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Are these metal flares that are riveted on?

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Conversion?... Confused.

It has a 3.2! So it is a "conversion"

He lists the Six VIN- so it is a real Six. Upgraded to 3.2. At that price, it will not last long at all.

Yeah, I am not a fan of the riveted on flares, the inside rear trunk sway bar, but those are relatively easy fixes considering all you are getting with that car, assuming it is all it is represented to be. GLWTS.

I recommend consulting an expert before assuming that a VIN makes something "real".

C'mon Dug. FYI Craig is one of the foremost "experts" and knows the difference between a real six and a fake one and his integrity is unquestionable.

And let's not forget the last words in my post, "...assuming it is all it is represented to be".

No

I agree with Dug, this looks like a 1973-74 914/4 body with some 914/6 parts. I will be happy to comment on specific photos if you would like.

If this is a real /6 then how come it has a later style jack holder in the rear trunk? what's the vin on the right front fender say?

edit

Vin tag looks like it is the removable/transferable type! Lol!

Chassis number in trunk?

Is it possible to take a pic of the underside of the dash while it is still installed to see what is there?

Obvious conversion. Nice car, but conversion.

I've never seen metal flares tacked on.

It isn't April Fool's Day yet.

Unfortunately, no.

The side vents on the dash are a give away that it is probably not a 914/6 part

No

The vin # is listed in the 914-6 database here under current owner and member: drgchapman

Glenn, this is the guy who was selling the 914-6 tool kit for $450.

Ok....sorry about the rash statement made about someone I thought was making a rash statement. Did not look that closely at the pictures and missed the rash on the car.

Standing by my statement about Craig....expert with integrity intact.

If drgchapman is the current owner, I can say that he's a stand up guy AFIK. He did a favor for me about 10 years ago, which was much appreciated at the time. Not many people would volunteer to help a world member out using their time and effort but drgchapman did so for me.

As far as the car, 15 years ago a 914/6 was worth 9-10K and many were rebuilt or redone in a variety of ways. Dug would know from experience. I would agree and recommend a full inspection. I would be all over this car if I didn't have the same kind of thing in my garage already.

+1 on Craig as well.

Check the jack location not a six

But SUPER COOL HOT ROD LOVE IT and GLWTS

Why transfer the 914-6 vin number then, if that is all that is from the original 6? Not cool in my opinion.

$$ and I agree..nothing six on that car....but it still cool

Ouch. Seller really needs to explain that upfront. A less friendly group of people would call that fraud.

I'll start the bidding at $18,000. It does have a 3.2L in it and looks fairly clean despite the dirty history now attached to the car.

Looking through drgchapman posting history, he started selling lots of original /6 parts starting around July 2012.

I think it's pretty clear how and when that /4 tub got its /6 VIN ...

So now that we all know it's a conversion does the price drop.....

The guy who did the conversion , built the way he wanted and had to sell it..no mystery, I brought the 3.2 up from CA for Gary,,, there is a build post on some 914 forum somewhere.... Its a conversion that happens to have a 914 serial number.. leave it at that.. good racecar/hotrod

I'm not sure why you think fraud should be left alone and not talked about?

it can be, but its clearly not a OG six..find the original build on the car..
its been misrepresented.. not by the owner. is what I am saying,
doesn't make it right....what guys do who buy Chinese Camaro/57 Chevy/Charger body's and their VINs,
buyer beware

at least its German metal

There is only one reason i can think of why someone would put a /6 VIN on a /4 car.
Someone made the conscious decision to swap the VIN on this car and there is no doubt about the motive.

If you read the first post in this thread, it's also clear that the current owner "forgot" to inform Craig about that little detail when he asked him to sell the car for him.

Is a vin altered car legal to sell?

no

I don't believe so.

If it is registered with the swapped in 914-6 vin # then it is fraud right?

I don't normally like to get into the battles on opinions, but clearly the owner needs to revise pricing on this to reflect what it is .........I know Craig well enough to know he was not part of any deception, but he hardly needs me to stand up for him.....he does what we all do occasionally miss something because we are too busy.

I feel the current pricing is not rational and would also lead one to the incorrect conclusion this is real....

Just another opinion but this one could be legally tricky. I feel there is probably a way to handle it to make it "clean" but altered VINs are clearly not legal.
Oh nice car

well said

The owner clearly wanted to dump this ride on an unsuspecting buyer. With the vin switch, the car is not legal. Only a matter of time before a well trained Highway Patrol officer digs deeper than a registration check, impounds it, and has it crushed. He who is holding the hot potato when time is called, will be the loser. Several threads on early 911's with the same results.
Now as far as a race car. Cut the suspect VIN out, stamp a chassis number for a log book, and your good to go. Assuming the 914-6, 914-4, and engine numbers are all clean.
And yes, knowledge of the VIN switch and sale of the car, would constitute fraud.

IBTL

I got banned from the 914 Forum on Facebook for stating this, so I am prepared to be flamed.

This car is not an example of "VIN Swapping" Yes VIN swapping is illegal. In vintage cars, this is considered by builders to be a "re-bodied car"

the majority of cars that win at Pebble beach are re-bodied cars. in vintage restoration shops, if you OWN both cars, and you want the tags from the rusty shitty car moved to the restored chassis, it is considered ethical and legal. DMV does not care as long as there are not two cars with the same VIN, and neither was stolen. the rusty tub should now have the other VIN and be crushed.
Randy Ema, who builds Pebble beach winning Dusenbergs for Jay Leno, says often: bring me the VIN, registration and the pictures, and I will build you an original Dusenberg.

Had this car been properly documented as a rebodied car, and had the builder used the correct year tub as a donor, and been alert to the differences in early versus later cars, this probably wouldnt have been such an isssue.

I was just at a car show on Friday, where an original Maserati Mille Miglia was on display, valued at $1.4 million. the entire body and engine are non-original.

Epic post # to temp being banned and flamed

Apologies for the interruption...carry on!

That vin got put into the wrong body since that body wasn't just not a six, it couldn't pass for a six.

It fascinates me to see cars that are recreated by hand from a vin # and somehow that is ok but a guy can't take a rusted hulk not worthy of repair, purchase shell, re-body the car and have it somehow called less than legal.

It also interests me to see cars that have rusted well beyond the point of safe repairs using large sections from other cars and that is somehow accepted as an original car. Where is the line when repairing a rusted hulk using a donor car as a platform for repairing a more valuable car? Not saying I agree or disagree. Just always wondered.

In the collision business clipping was always considered not legal and not safe. ( half of one car and half of another) I never did that but know of a shop that did it all the time.

Also in the collision business the vin. number is often supplied on the bill of sale from the salvage yard so there is no doubt the parts are not from a stolen car. Does that happen when a rusted hulk is restored using a donor car?

The car in question here clearly was not done to a standard that would be acceptable to the restoration crowd. But what if it was? What if it was a 10 point restoration using a body in white donor like the Camaros and Mustangs and MGB's? Interesting these are accepted and legal.

Money and a name change. It's not vin swapping, it's a rebody

My wife didn't have a boob job, she had body augmention.

If only Boyd Coddington was still alive. He could shed some light on how the government feels about VIN Switched vehicles. Maybe someone knows one of his customers who got shafted.