up and cheated by cutting off the weld flange around the curve. That made it a lot easier to make the curve, but fitting the patch was a giant PITA because there are a lot of very subtle curves that could only be fitted by tacking in a little at a time. By the time I got to the far end, the curves had widened the gap (the top in pic below). Not so far I couldn't close it with the welder, but not ideal. When I got almost finished with the welding, I peaked at the patch from inside the cabin and found the top edge (on the right in the picture below) a full thickness off. This confused me for awhile because the surfaces were perfectly flush on the other side. Then I realized the cut line for this patch went right through the weld of the old patch that had been removed. I didn't intend to do that, it was just another screw up. The upshot being that the metal was thicker there and caused the misalignment on one side.

Click to view attachment

So tonight I got to grind that all back down, cut that weld open, and try again. Luckily, it worked this time.

Click to view attachment

I was only able to rough grind the outside with a cutting wheel because I'm still out of grinding discs. I got the inside done by cycling back through the best of the used ones.

I still had that gap to fill where I cut off the flange, so I made a dinky little flange patch.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

I didn't like how shrinking the large patch flattened out the bottom radius, so I piled on some extra material with the welder so I could sculpt the correct radius back in. Again, compensating for lack of skill here.

Click to view attachment

Again, rough grind only with a cutoff wheel, but you get the idea.

Click to view attachment

Learning the Hard Way

Now I'm in the home stretch to installing the floor. Next up was dry fitting the whole floor to make the final trim at the front edge. Before this, I had only fit the rear section because I was focused on getting the profile right for the firewall flanges. Bad idea! headbang.gif When fitting these floors, you really should start at the front and work backward. When I fit the rear section, I lined up the edges of the rear flange and firewall. This positioned the panel too far forward, which I didn't know until I fit the front section and saw the overlap was too large. I'm probably the only one who would have noticed, but it threw the bead spacing off where the panels met. It wasn't a big deal to adjust, but it left me with a half dozen screw holes to zap shut, and I had to remark all the flange lines for masking before spraying primer. It is going to look nice.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
bbrock
Floored!
Well, this is a big one. I don't think there will be another milestone like this until the chassis is all in primer.

Friday, I started prepping the floor panels for installion, starting with welding on the two little cable hold downs for the fuel lines, then mixing up a small amount of epoxy primer to brush onto the inside channels of floor and seat reinforcements and tacking them in place.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

All of Saturday was spent continuing panel prep which included: welding on seat reinforcements, cutting spot weld access holes where the bung covers will go, final fitting and trimming, punching and drilling about a billion holes for plug welds, and finishing with a good coat of epoxy primer on all the interior tunnel and member areas. This took a long time because I decided to drill the floor pans rather than punch holes in the flanges. I just thought being able to do all the welding from the under side would be better light and access, would result in better welds, easier to grind, and would leave things clean and "untouched" looking inside the cabin.

I lost track of how many times I fit and removed the pans from the chassis to get everything aligned just right and the flanges marked in the correct place. One important tip if you do this - MAKE SURE YOU DRILL ON THE CORRECT SIDE OF YOUR LINES headbang.gif It's easy to shut off your brain doing such a monotonous task and let muscle memory take over. Here is what happens.

Click to view attachment

Getting the flanges around the wheel wells adjusted took some time. I had a minor panic attack when I fit the panel and couldn't get it to fit flush against the bottom of my fabricated longitude bottoms.

Click to view attachment

Since this was a fabbed part, my mind immediately raced to the conclusion that I made some fundamentally humongous F-up in fabrication. But it turned out to just be a little metal spur that got left behind and was pushing the floor pan up about 1/2 inch. It just took a few taps with a body hammer to adjust things to perfect alignment. Had to do the same on the other side, but less severe. I don't know if you can even make it out in this pic, but here is the little bugger.

Click to view attachment

Saturday ended with spraying PPG DPLF epoxy primer and Sunday began by finishing up spraying Upol copper weld-thru primer on all plug weld areas. The panels and chassis were finally ready. monkeydance.gif

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Then it was about three hours refitting panels, screwing and clamping them in place, and adjusting gaps to get everything just right. Notice that those spot weld access holes came in handy for clamping. They also let me reach in to install the little metal bars on the backs of the butt weld clamps. Not without pain and a little blood, but it worked.

Click to view attachment

After a couple hours of welding, it looked like this at the end of the day.

