I'm considering going to look at a '73 2.0L. The only thing holding me back is the FI has been converted to Webber 40's? What seems to work better/have more potential on 914's - the FI or Carbs?

Any advice from those that have been there would be appriciated.

This is a friday joke right?


no seriously.. there are 100's of VERY STRONG opinions on both sides of the fence.....

The summary is:
What ever you like and what ever you are comfortable
with!

either system you will need to learn something about and manage.
either system can be a night mare or trouble free, once the bugs are worked out.
either system can cost money to repair/replace.

the pendulum in the last 5 years has swung towards originality and F.I.

for a stock engine I think everyone will agree that the stock FI is best(maybe after market FI with a better spark control)

the FI is good for a stock engine... but carbs work fine too... IMHO...the fact it has webers should ot hold you back... if nothing else you can get the stock FI from someone for less than you could sell good 40s for... and make some dough...

define "potential"???

stock FI is limited to allowable engine mods (aggressive cams and such)

Carbs work with just about any combo as long as you can tune them

aftermarket FI rules over both if serious modifications are to be done to the motor......

welcome to the board... to a search and you'll see that this question is kind of a contentious debate, and also a running joke...

but on a stock motor, FI all the way.

QUOTE (Mueller @ May 6 2005, 01:29 PM)

define "potential"??? stock FI is limited to allowable engine mods (aggressive cams and such) Carbs work with just about any combo as long as you can tune them aftermarket FI rules over both if serious modifications are to be done to the motor......

what he said....

one thing you need to ask yourself: what do you feel more comfortable with? if you already know Carbs, you are set, they WILL WORK FINE... even on a stock engine...

if you really like the FI, see my previous post... they are around...


btw, the engine is NOT your biggest concern when looking at buying a 914... it's the body and how much RUST you will have to fix(no such thing as a rust free car, just "relatively" rust free)

engines can be fixed/bought, a good project body is hard to come by...

Uh-oh I sense an all out post war. This has been debated ad infinitum here. Do what you like and tell everyone else Personally I think if you are starting from scratch with knowledge and want a great daily driver. Go and learn FI and find an FI car. However if you have enough experience with carbs and like them don't let it hold you back.

QUOTE

Personally I think if you are starting from scratch with knowledge and want a great daily driver. Go and learn FI and find an FI car. However if you have enough experience with carbs and like them don't let it hold you back.

it sorta borderlines on "if you have to ask", then neither one is for you, until you know and understand cars, especially 30 year old cars

QUOTE

it sorta borderlines on "if you have to ask",

Isn't that what I said just nicer? I totally agree with you. I wish I knew why my FI starts and dies when cold, then starts and idles great, then once hot idles like a 327 with a .320 duration cam I am going carbs because I like em and know em, period.

it doesn't matter.

you can change from one to the other for ABOUT the same cost and effort.

if you are trying to use this ONE issue to decide whether to buy the car, you have the tail wagging the dog.

how is the RUST? how are the major systems? do the brakes work? does the transmission shift? how is the rust? are there fluid leaks? is the tub straight? is the interior decent? did you check for RUST?

there is crappy, unreliable FI and there are crappy, untuned carbs. and good examples of both.

it should be telling you something that the 914 was THE LAST car Porsche ever built with carburetors - 30+ years ago - in 1974. that said, i'll be retrofitting a set of 914.6 carbs to a much newer 911 engine for a little while. while they can make you tear your hair out getting them *really right* it is very rare for a single-point failure to take the car out of service.

but that's beside the point.

you have to make a decision about THE CAR. FI/carbs fits into the same category as the stereo or the color -- you can either learn to live with them, or you can change them, but they are secondary to whether or not you like THE CAR.

BTW - Welcome! (we seem to be forgetting to say that to the new guys...)
and it's 'Weber' ...

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ May 6 2005, 02:17 PM)

it doesn't matter. you can change from one to the other for ABOUT the same cost and effort. if you are trying to use this ONE issue to decide whether to buy the car, you have the tail wagging the dog. how is the RUST? how are the major systems? do the brakes work? does the transmission shift? how is the rust? are there fluid leaks? is the tub straight? is the interior decent? did you check for RUST?

hmm, wish I'd said that...

All things being considered drivability, maintenance, reliability, and cost are all about the same between FI and carbs. The big differences I have noticed are:

1) Original FI adds some collector value to the car
2) FI cars get better gas mileage
3) Carbed cars make more noise

I have carbs cause I like #3.

Yeah, I'm getting the picture. I figured that question would start a good debate. Kind of like asking which is better, Chevy or Ford - if you care about something like that.

I've never owned or worked on a car with carbs. If carbs were so great, manufacturers would still be using them today. But in the early 70's FI was becoming more popular on production cars, but still in the early stages of development and probably not all sorted out yet.

Many of you are right, there are more important things I should worry about on the car. I can give them a shot, and if I don't like it, it can always be changed.

Thanks for all the great info!

There is no debate.

If your car is stock, FI, if it's jacked, carbs.