Click to view attachment

This morning, I couldn't leave it like that, so took the morning off to (almost) finish welding. I still need to plug weld the rear firewall, then grind the new panel flange flush with the old, then bead weld the edge the way the factory did - and, of course, I have a bit of grinding to do. I also still need to install the pedal reinforcement, seat mounts, and e-brake cable cover. But it is looking pretty nice. monkeydance.gif monkeydance.gif

Click to view attachment

I think my effort drilling the pan instead of punching flanges paid off. There is still some housekeeping to do in there: welding a few holes where the rotabroach blew through, a few short bead welds on the tunnel and firewall, and some very minor grinding. Overall, I think it looks pretty clean and I won't have much grinding to do beyond the butt welds. Mostly just touching up where I filled screw holes and the few plug welds yet to be done from the inside.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
uncle smokey
That looks great. You are inspiring me to get working on mine again.
bbrock
Jack Points
Finished welding the rear edge of the floor this evening, and added these decorative corner pieces. Yellow tag is a reminder to run a bead weld on the inner edge when I have the car flipped over. Not a fan of welding overhead.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

And here's one for andrewb biggrin.gif

Click to view attachment
bbrock
Back Into Hell

I had high hopes of finishing up welding in bits on the floor pan and reinstalling all the parts in the hell hole over the weekend. Things took a lot longer than expected, so I didn't get that far. But still made some good progress.

First up was welding on the pedal support. That was pretty straightforward. The most time consuming part was mixing and applying epoxy primer to the internals of the pedal support, seat hinge brackets, and e-cable guide.

Click to view attachment

It's been a LONG time since this area of the floor wasn't Fred Flintstone.

Click to view attachment

Next up was welding in the seat hinge brackets. That turned out to be a bigger PITA than expected, and chewed up a lot of time. It didn't go well either. Look close and you might be able to see the inner bracket on the passenger side got cocked when I screwed it in.

Click to view attachment

I'm blaming my cramped f'ing garage because to get the car level, I had to work with my ass smashed against a workbench against the wall. There just isn't room in there. I should have climbed inside the tub to get a better viewing angle as I welded it in. Anyway, the seat base bolts in but doesn't allow for any adjustment on the hinge bolts. So I'm going to have to tear that one out and try again. I hope I can salvage the bracket and hinge because those things are expensive. $50 to replace the bracket and hinge.

The final floor task was zapping in the e-brake cable guide. I did have to trim it down a little to be the exact size as the original, but installation was uneventful.

Next I moved to perhaps the most stressful item on the whole project - welding in the suspension console. With the new floor pan, I now had the landmark needed to measure for placement of the outer console. Factory spec is to insert a long bolt in the rear outer console hole that protrudes 182mm from the boss.

Click to view attachment

Then measure from the center of the bolt to the center of the front edge of the rear most form bead on the floor. The RD form bead edges aren't crisp like on the original floor, and I had replaced the floor, so I didn't go exactly by the factory spec. Instead, X marked the spot at the center of the bead.

Click to view attachment

Then I measured from the drivers side console to get my reference measurement and positioned the passenger console to match that distance. Factory spec is 846mm and my reference measurement came in at 848mm. That seems astonishingly good considering the whole floor was replaced and the bead reference location is fuzzy at best.

Click to view attachment

As extra precaution, I also measured from the outer edge of the console bolt boss to the edge of the rear sway bar mount bolt hole and made sure the measurements were the same for both consoles.

Click to view attachment

Then I just tacked the console in. I didn't take any progress pics because I was too stressed trying to get it right.

Next was the outer console. I used Jeff Hail's measurements to make sure the distance between consoles was right. Jeff said to triangulate from the pivot pin holes to the center hole on the firewall. I couldn't figure out what center hole he was referencing, so I measured from the driver's side to the center of the rear edge of the floor pan and matched that on the other side. After that was tacked in, I mounted the crusty trailing arm to make sure everything fit and I had adjustment for alignment. It looked good, but I won't know how badly I screwed this up until alignment time I guess.

Click to view attachment

Last was to weld on the MiddleMotors/914Rubber console gussets.

IPB Image

It took a bit to figure out since there are three pieces in the gusset kit, but only two gussets. But I figured out Cary designed one of the gussets as two pieces to ease installation. I had to grind away a little where the gusset crosses the long flange to keep it from crowding the outer console mount boss. But after welding and grinding, it looks pretty close to what the factory did.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

I just finished this tonight. When I installed these, I thought the holes were weep holes. But now I'm thinking they were intended to plug weld to position the pieces before hammering and bending. Maybe Cary will chime in, but I think I need to weld those in and drill a weep hole in the location the factory piece had.

Finally, the other side. This was a real head scratcher. After fiddling with it and comparing to the other side, I'm fairly certain the slots for the long flange are cut wrong on this piece. I'm pretty sure this is the correct orientation of this piece.

Click to view attachment

It won't be a big deal to close those slots and cut new ones, but I want to get confirmation from the designer before moving forward. So that's where I left it tonight.

Here's a golden eagle that was hanging out on a deer carcass just a couple hundred yards from our driveway last Friday.

Click to view attachment
andrewb
QUOTE(bbrock @ Jan 23 2018, 07:14 AM) *

And here's one for andrewb biggrin.gif

Click to view attachment


Cheers Brent. Funny looking critter (the badger - not you) biggrin.gif
Our European ones are quite different.
bbrock
Scheisse!

I spent a little time each evening this week struggling with the second gusset on the suspension console. Cary lent some much needed help figuring this out on another thread. The key was this pattern diagram that he posted.

IPB Image

I scaled that image up to as close to actual size as I could get, and printed it out to make a folding template.

IPB Image

The pattern was for the driver's side, but it was simply a matter of reversing the bends to fit the passenger side.

IPB Image

Despite being 12 gauge steel, it didn't take long to bend the piece into close to shape using only a couple of BFHs, a vice, and an anvil. Just a little trimming and taps with a hammer, and this would work perfectly well.

IPB Image

Kudos to Super-In-Law and Cary for designing this piece so it could be formed using minimal tools. That said, I have a knack for creating extra work for myself. The piece would have worked perfectly fine as a gusset for the console, but it didn't match the contour of the other side. Who would notice? Nobody! Not a damn soul.. except me. So I took another stab at it. First I made a new template using the driver's side as a pattern. Then I hammered most of the piece back flat and traced the new template onto the old part to trim it to the new profile.

Click to view attachment

The new bend lines were tighter and more complex, so it was a bitch getting that thick steel to submit. I wound up making one relief cut to get the job done. By the time the piece had been shaped, then flattened, reshaped, cut, and shaped some more, it looked like it had been mauled by a grizzly.

Click to view attachment

Finally, it was ready to go on. I tacked it into place and then tapped in the final shape and.... Oh hey, speaking of bears, how about a cute little black bear cub in Jellystone last spring?

Click to view attachment

Or maybe the whole family?

Click to view attachment

Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was about to show this. shades.gif

Click to view attachment

Funny how excited we can get over little pieces that nobody will ever notice.
ndfrigi
this is what I did on a 71 I own before.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
tygaboy
QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 2 2018, 10:15 PM) *

Funny how excited we can get over little pieces that nobody will ever notice.


You and I, we are of a kind.
burton73
QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 3 2018, 06:39 AM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 2 2018, 10:15 PM) *

Funny how excited we can get over little pieces that nobody will ever notice.


You and I, we are of a kind.


Most of us here get excited in these very small details in both of your cars work. It truly is an art form to me. Like a parent, we know ever little detail of our kids.


Bob B
pray.gif
mb911
QUOTE(ndfrigi @ Feb 3 2018, 01:13 AM) *



I have never looked much into these.. Is it to just reinforce that area or did I miss the rust repair area?
bbrock
QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 3 2018, 11:48 AM) *

I have never looked much into these.. Is it to just reinforce that area or did I miss the rust repair area?


It's what the factory did. I'm assumig to tie the two consoles together for reinforcement. I could see where repeated hard cornering might try to tear the consoles off the long if they weren't tied together. Anyone know for sure?
cary
A little late to the party but here's a couple shots of Super In Law's built up pieces.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

mb911
QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 3 2018, 01:17 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 3 2018, 11:48 AM) *

I have never looked much into these.. Is it to just reinforce that area or did I miss the rust repair area?


It's what the factory did. I'm assumig to tie the two consoles together for reinforcement. I could see where repeated hard cornering might try to tear the consoles off the long if they weren't tied together. Anyone know for sure?



Yes the factory did it and all 914s have it my question was were yours rusted away? Or were you doubling the reinforcement?


Nevermind I guess I nees to read that you installed a suspension console.. Carry on and great job
bbrock
QUOTE(cary @ Feb 4 2018, 06:28 AM) *

A little late to the party but here's a couple shots of Super In Law's built up pieces.


Thanks for posting this. I was kicking myself for not having a comparison pic between Super In Law's design and what I ended up making. This shows how the piece flares to wider as it crosses the flange between the two consoles. The piece on the other side of my car i narrow and runs more or less straight over the flange. The other difference is that Super In Laws design took 15 minutes, tops, to form into shape. My piece took 3 hours of wearing out my arm. In the end, I'll bet both pieces work equally well as reinforcement. The only difference being cosmetic. If I were to do it over, I might follow Jack's lead on the other side and split that piece into 2 or 3 parts and weld them together. Still a lot more work though.
bbrock
QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 4 2018, 07:07 AM) *

Yes the factory did it and all 914s have it my question was were yours rusted away? Or were you doubling the reinforcement?


Nevermind I guess I nees to read that you installed a suspension console.. Carry on and great job


Ah, yes. I was pretty sure I had misunderstood your question. Yeah, as Hell Holes go, my was up there with some of the most hellish we've seen.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.