M

QUOTE (jgara962 @ May 6 2005, 01:09 PM)

Yeah, I'm getting the picture. I figured that question would start a good debate. Kind of like asking which is better, Chevy or Ford - if you care about something like that. I've never owned or worked on a car with carbs. If carbs were so great, manufacturers would still be using them today. But in the early 70's FI was becoming more popular on production cars, but still in the early stages of development and probably not all sorted out yet. Many of you are right, there are more important things I should worry about on the car. I can give them a shot, and if I don't like it, it can always be changed. Thanks for all the great info!

Ford of course is better, what a silly question

Hopefully Mark D (aka McMark) will chime in on this...mostly 'cause he lives up in your area, he might be able to help you look for a solid 914...be warned, he is a FI guy (stock and aftermarket)


Trekkor also lives up in that area, however, he's a caveman and likes carbs

QUOTE (jgara962 @ May 6 2005, 03:09 PM)

If carbs were so great, manufacturers would still be using them today.  But in the early 70's FI was becoming more popular on production cars, but still in the early stages of development and probably not all sorted out yet.

Porsche started putting fuel injection on street cars with the 1969 models.

initially it was for performance and so it could be homologated into the race cars.

then with the oil embargo in the early '70s and the rise of emission standards the handwriting was on the wall for carburetors, which by definition have open float bowls vented to atmosphere (FI doesn't). it was emissions that eventually killed the carburetor, along with increasingly more sophisticated and capable electronic engine management systems. stricter noise standards were the final nail in the coffin.

there's an intrinsic performance hit with a carburetor, because you must have a venturi - you HAVE TO build a restriction into the airflow for it to work. this is one of the reasons the early MFI cars picked up between 10 and 20 HP over the comparable Weber models.

nowadays - only about 40 years after the guys at Bendix started tinkering with electronic FI, flexible, programmable systems have come down in price to the point where they are the induction system of choice for even the backyard hobbyist. programmable FI and 2 hours on a chassis dyno will have your car better dialed in than 6 months with a big box of jets and reading spark plugs.

MFI

QUOTE

even the backyard hobbyist. programmable FI and 2 hours on a chassis dyno will have your car better dialed in than 6 months with a big box of jets and reading spark plugs

unless your name is Mueller...oh wait, did I say that??

hopefully my car will be running again this weekend, I cannot believe how hard it is to find GM weatherpack connectors at the FLAPs.....

Just to add one more piece of input:

Here in Colorado, a car has to have the original emission equipment that the car was manufactured with, and be able to pass an emissions test (minimum unburned hydrocarbons/ not too rich, etc. from a chart for each car model). This alone keeps me from looking at cars with carbs. Even if the car is more than 30 years old, and has "collector plates", it must be tested every time it changes owners before new plates will be issued (I think I have those details right).

Take care,
Lorrin

QUOTE (Mueller @ May 6 2005, 03:32 PM)

I cannot believe how hard it is to find GM weatherpack connectors at the FLAPs.....

FLAPS's make their money selling replacement parts.

one of the downsides of parts getting better is that they don't need to be replaced as often, and there's no incentive for the stores to sell replacements. have you tried the Friendly Local GM Dealer? or auto-electric places?

but i hear you - i've been in PA and there are whole classes of retail stores i can't find here, much less individual parts. i am so bummed out by the general state of retail anymore - i think we do 80% of our shopping online. groceries aren't much of that percentage yet, but we probably get specialty produce delivered a couple of times a month.

and i think i am going to scream if i can't find a source for real sour cream - the east coast version is NOTHING like what i got used to out west...

QUOTE (lorrinl @ May 6 2005, 03:34 PM)

...This alone keeps me from looking at cars with carbs. Even if the car is more than 30 years old, and has "collector plates",

well - WELCOME to you too!

anyway - no problem - 914.6's came with carbs.

A couple of highjacks:

Went to Bavarian Auto Parts yesterday, looking for a 10 x 1.5 nut. Him: "We don't carry nuts or bolts" Me: when did AP stores stop carrying fasteners? Him: if I tried to stock nuts and bolts, I'd need a big warehouse. We specialize in parts. Me: ...dazed look... His partner: There's an Auto Zone up the street. Me: uhh, thanks?

And Mueller: Chevy, not Ford.

End of Highjack (from me)

Eric

QUOTE (lorrinl @ May 6 2005, 12:34 PM)

Just to add one more piece of input: Here in Colorado, a car has to have the original emission equipment that the car was manufactured with, and be able to pass an emissions test (minimum unburned hydrocarbons/ not too rich, etc. from a chart for each car model). This alone keeps me from looking at cars with carbs. Even if the car is more than 30 years old, and has "collector plates", it must be tested every time it changes owners before new plates will be issued (I think I have those details right). Take care, Lorrin

Not so much. My 72 was rebuilt in 95 with a cam, euro pistons and dual 40's - and it was still running points at the time. It went right through - twice actually.

As far as selling the car, there are ways around that as well, usually through a title transfer. Just had to do that when the xk140 was purchased.